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Seems like Armalite has positioned the AR-24 as a unique pistol
2/22/2007 10:30:03 PM
From Ernunnos member:
I just found out about the AR-24, so pardon my tardiness. I'm a CZ fan and a 1911 fan, and I would love to have a high-end version of the CZ to play with. Unfortunately, it seems like Armalite has positioned the AR-24 as a unique pistol rather than a true high-end CZ-75.
If I buy three different 1911s at three different price points, they'll all fit the same holster. They'll all take the same magazines. I can buy spare parts and tools and expect them to work with any of my 1911s. I have a huge choice in accessories and upgrades. The total cost of ownership is much lower, and I don't have to start all over every time I buy a slightly nicer 1911 from a different manufacturer. Which makes it that much easier to say, "Why not?"
I also own multiple CZs. Including lots of magazines. But the AR-24 won't take CZ magazines, so if I buy one I have to start all over, and there's no third party, so I'm dependent on one supplier. I don't know if often-replaced parts like grips and slide stops are compatible or not. Not a small issue when you consider the potential for magazine bans and firearm import bans targeting entire countries. And the potential for companies to just drop an unsuccessful product from their line.
The AR-24 looks like a mechanically great pistol, but what I really want is an AR-75. A true high-end CZ-75 that distinguishes itself through workmanship and faithfulness to the original rather than uniqueness for the sake of being unique. Oh, and a SAO trigger, or at least enough compatibility to drop a competition CZ trigger into it.
I just found out about the AR-24, so pardon my tardiness. I'm a CZ fan and a 1911 fan, and I would love to have a high-end version of the CZ to play with. Unfortunately, it seems like Armalite has positioned the AR-24 as a unique pistol rather than a true high-end CZ-75.
If I buy three different 1911s at three different price points, they'll all fit the same holster. They'll all take the same magazines. I can buy spare parts and tools and expect them to work with any of my 1911s. I have a huge choice in accessories and upgrades. The total cost of ownership is much lower, and I don't have to start all over every time I buy a slightly nicer 1911 from a different manufacturer. Which makes it that much easier to say, "Why not?"
I also own multiple CZs. Including lots of magazines. But the AR-24 won't take CZ magazines, so if I buy one I have to start all over, and there's no third party, so I'm dependent on one supplier. I don't know if often-replaced parts like grips and slide stops are compatible or not. Not a small issue when you consider the potential for magazine bans and firearm import bans targeting entire countries. And the potential for companies to just drop an unsuccessful product from their line.
The AR-24 looks like a mechanically great pistol, but what I really want is an AR-75. A true high-end CZ-75 that distinguishes itself through workmanship and faithfulness to the original rather than uniqueness for the sake of being unique. Oh, and a SAO trigger, or at least enough compatibility to drop a competition CZ trigger into it.
2/22/2007 10:47:15 PM
Correct. The AR-24 is not intended to be a copy of the CZ-75. It's intended to be a higher quality pistol with many of the same strong points, and others added.
Yes, you can buy a lot of .45s and they'll fit the same general mags. And the AR-24 fits CZ mags, and some others, quite nicely.
As to mag compatability, we'll check around and see what other mags will work in the AR-24. AR-24 mags do work in the 75s.
Parts interchangeability? It wasn't a design requirement. The problem is more subtle than it seems. If you wanted to make the guns totally interchangeable you would play hell doing it, so the CZ-Tanfoglio-etc. lines are only marginally interchangeable. Even if you got close to the correct basic dimension, what tolerances would you select? How interchangeable are parts at tolerance extremes? What happens is that reverse engineering takes a pretty long time to assure.
We'll support the pistols with parts, so rest assured that they aren't orphans.
How do they have good interchangeability on the 1911? LOTS of years of trying, and the government drawings are available. And the tight guns AREN'T totally interchangeable.
We've got plans for SA only triggers down the line.
Yes, you can buy a lot of .45s and they'll fit the same general mags. And the AR-24 fits CZ mags, and some others, quite nicely.
As to mag compatability, we'll check around and see what other mags will work in the AR-24. AR-24 mags do work in the 75s.
Parts interchangeability? It wasn't a design requirement. The problem is more subtle than it seems. If you wanted to make the guns totally interchangeable you would play hell doing it, so the CZ-Tanfoglio-etc. lines are only marginally interchangeable. Even if you got close to the correct basic dimension, what tolerances would you select? How interchangeable are parts at tolerance extremes? What happens is that reverse engineering takes a pretty long time to assure.
We'll support the pistols with parts, so rest assured that they aren't orphans.
How do they have good interchangeability on the 1911? LOTS of years of trying, and the government drawings are available. And the tight guns AREN'T totally interchangeable.
We've got plans for SA only triggers down the line.
2/28/2007 9:58:27 AM
| Originally Posted By ArmaLite: Correct. The AR-24 is not intended to be a copy of the CZ-75. It's intended to be a higher quality pistol with many of the same strong points, and others added. |
Hold up, I own 2 armalite rifles 1 in m15-a4(t) configuration and one in ar-10(t) getting ready to be sold for funds to save up for that damn new one you introduced in Guns& Ammo magazine. Are you talking about the 1985 or so-1990 versions or the newer ones? I bought a used one from the 1986 product line back in 1997 and that gun shot really well and tight targets the only reason I traded it was because I had a baby on the way and needed baby stuff. If the proof is in the ingredients I'd be glad to test one and go on record.
3/3/2007 5:26:32 PM
Hi Predator.
We don't know exactly when the Czechs switched to the cast guns. It seems to be in reaction to the price competition in Europe from the Italian guns.
We have specimens made during the Socialist years. Some of the work was good, other work was rough and polished away. Still I prefer them to the cast ones.
What a neat design.
We don't know exactly when the Czechs switched to the cast guns. It seems to be in reaction to the price competition in Europe from the Italian guns.
We have specimens made during the Socialist years. Some of the work was good, other work was rough and polished away. Still I prefer them to the cast ones.
What a neat design.
