Thermal vs. PVS-14 - my initial impression.

I have a Gen III PVS-14 that I use for hunting purposes. I have had it a year now and am very familiar with it's use under a variety of conditions.

I just bought a brand new FLIR HS-324P 340x240 viewer. My first reaction was "this thing sucks!". You can't see details. It is big and bulky. And, the field of view is small. Then, I went on 2 mile night walk on a trail near my house surrounded by fields with both my PVS-14 and the HS-324P. The thermal camera was amazing at finding all sorts of rabbits and squirrels in the bushes and fields that I could not see with my PVS-14. It also really does well detecting people walking around at considerable distances. They stand out like crazy. I like the fact that you also don't have to worry about pointing it at bright lights.

My initial conclusions:

The PVS-14 is really good at seeing things.
The HS-324P is really good at seeing LIVING things.

It seems to me you need both. The PVS-14 is incredible for situational awareness and knowing what terrain is out there. It is easy to use on the move and the field of view is large. The PVS-14 seems to me to be best as the primary vision system that tells me what areas I want to examine with the thermal viewer. The HS-324P isn't great for these things. But, it is amazing if you want to know whether or not a living thing is in an area of concern you have identified with the PVS14. At all distances the thermal viewer radically out performed the PVS14 for detection purposes. Especially when there was cover involved.

These are my rookie initial impressions. I would be interested in comments from more experienced users to see how far off base I am.

I'm currently building my own multi-spectural riflescope because of the limitations you are speaking off, just waiting on some tooling to arrive to finish it up and I will post images.
The thermal is an old caddy thermal I bought for around $600 and its image is combined with a super low lux camera and ir illuminator.

The Camera and IR illuminator with a quality f1.2 lens can provide vision easily out to 500 yards. When the thermal is combined into that image nothing can hide.

I have been using higher end NV for over 15+ years and just ordered my first thermal this last summer a FLIR PS32. After using the thermal all fall I don't know how I could get by without it. I have found myself using the thermal for scanning ahead of me detecting living critters and then following up with NV for more detail. When using the thermal this way the 1x lens on the ps32 works pretty well for detecting targets 300 to 400+++ yards away. My buddy has a FLIR 307 I really like the image clarity it has a longer ranges compared to my ps32 1x system. The bad thing for his 307 is my ps32 is a lot smaller for carrying/packing and works better in the woods/brush with the 1x lens bigger fov. I have thought alittle about buying a 2x or 3x thermal rifle scope that also has the E-zoom to double that Mag to 4x or 6X for longer range shooting, but I already own a Nighthawk 4X scope with pinnacle tube which is mostlikey a better night vision shooting system in most conditions plus super rugged/tough. After alot of thought lately I think I maybe better off using a thermal mono for scanning/detecting and the NV rifle scope for follow up and shooting. I think this system would best met my needs even though a thermal weapon sight is just way to cool overall. Now I am always looking to buy more/upgrade my Nightvision gear so over the next serval months I plan on first building myself a L3 gen 3 filmless mono and then maybe buying another thermal of some sort. On the thermal I am back and forth on a FLIR M24 (640x480) or a FLIR 307. I am keeping my PS32 since it works very well and is so light/small for carrying in my fanny pack so am thinking the 307 might be real nice having a thermal system with longer range lens. I am still am not ruling out some sort of thermal weapon scope if I can find one I like in my price range.

Thanks Terry. I looked real, real hard at the 307 and the PS32. I ended up getting the HS-324P for two reasons:

1. I wanted replaceable batteries for a dual use item (hunting + SHTF)
2. Close in capability. I was worried the 7 degree field of view on the 307 would be unusable at close distances.

Based on your experience, would you say the 307 is unusable at close distance for an urban area in a SHTF situation? I plan to get the 2x lens for the 324P I purchased to extend the range. But, I am second guessing myself as to whether I should have just bought the 307 instead.

P.S. The guys at US Nightvision think there will be a 2x lens for the PS32 very soon if you are interested.

