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What's the lightest effective 12g load for home defense?
3/4/2012 7:25:40 PM
Using a double barrel shotgun, for a woman with low upper body strength, what's the easiest recoiling 12 g shells for home defense and still effective as a man/thug stopper?
3/4/2012 7:29:54 PM
Low recoil tactical buckshot.
3/4/2012 8:46:10 PM
Aguila mini shells, 1.75" avail in buckshots or slugs.
Recoils approximately equal to a .410 gauge.
Recoils approximately equal to a .410 gauge.
3/4/2012 10:59:36 PM
I don't know the situation but don't fall for the weak woman bit when it comes to recoil from a shotgun.
If a small person is healthy and over 90 pounds they can handle any 12g load with the proper weapon fitting and training. One of the best shots I've ever known was a 110 pound 5' 2" girl. She had the uncanny ability to hit anything with open sights and smoothbore slugs within 100 yards.
The recoil from a 12g standard 2 3/4" load just isn't really that much energy.
The lightest thing I'd consider would be the "Tactical" 8-ball 00 loads. But it really doesn't matter much if she's not training with that gun as much as possible.
Another point is that during a real firefight she won't feel a god-damn thing for a good 3 hours.
If a small person is healthy and over 90 pounds they can handle any 12g load with the proper weapon fitting and training. One of the best shots I've ever known was a 110 pound 5' 2" girl. She had the uncanny ability to hit anything with open sights and smoothbore slugs within 100 yards.
The recoil from a 12g standard 2 3/4" load just isn't really that much energy.
The lightest thing I'd consider would be the "Tactical" 8-ball 00 loads. But it really doesn't matter much if she's not training with that gun as much as possible.
Another point is that during a real firefight she won't feel a god-damn thing for a good 3 hours.
3/5/2012 1:50:57 AM
Originally Posted By fearme:
I don't know the situation but don't fall for the weak woman bit when it comes to recoil from a shotgun.
If a small person is healthy and over 90 pounds they can handle any 12g load with the proper weapon fitting and training. One of the best shots I've ever known was a 110 pound 5' 2" girl. She had the uncanny ability to hit anything with open sights and smoothbore slugs within 100 yards.
The recoil from a 12g standard 2 3/4" load just isn't really that much energy.
The lightest thing I'd consider would be the "Tactical" 8-ball 00 loads. But it really doesn't matter much if she's not training with that gun as much as possible.
Another point is that during a real firefight she won't feel a god-damn thing for a good 3 hours.
I don't know the situation but don't fall for the weak woman bit when it comes to recoil from a shotgun.
If a small person is healthy and over 90 pounds they can handle any 12g load with the proper weapon fitting and training. One of the best shots I've ever known was a 110 pound 5' 2" girl. She had the uncanny ability to hit anything with open sights and smoothbore slugs within 100 yards.
The recoil from a 12g standard 2 3/4" load just isn't really that much energy.
The lightest thing I'd consider would be the "Tactical" 8-ball 00 loads. But it really doesn't matter much if she's not training with that gun as much as possible.
Another point is that during a real firefight she won't feel a god-damn thing for a good 3 hours.
QFEmphasis.
Give her a shotgun with too long a length of pull, and bad stance, and even a .410 will seem horrible.
Fit the stock to her frame first, then go from there. I'm willing to bet regular Winchester 00bk from WalMart will do fine after that.
3/5/2012 4:52:33 AM
Originally Posted By Curdmugeon45:
QFEmphasis.
Give her a shotgun with too long a length of pull, and bad stance, and even a .410 will seem horrible.
Fit the stock to her frame first, then go from there. I'm willing to bet regular Winchester 00bk from WalMart will do fine after that.
on that note, a smaller framed person would probably do better with a youth model shotgun.
Originally Posted By fearme:
I don't know the situation but don't fall for the weak woman bit when it comes to recoil from a shotgun.
If a small person is healthy and over 90 pounds they can handle any 12g load with the proper weapon fitting and training. One of the best shots I've ever known was a 110 pound 5' 2" girl. She had the uncanny ability to hit anything with open sights and smoothbore slugs within 100 yards.
The recoil from a 12g standard 2 3/4" load just isn't really that much energy.
The lightest thing I'd consider would be the "Tactical" 8-ball 00 loads. But it really doesn't matter much if she's not training with that gun as much as possible.
Another point is that during a real firefight she won't feel a god-damn thing for a good 3 hours.
I don't know the situation but don't fall for the weak woman bit when it comes to recoil from a shotgun.
If a small person is healthy and over 90 pounds they can handle any 12g load with the proper weapon fitting and training. One of the best shots I've ever known was a 110 pound 5' 2" girl. She had the uncanny ability to hit anything with open sights and smoothbore slugs within 100 yards.
