Archived Posts » 59,646,491
Move ownership from individual to trust
3/31/2012 11:59:42 AM
If I have a MG on a individual stamp and now have a trust established (new LEO will not sign off) is it worth the hassle to x-fer it to a trust? Advantages/disadvantages? Do I have to involve a C3 dealer?
3/31/2012 12:16:33 PM
It'll cost you another $200 Stamp...
3/31/2012 12:22:55 PM
Originally Posted By Backnblack:
It'll cost you another $200 Stamp...
It'll cost you another $200 Stamp...
Obviously the stamp is going to cost me, it's a small price compared to the MG. I am more concerned re: the legal issues of continuity of ownership, transfer process etc, per OP.
3/31/2012 12:44:02 PM
Yes, it is worth it. Especially if you have family members on the trust.
.02
.02
3/31/2012 3:30:20 PM
The trust guys are going to swarm in here momentarily, but for me, no there would be no advantage for your currently owned and stamped items. Obviously, if the new CLEO won't sign (remember that it could also be your county/parish sheriff, city PD chief, judge, or DA to sign), all your new stuff would have to be under a trust.
The issues you will hear in favor of the trust are:
1. If you want multiple folks to access your NFA stuff, a trust is necessary
2. Some will mention estate planning (but in truth you don't need a trust to transfer tax free on a form 5 to your heirs after your death - just spell out in your valid will who gets what)
3. Best of all, you don't need to do CLEO sign off or fingerprints for future purchases under the trust
Balance those against the cost of setting up the trust and paying extra stamp taxes if you want to transfer your individually owned items to the trust now.
The issues you will hear in favor of the trust are:
1. If you want multiple folks to access your NFA stuff, a trust is necessary
2. Some will mention estate planning (but in truth you don't need a trust to transfer tax free on a form 5 to your heirs after your death - just spell out in your valid will who gets what)
3. Best of all, you don't need to do CLEO sign off or fingerprints for future purchases under the trust
Balance those against the cost of setting up the trust and paying extra stamp taxes if you want to transfer your individually owned items to the trust now.
3/31/2012 3:47:42 PM
I have a trust. All my NFA is on a trust. I wouldn't waste the $200 if your trust was only established to bypass a dickhead CLEO.
Our trust is setup so my wife and I can both have access to the NFA items and god forbid something happened while I wasn't home she could legally access the safe and get the stuff out of there. Plus if something happened to both of us, it defines my best friend as a successor trustee and beneficiary so the trust is still active and legal with no paperwork needed.
Our trust is setup so my wife and I can both have access to the NFA items and god forbid something happened while I wasn't home she could legally access the safe and get the stuff out of there. Plus if something happened to both of us, it defines my best friend as a successor trustee and beneficiary so the trust is still active and legal with no paperwork needed.
3/31/2012 5:23:54 PM
Originally Posted By TDunn:
The trust guys are going to swarm in here momentarily, but for me, no there would be no advantage for your currently owned and stamped items. Obviously, if the new CLEO won't sign (remember that it could also be your county/parish sheriff, city PD chief, judge, or DA to sign), all your new stuff would have to be under a trust.
The issues you will hear in favor of the trust are:
1. If you want multiple folks to access your NFA stuff, a trust is necessary
2. Some will mention estate planning (but in truth you don't need a trust to transfer tax free on a form 5 to your heirs after your death - just spell out in your valid will who gets what)
3. Best of all, you don't need to do CLEO sign off or fingerprints for future purchases under the trust
Balance those against the cost of setting up the trust and paying extra stamp taxes if you want to transfer your individually owned items to the trust now.
The trust guys are going to swarm in here momentarily, but for me, no there would be no advantage for your currently owned and stamped items. Obviously, if the new CLEO won't sign (remember that it could also be your county/parish sheriff, city PD chief, judge, or DA to sign), all your new stuff would have to be under a trust.
The issues you will hear in favor of the trust are:
1. If you want multiple folks to access your NFA stuff, a trust is necessary
2. Some will mention estate planning (but in truth you don't need a trust to transfer tax free on a form 5 to your heirs after your death - just spell out in your valid will who gets what)
3. Best of all, you don't need to do CLEO sign off or fingerprints for future purchases under the trust
Balance those against the cost of setting up the trust and paying extra stamp taxes if you want to transfer your individually owned items to the trust now.
He already has the trust setup.
I would transfer the items to the trust, personally.
I prefer the trust.
Once I complete my move, I will be transferring my personally owned items to my trust. I want my wife to have access to the items, as well as my family.
