Why is my 870 dumping its magazine follower?
Yesterday, I picked up a 870 Wingmaster Magnum 12ga. Today I took it down and gave it a good cleaning. Upon reassembly, I noticed that whenever the action was closed then opened that the follower would be released into the action (in the same manner that a shell from the magazine would be released).
When I cleaned the gun I noticed two things: The first was that the shell retainers (springs that act like magazine feed lips on a rifle and hold the next round in position in the magazine) were loose from their staking. This made installation of the trigger group a bit more difficult, but they appeared to index correctly with everything installed.
The other thing that I noticed was that the follower was absolutely filthy. covered in what appeared to be a combination of gunk, grease, and carbon fouling. Notice, before cleaning the gun didn't have the issue I am describing. Upon scraping some of the gunk off, it felt more like plastic. The follower itself appeared to be nothing more than a piece of metal pipe about an inch and a half long.
What could be causing my problem?
Please excuse me if I don't have the exact nomenclature correct for each individual part, this is my first entry into the shotgun world in my adult life.
Could the follower be wrong? From playing with the gun a few times, it appears to me that the follower should be a bit wider than the shotshells, and this is not the case.
Also, could someone post a picture of what a factory magazine follower looks like. I google searched it and I had no way of telling what was factory and what was aftermarket.
I would buy this follower just to have even if the one you have is correct. My .02 on what you said about the shell latches. First if they are loose as if about to fall out of the receiver than I would have them re-staked. Brownells sells them and it is pretty simple to do. I have staked a few for people who put their forend on with bolt and slide and didn't have the trigger group in place and that would pop them out of their staking.
Link:
http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=8867/Product/REMINGTON-STAKING-TOOL
Originally Posted By number1olddog:
I would buy this follower just to have even if the one you have is correct. My .02 on what you said about the shell latches. First if they are loose as if about to fall out of the receiver than I would have them re-staked. Brownells sells them and it is pretty simple to do. I have staked a few for people who put their forend on with bolt and slide and didn't have the trigger group in place and that would pop them out of their staking.
Link:
http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=8867/Product/REMINGTON-STAKING-TOOL
They had actually fallen out of the receiver. Currently they are held in place by the trigger assembly and pins only. Could that be the cause of the problem?
Originally Posted By Amontgomery:
Originally Posted By number1olddog:
I would buy this follower just to have even if the one you have is correct. My .02 on what you said about the shell latches. First if they are loose as if about to fall out of the receiver than I would have them re-staked. Brownells sells them and it is pretty simple to do. I have staked a few for people who put their forend on with bolt and slide and didn't have the trigger group in place and that would pop them out of their staking.
Link:
http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=8867/Product/REMINGTON-STAKING-TOOL
They had actually fallen out of the receiver. Currently they are held in place by the trigger assembly and pins only. Could that be the cause of the problem?
Doubt it. One of my 870 Wingmasters is the same way and it is perfectly reliable. Get a new follower and see what it does for ya.
Thats my current plan.
All in all, I will be pretty happy with it if that is all it takes. I only paid $245 for the thing, so $5 extra is still damn good for a hardly used 870 wingmaster magnum. It doesn't look like it has been shot much at all.
Me personally I would have them re-staked but when you order your follower I would buy some 12 gauge dummy rounds and hand cycle them and see how it does. Good luck.
It cycled great with some 3" 00 buck, only releasing one shell at a time. It just treated the follower as another round when the last shell was dropped from the tube and cycled into then out of the action. It dropped out when the bolt was in the open position, just as a fresh round should.
Double Tap
Buy the staking tool from Brownell's and restake the shell stops. No more problem. And take a look at the Scattergun Tech magazine follower. I use'm in all my 870s and swear by them.
Originally Posted By kickstart59:
Buy the staking tool from Brownell's and restake the shell stops. No more problem. And take a look at the Scattergun Tech magazine follower. I use'm in all my 870s and swear by them.
I don't see how that would fix the problem. I have an 870 Wingmaster and those two bars are not staked in it and it does not have any issues. It's his follower.
It cycled great with some 3" 00 buck, only releasing one shell at a time. It just treated the follower as another round when the last shell was dropped from the tube and cycled into then out of the action. It dropped out when the bolt was in the open position, just as a fresh round should.
Originally Posted By MagnusM4:
Originally Posted By kickstart59:
Buy the staking tool from Brownell's and restake the shell stops. No more problem. And take a look at the Scattergun Tech magazine follower. I use'm in all my 870s and swear by them.
I don't see how that would fix the problem. I have an 870 Wingmaster and those two bars are not staked in it and it does not have any issues. It's his follower.
I guess Remington just stakes them for the hell of it and it doesn't really matter either way. I understand that Mossberg does not stake theirs and they are held in place by the trigger group but if it comes from the factory that way from Remington it probably makes sense to have them re-staked. If your happy with your Wingmaster the way it is than that's fine. We are trying to give the OP our thoughts on his problem and a new follower and re-staking would probably be the best bet.
Two of my 870s do not have the latches staked and both run fine. Staking is used only to keep the latches from falling out when disassembled.
Originally Posted By Donner_und_Blitzen:
Two of my 870s do not have the latches staked and both run fine. Staking is used only to keep the latches from falling out when disassembled.
QFT
The shell latches retain the shell, not the follower.
If the mag follower is coming into the action then the problem is either with the follow (likely its worn down and needs to be replaced) or possibly the end of the magazine tube (where its brazed into the receiver) has become worn or damaged and will need to be replaced (generally a factory repair)
If its a orange or gray factory follower those parts are thin and can be easily damaged.... but since you mentioned that its a metal follow it could still be worn or damaged.
I'd start with a new magazine follower.
I ordered the Scattergun Technologies follower and spring set for a standard length tube. I'm going to test this combination in the gun when it arrives. If this doesn't correct the problem, I am going to take the gun to a smith to have the shell holders staked in place. If that doesn't fix the problem, I am going to send the gun to Remington.
I have a strong feeling it is the follower. The piece that came in the gun doesn't even look like a follower, but more like a piece of pipe that was "close enough" for some kitchen-table gunsmith. The residue on the outside of the "follower" appeared to be RTV/Gasket maker silicone, put in place randomly to make the outer diameter of the follower large enough that it wouldn't pass through the shell holders. A factory or aftermarket replacement follower should fix the issue.
I'll keep you guys updated. Thanks for all your help.
Got the Wilson Combat/Scattergun Technologies follower in today and it solved the problem.
Turns out the piece in the gun was just a piece of pipe with some silicone around the outside to make it work. When I pulled the silicone off the outside it would drop just like the next shell in line.