The recoil from a 12g standard 2 3/4" load just isn't really that much energy.
The lightest thing I'd consider would be the "Tactical" 8-ball 00 loads. But it really doesn't matter much if she's not training with that gun as much as possible.
Another point is that during a real firefight she won't feel a god-damn thing for a good 3 hours.
QFEmphasis.
Give her a shotgun with too long a length of pull, and bad stance, and even a .410 will seem horrible.
Fit the stock to her frame first, then go from there. I'm willing to bet regular Winchester 00bk from WalMart will do fine after that.
3/5/2012 8:59:49 AM
I have some Fiocchi LE 9 pellet buckshot, "12LE00BK", 1150 fps. It seems to have shorter brass, is this considered a "lighter" load?
3/5/2012 9:35:10 AM
Remington also makes" Managed Recoil" 00 bucks and slugs.
formerly known as "Reduced Recoil" shot shells.
I still recommend trying the smaller Aguila mini shells.
I use both of ammo at the range 90% of the time due to a previous shoulder injury.
That, and recoil buttstock pad helps
formerly known as "Reduced Recoil" shot shells.
I still recommend trying the smaller Aguila mini shells.
I use both of ammo at the range 90% of the time due to a previous shoulder injury.
That, and recoil buttstock pad helps
3/5/2012 10:44:56 AM
let her practice with light loads, then toss some buckshot in for HD. if she has to shoot at somebody she wont feel the recoil..
3/5/2012 11:03:21 AM
Brass length has nothing to do with recoil or the power of the shell (it did a long time ago, but not now).
Federal's 8 pellet #00, FliteControl is some of the softest shooting (perception wise) out there. Recoil is more of a push than a slap. I think it has to do with the slower burn time of the powder they use.
A shorter stock, shooting squared up, and FC 8 pellet #00 will leave her confident in taking (and making) the shot.
Federal's 8 pellet #00, FliteControl is some of the softest shooting (perception wise) out there. Recoil is more of a push than a slap. I think it has to do with the slower burn time of the powder they use.
A shorter stock, shooting squared up, and FC 8 pellet #00 will leave her confident in taking (and making) the shot.
3/5/2012 3:59:23 PM
Upper body strength doesn't really have much to do with it either besides getting the gun up. Recoil is taken through the torso and lower body if shooting correctly.
3/5/2012 11:09:19 PM
My friend's 85 pound, 15 year old daughter can shoot slugs out of my Supernova.
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3/6/2012 12:32:56 PM
Originally Posted By KNIGHTENFORCER:
Aguila mini shells, 1.75" avail in buckshots or slugs.
Recoils approximately equal to a .410 gauge.
Aguila mini shells, 1.75" avail in buckshots or slugs.
Recoils approximately equal to a .410 gauge.
Quite possibly this^. Using Aguila's published figures, I calculated the ME to be prox 980 ft lbs. Not shabby.
3/6/2012 6:15:52 PM
Originally Posted By MattNificent:
let her practice with light loads, then toss some buckshot in for HD. if she has to shoot at somebody she wont feel the recoil..
This....^^^
let her practice with light loads, then toss some buckshot in for HD. if she has to shoot at somebody she wont feel the recoil..
3/6/2012 11:02:11 PM
Originally Posted By NickySantoro:
Quite possibly this^. Using Aguila's published figures, I calculated the ME to be prox 980 ft lbs. Not shabby.
Originally Posted By KNIGHTENFORCER:
Aguila mini shells, 1.75" avail in buckshots or slugs.
Recoils approximately equal to a .410 gauge.
Aguila mini shells, 1.75" avail in buckshots or slugs.
Recoils approximately equal to a .410 gauge.
Quite possibly this^. Using Aguila's published figures, I calculated the ME to be prox 980 ft lbs. Not shabby.
ME is not any kind of measurement for determining an effective round for stopping an attacker. "What are the penetration numbers in properly calibrated ballistic gel?" is the appropriate question to ask (and metric to judge by).
3/7/2012 4:35:49 PM
Originally Posted By FMD:
ME is not any kind of measurement for determining an effective round for stopping an attacker. "What are the penetration numbers in properly calibrated ballistic gel?" is the appropriate question to ask (and metric to judge by).
Originally Posted By NickySantoro:
Quite possibly this^. Using Aguila's published figures, I calculated the ME to be prox 980 ft lbs. Not shabby.
Originally Posted By KNIGHTENFORCER:
Aguila mini shells, 1.75" avail in buckshots or slugs.
Recoils approximately equal to a .410 gauge.
Aguila mini shells, 1.75" avail in buckshots or slugs.
Recoils approximately equal to a .410 gauge.