3/31/2012 11:34:19 PM
From my point of view, transfer them to the trust. I got into the NFA game and had prolly half a dozen suppressors and sbrs before I started looking into a trust. When I bought my 1st MG, I knew that before I even started shopping that I wanted it on a trust. 1) I wanted it to collectively be my family's MG and for my children to inherit them when I kick the bucket. 2) My family can shoot it whenever they want to, and I don't have to be around(once my kids are old enough) 3) If the feds decide to once again come after MGs, they won't try to confiscate them, they will try to make the transfer of them illegal, but if my son and daughter are on the trust, they will maintain possession for a long long time. 4) No hassle with the fingerprints, CLEO, photos, etc.
Do the transfer for sure
Do the transfer for sure
4/1/2012 10:12:33 PM
Originally Posted By andrasik:
He already has the trust setup.
I would transfer the items to the trust, personally.
I prefer the trust.
Once I complete my move, I will be transferring my personally owned items to my trust. I want my wife to have access to the items, as well as my family.
Originally Posted By TDunn:
The trust guys are going to swarm in here momentarily, but for me, no there would be no advantage for your currently owned and stamped items. Obviously, if the new CLEO won't sign (remember that it could also be your county/parish sheriff, city PD chief, judge, or DA to sign), all your new stuff would have to be under a trust.
The issues you will hear in favor of the trust are:
1. If you want multiple folks to access your NFA stuff, a trust is necessary
2. Some will mention estate planning (but in truth you don't need a trust to transfer tax free on a form 5 to your heirs after your death - just spell out in your valid will who gets what)
3. Best of all, you don't need to do CLEO sign off or fingerprints for future purchases under the trust
Balance those against the cost of setting up the trust and paying extra stamp taxes if you want to transfer your individually owned items to the trust now.
The trust guys are going to swarm in here momentarily, but for me, no there would be no advantage for your currently owned and stamped items. Obviously, if the new CLEO won't sign (remember that it could also be your county/parish sheriff, city PD chief, judge, or DA to sign), all your new stuff would have to be under a trust.
The issues you will hear in favor of the trust are:
1. If you want multiple folks to access your NFA stuff, a trust is necessary
2. Some will mention estate planning (but in truth you don't need a trust to transfer tax free on a form 5 to your heirs after your death - just spell out in your valid will who gets what)
3. Best of all, you don't need to do CLEO sign off or fingerprints for future purchases under the trust
Balance those against the cost of setting up the trust and paying extra stamp taxes if you want to transfer your individually owned items to the trust now.
He already has the trust setup.
I would transfer the items to the trust, personally.
I prefer the trust.
Once I complete my move, I will be transferring my personally owned items to my trust. I want my wife to have access to the items, as well as my family.
PLEASE READ THIS POST - I ALREADY HAVE THE TRUST ESTABLISHED. I now know it is a better legal solution. I am really looking for disadvantages (I may have missed, other that $200) of moving the single MG & whether I have to involve a C3 dealer?
4/1/2012 10:58:51 PM
No need to involve a dealer.
4/2/2012 8:56:13 AM
Originally Posted By andrasik:
No need to involve a dealer.
No need to involve a dealer.
So file the F4 with ATF as personal as seller - trust as buyer - dups as always. Thanks.
4/2/2012 2:02:03 PM
Originally Posted By hellbound:
I have a trust. All my NFA is on a trust. I wouldn't waste the $200 if your trust was only established to bypass a dickhead CLEO.
Our trust is setup so my wife and I can both have access to the NFA items and god forbid something happened while I wasn't home she could legally access the safe and get the stuff out of there. Plus if something happened to both of us, it defines my best friend as a successor trustee and beneficiary so the trust is still active and legal with no paperwork needed.
I have a trust. All my NFA is on a trust. I wouldn't waste the $200 if your trust was only established to bypass a dickhead CLEO.
Our trust is setup so my wife and I can both have access to the NFA items and god forbid something happened while I wasn't home she could legally access the safe and get the stuff out of there. Plus if something happened to both of us, it defines my best friend as a successor trustee and beneficiary so the trust is still active and legal with no paperwork needed.
I'm still waiting for somebody to come up with an example of a guy's wife getting arrested for handling his NFA items in this manner.
If a fedex guy can parade around with your NFA stuff 500 miles from your house, I don't see how your wife couldn't grab the stuff and walk it outside in the event of a fire or whatever.
Or reach into your gun safe to retrieve the family jewels with your UZI sitting there on the shelf next to the jewelry box.
That whole concept sounds like Jacoby & Meyers bullshit to me.
4/2/2012 4:04:01 PM
Originally Posted By cyborg543:
[I'm still waiting for somebody to come up with an example of a guy's wife getting arrested for handling his NFA items in this manner.
If a fedex guy can parade around with your NFA stuff 500 miles from your house, I don't see how your wife couldn't grab the stuff and walk it outside in the event of a fire or whatever.
Or reach into your gun safe to retrieve the family jewels with your UZI sitting there on the shelf next to the jewelry box.