Yep I also looked at the H-324/M-24/PS32 when picking a thermal mono this summer I mainly went with the PS32 do to low priceing for a 320x240 system and small size for ease of carrying my my fanny pack. Overall I am happy with the PS32 unit the main concern I had was the internal battery like everyone else when buying. So far the battery has been a great as far as rechargeing its super handy and no battery cost plus I have never ran it dead yet even after being out all night several times If it last 5+ years like my Iphone battery has then I guess I will mail it back to FLIR for a new one if ever needed . A quick tip for field rechargeing the PS24/32 you can buy a USB battery pack for around $30 that is very small and plugs into the PS24/32 for extra charge I bought one but havent needed it so far. The 307 does have a much more narrow FOV vs the 19mm lens on my PS32. I much perfer the 19mm lens up close in woods or brush areas. Still you can get by with the 307 in timber if needed its just not as easly/quick to scan with at closer ranges. In the hay fields around here the 307 really rocks when viewing targets at 100-150 yards you can see alot more detail its almost like the 307 is a 640x480 system(I know its not) when compared side by side my PS32 at the same range I can just tell its a deer/hog/coyote at best. It seems to me that the bigger lens on the 307 helps see detail and improves the clarity alot. A 2X lens on my PS32 would be great I hope FLIR makes one this year.

Is the PS32 really 1x magnification? My M24 is more like 0.7-0.8x magnification (objects appear further away than they really are).

I think you are right its alittle less than 1X. Is your M-24 a 640x480 If so does that increased pixel help you any at longer range clarity or do you still feel a bigger lens like the 307 would be more of a plus for longer range viewing? Thanks for any info!

we have a larger handheld thermal at our pd.

it works ok for out in the woods trying to spot someone that is still. the contrasts stand out much more than with NV.

for obversation targets in the dark i prefer my pvs-14. better range and field of vision. also MUCH easier to carry and use. i might change my mind if our thermal was one of the new handheld units. but for the cost it's hard to justify

I opted for the 320x240 on my M24 to keep the cost down. Considering how the device is typically employed for initial target location, with follow-up PTI and engagement via I^2, the enhanced resolution did not seem like it would provide benefit commensurate with cost. I figured that the $$$ would be better spent on a magnifying lens once they became available, which it appears as they now have from that "other" related thread.

I have also tried the 640x480 M24 independently, although my friend and I have not yet had the opportunity to run the two side-by-side; that will be a most interesting comparison. I would imagine the 640 to be damn nice with an optical magnifier, but the combined cost is getting up there pretty high for my budget.

I have also used a 307 in the field, but again not side-by-side with the M24. It is really an apples-to-oranges comparison. The 307 is superb at extended range, but arguably not quite so good at closer range. It is also comparatively large/heavy, which is just fine when mounted, but when dismounted the form factor of the M24 seems beneficial to simply carry in a PVS-14-sized pouch of which I have a few. With a 3x mag for the M24, it would seem to provide quite good versatility.

The battery comparison is again non-analogous. The 24 uses 123s at about 3-3.5 hours life; the 307 uses AAs at close to 5 hours for rechargeables, and somewhat less than that for alkalines. 4x lithium AAs are a whole lot more expensive than a pair of 123s, and field change is significantly different between the models. Again, if mounted up the issue is a non-consideration as external power source can be applied for the 307, but not the 24.

I haven't worked too much with the vid capture/output capability on any of these devices, but I do know that my PC doesn't have the correct app to view the vids that I captured with a 307C. Again, this is something that another member or two and I plan to become much more knowledgeable on in the near future. Fancy this thought....the M24 uses the same ocular lens assembly as the PVS-14, and in yet another thread on this great forum there is discussion of USNV's iPhone adapter. Pretty sure that y'all can see where that discussion might be headed.

How would you compare the viewing capabilities of the M24 with the 3X lens to the 307 for hunting situations?

Thanks.

Copyright © 1996 - 2013 :: AR15.Com LLC :: All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.