Quite possibly this^. Using Aguila's published figures, I calculated the ME to be prox 980 ft lbs. Not shabby.
ME is not any kind of measurement for determining an effective round for stopping an attacker. "What are the penetration numbers in properly calibrated ballistic gel?" is the appropriate question to ask (and metric to judge by).
Thank you for setting me straight. Can the ARFCOM butt boys ever take a day off?
3/8/2012 12:08:44 AM
Originally Posted By NickySantoro:
Thank you for setting me straight. Can the ARFCOM butt boys ever take a day off?
no one here is going to walk away from a directupper body hit with number 8 lead at 15 feet.
Originally Posted By FMD:
ME is not any kind of measurement for determining an effective round for stopping an attacker. "What are the penetration numbers in properly calibrated ballistic gel?" is the appropriate question to ask (and metric to judge by).
Originally Posted By NickySantoro:
Quite possibly this^. Using Aguila's published figures, I calculated the ME to be prox 980 ft lbs. Not shabby.
Originally Posted By KNIGHTENFORCER:
Aguila mini shells, 1.75" avail in buckshots or slugs.
Recoils approximately equal to a .410 gauge.
Aguila mini shells, 1.75" avail in buckshots or slugs.
Recoils approximately equal to a .410 gauge.
Quite possibly this^. Using Aguila's published figures, I calculated the ME to be prox 980 ft lbs. Not shabby.
ME is not any kind of measurement for determining an effective round for stopping an attacker. "What are the penetration numbers in properly calibrated ballistic gel?" is the appropriate question to ask (and metric to judge by).
Thank you for setting me straight. Can the ARFCOM butt boys ever take a day off?
3/8/2012 9:15:35 AM
You guys are overthinking this too much, (this is not forensics or CSI )
Most home defense scenarios will be in close quarters, e.g. 5-10 yards
Even mini shells would have enough stopping power at that distance.
If you dont agree, try some for yourself at the range. You will notice the recoil (or should I say the lack of )
is negligible esp on a double barrel, and you'll have better follow up shots.
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To the OP, my advise to you is to take her to the range and start her with reduced recoil
shotshells, or mini shells if you have them. If you start her with a heavy defense load,
her shoulder might get sore or the recoil might discourage her to continue. (keyword -"might" YMMV)
I find practicing with slugs better as it makes me see where my shots are actually going.
Most home defense scenarios will be in close quarters, e.g. 5-10 yards
Even mini shells would have enough stopping power at that distance.
If you dont agree, try some for yourself at the range. You will notice the recoil (or should I say the lack of )
is negligible esp on a double barrel, and you'll have better follow up shots.
末末末末末末
To the OP, my advise to you is to take her to the range and start her with reduced recoil
shotshells, or mini shells if you have them. If you start her with a heavy defense load,
her shoulder might get sore or the recoil might discourage her to continue. (keyword -"might" YMMV)
I find practicing with slugs better as it makes me see where my shots are actually going.
3/8/2012 7:31:09 PM
At the risk of sounding like a hall monitor...
Gentlemen, this is a technical forum, not GD. Terminal ballistics is an established science, and all the loads mentioned have been studied and reported upon. If you have new information on what constitutes "effective" ammunition, take your findings over to the Ammo forum (also a technical part of this site) and see how it goes. Please leave the conjecture in GD, and don't offer something as truth without the science to back it up.
Sincerely,
an ARFCOM buttboy (whatever the hell that is)
Gentlemen, this is a technical forum, not GD. Terminal ballistics is an established science, and all the loads mentioned have been studied and reported upon. If you have new information on what constitutes "effective" ammunition, take your findings over to the Ammo forum (also a technical part of this site) and see how it goes. Please leave the conjecture in GD, and don't offer something as truth without the science to back it up.
Sincerely,
an ARFCOM buttboy (whatever the hell that is)
3/8/2012 8:43:27 PM
Originally Posted By kingfish:
Using a double barrel shotgun, for a woman with low upper body strength, what's the easiest recoiling 12 g shells for home defense and still effective as a man/thug stopper?
Using a double barrel shotgun, for a woman with low upper body strength, what's the easiest recoiling 12 g shells for home defense and still effective as a man/thug stopper?
Hmmn, easiest recoiling 12 gauge shells for home defense, I believe this was already covered in the above post.
Science:
Standard load/ Defense load 12 ga or Magnum shells = NOT easiest recoiling 12gauge load
Mini shells and "Recoil Reduced" shells = No brainer
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ETA: I dont know about you, but I've tried a lot of different kinds of 12ga loads, from LE loads to Standard to Magnums
and the only "easiest recoiling" I've ever encountered are the ones I mentioned above.