That whole concept sounds like Jacoby & Meyers bullshit to me.
[I'm still waiting for somebody to come up with an example of a guy's wife getting arrested for handling his NFA items in this manner.
If a fedex guy can parade around with your NFA stuff 500 miles from your house, I don't see how your wife couldn't grab the stuff and walk it outside in the event of a fire or whatever.
Or reach into your gun safe to retrieve the family jewels with your UZI sitting there on the shelf next to the jewelry box.
That whole concept sounds like Jacoby & Meyers bullshit to me.
It looks like you are voulenteering to be the test case...
I can just see some one writing the ATF about this one and now there will be a new letter out to clairify.
Clear as mud. I am going the trust route just so I am better Safe than Sorry...
MAHA
4/2/2012 4:26:24 PM
Originally Posted By Mahamotorworks:
It looks like you are voulenteering to be the test case...
I can just see some one writing the ATF about this one and now there will be a new letter out to clairify.
Clear as mud. I am going the trust route just so I am better Safe than Sorry...
MAHA
Originally Posted By cyborg543:
[I'm still waiting for somebody to come up with an example of a guy's wife getting arrested for handling his NFA items in this manner.
If a fedex guy can parade around with your NFA stuff 500 miles from your house, I don't see how your wife couldn't grab the stuff and walk it outside in the event of a fire or whatever.
Or reach into your gun safe to retrieve the family jewels with your UZI sitting there on the shelf next to the jewelry box.
That whole concept sounds like Jacoby & Meyers bullshit to me.
[I'm still waiting for somebody to come up with an example of a guy's wife getting arrested for handling his NFA items in this manner.
If a fedex guy can parade around with your NFA stuff 500 miles from your house, I don't see how your wife couldn't grab the stuff and walk it outside in the event of a fire or whatever.
Or reach into your gun safe to retrieve the family jewels with your UZI sitting there on the shelf next to the jewelry box.
That whole concept sounds like Jacoby & Meyers bullshit to me.
It looks like you are voulenteering to be the test case...
I can just see some one writing the ATF about this one and now there will be a new letter out to clairify.
Clear as mud. I am going the trust route just so I am better Safe than Sorry...
MAHA
I'm going to have to write ATF and ask. There's no point in arguing a gross speculation, except to say that this "wife knowing the combination to gun safe" thing makes no sense on the face of it and has all the usual earmarks of goofy gunshop yaketty yak.
You guys honestly think that your wife just knowing a safe combination would be seen as an illegal transfer of an NFA gun? Come on.
4/3/2012 8:59:57 AM
Originally Posted By cyborg543:
I'm going to have to write ATF and ask. There's no point in arguing a gross speculation, except to say that this "wife knowing the combination to gun safe" thing makes no sense on the face of it and has all the usual earmarks of goofy gunshop yaketty yak.
You guys honestly think that your wife just knowing a safe combination would be seen as an illegal transfer of an NFA gun? Come on.
Originally Posted By Mahamotorworks:
It looks like you are voulenteering to be the test case...
I can just see some one writing the ATF about this one and now there will be a new letter out to clairify.
Clear as mud. I am going the trust route just so I am better Safe than Sorry...
MAHA
Originally Posted By cyborg543:
[I'm still waiting for somebody to come up with an example of a guy's wife getting arrested for handling his NFA items in this manner.
If a fedex guy can parade around with your NFA stuff 500 miles from your house, I don't see how your wife couldn't grab the stuff and walk it outside in the event of a fire or whatever.
Or reach into your gun safe to retrieve the family jewels with your UZI sitting there on the shelf next to the jewelry box.
That whole concept sounds like Jacoby & Meyers bullshit to me.
[I'm still waiting for somebody to come up with an example of a guy's wife getting arrested for handling his NFA items in this manner.
If a fedex guy can parade around with your NFA stuff 500 miles from your house, I don't see how your wife couldn't grab the stuff and walk it outside in the event of a fire or whatever.
Or reach into your gun safe to retrieve the family jewels with your UZI sitting there on the shelf next to the jewelry box.
That whole concept sounds like Jacoby & Meyers bullshit to me.
It looks like you are voulenteering to be the test case...
I can just see some one writing the ATF about this one and now there will be a new letter out to clairify.
Clear as mud. I am going the trust route just so I am better Safe than Sorry...
MAHA
I'm going to have to write ATF and ask. There's no point in arguing a gross speculation, except to say that this "wife knowing the combination to gun safe" thing makes no sense on the face of it and has all the usual earmarks of goofy gunshop yaketty yak.
You guys honestly think that your wife just knowing a safe combination would be seen as an illegal transfer of an NFA gun? Come on.
FAIL - you are trying to apply common sense to government, the ATF at that.
