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Is an autogated tube worth the 1k premium?
5/5/2012 4:07:58 PM
Hey all -
I was looking at TNVC's offerings and he has some sales going on the Gen 3 D-740's, A couple of questions:
Is a Litton tube the same as an L3? I will be shooting at higher recoil impulses so no Pinnacles, is the Litton GTG for recoil?
I have a buddy who uses an IR illuminator, he will be shooting in the same field of view as I intend to be looking through the D-740.
Non-autogated is probably not a good idea, but brief subjection to the IR light spillage shouldn't burn the tube....
The autogated model, while 1k more than the Gen 2 HP, is it sophisticated enough to handle saturation with IR light and no be damaged at all.
Im talking BOSCH AEGIS type levels of IR light output ... or oncoming headlights from a range vehicle... How much is too much?
Lastly, is there no such thing as an autogated Gen 2 HP or plus (+) ?
Thx,
BB
I was looking at TNVC's offerings and he has some sales going on the Gen 3 D-740's, A couple of questions:
Is a Litton tube the same as an L3? I will be shooting at higher recoil impulses so no Pinnacles, is the Litton GTG for recoil?
I have a buddy who uses an IR illuminator, he will be shooting in the same field of view as I intend to be looking through the D-740.
Non-autogated is probably not a good idea, but brief subjection to the IR light spillage shouldn't burn the tube....
The autogated model, while 1k more than the Gen 2 HP, is it sophisticated enough to handle saturation with IR light and no be damaged at all.
Im talking BOSCH AEGIS type levels of IR light output ... or oncoming headlights from a range vehicle... How much is too much?
Lastly, is there no such thing as an autogated Gen 2 HP or plus (+) ?
Thx,
BB
5/5/2012 8:51:49 PM
Litton tubes are L3 tubes. As for autogated power supplies, they do work well while dimming down at the same time while not losing resolution like the standard ABC (Auto Brightness Control). ITT warranties their tubes at 500g's and below (basically 5.56 and below). L3 tubes have stood up well up to .308.
As for burning tubes, it's really difficult to do even with NON AG unless you train your unit onto a high beam of light for a period of time. The most danger of burn usually comes from mounting a monocular behind a RDS with too bright of setting. This is usually the #1 cause of tube reticle burn.
AS for Gen 2 SHP, if you're thinking about that, bet the M845 to save even more. The Litton Gen2 tube tubes in these systems are fantastic and you can save even more $$. Only disadvantage is of course, you have 2.5x vs. 4x with the D-740. Overall though, the M845 bar none is the BEST bang for your $$ vs. resolution. I cannot say enough about how good these units perform for the money.
Vic
As for burning tubes, it's really difficult to do even with NON AG unless you train your unit onto a high beam of light for a period of time. The most danger of burn usually comes from mounting a monocular behind a RDS with too bright of setting. This is usually the #1 cause of tube reticle burn.
AS for Gen 2 SHP, if you're thinking about that, bet the M845 to save even more. The Litton Gen2 tube tubes in these systems are fantastic and you can save even more $$. Only disadvantage is of course, you have 2.5x vs. 4x with the D-740. Overall though, the M845 bar none is the BEST bang for your $$ vs. resolution. I cannot say enough about how good these units perform for the money.
Vic
5/5/2012 9:08:57 PM
I have been running a Pinnacle 740 on my 6.8 for quite some time without issue, but many would suggest that combination to be borderline.
I have also looked through some very nice L3-tubed 740's, and they are arguably more recoil tolerant, particularly with higher HALO.
While the M845 is "only" Gen2, it produces a very respectable image and is quite a bit more economical....great value! When the moon isn't big, or if there is overhead cover from trees and/or clouds, supplemental active IR will be beneficial with such a system.
LED-based IR seems to be substantially diffuse enough so as not to "burn" tubes unless exposure times are very extended and static; it is the more collimated sources that one should be more concerned with.
I have also looked through some very nice L3-tubed 740's, and they are arguably more recoil tolerant, particularly with higher HALO.
While the M845 is "only" Gen2, it produces a very respectable image and is quite a bit more economical....great value! When the moon isn't big, or if there is overhead cover from trees and/or clouds, supplemental active IR will be beneficial with such a system.
LED-based IR seems to be substantially diffuse enough so as not to "burn" tubes unless exposure times are very extended and static; it is the more collimated sources that one should be more concerned with.
5/5/2012 11:17:15 PM
Can a 3x magnifier be used behind the M845 without a substantial loss of brightness and resolution?
The majority of our shots are at the 200 yard mark, we have very skiddish hogs
So the only tubes that have an autogated power supply are the 3G correct, or are you saying the M845's ABC is an equivalent?
Is the ELV Torch considered a coliminated IR light source?
BB
The majority of our shots are at the 200 yard mark, we have very skiddish hogs
So the only tubes that have an autogated power supply are the 3G correct, or are you saying the M845's ABC is an equivalent?
Is the ELV Torch considered a coliminated IR light source?
BB
5/6/2012 12:09:52 AM
I am not envisioning a reasonably practical way to run a 3x optical magnifier in conjunction with an M845, nor would I expect it to provide particular practical benefit.
I have shot with an M845 at 100y range, and it was quite effective, but do not have significant enough experience at longer ranges to offer a valid assessment. It would seem to be a reasonable conclusion that Gen3 would be better than Gen2 at longer ranges, particularly in circumstances when less ambient light is available.
Try not to get too hung up on high magnification though, as we routinely engage 8" steels at 300y using 740's prepping rigs for hog hunting, and 4x mag is plenty.
Highly collimated devices is a reference to lasers versus LED illuminators such as the ELR-V.
In general, I have found I^2 devices to be quite robust in terms of both physical and exposure considerations, so long as one doesn't do stupid things like look at the sun, run behind a non-NV calibrated illuminated reticle day optic, drop off a 3-story building, or run a PVS-14 on high recoil weapon systems, etc. Common sense should prevail, but they are not Faberge eggs.
I have shot with an M845 at 100y range, and it was quite effective, but do not have significant enough experience at longer ranges to offer a valid assessment. It would seem to be a reasonable conclusion that Gen3 would be better than Gen2 at longer ranges, particularly in circumstances when less ambient light is available.
Try not to get too hung up on high magnification though, as we routinely engage 8" steels at 300y using 740's prepping rigs for hog hunting, and 4x mag is plenty.
Highly collimated devices is a reference to lasers versus LED illuminators such as the ELR-V.
In general, I have found I^2 devices to be quite robust in terms of both physical and exposure considerations, so long as one doesn't do stupid things like look at the sun, run behind a non-NV calibrated illuminated reticle day optic, drop off a 3-story building, or run a PVS-14 on high recoil weapon systems, etc. Common sense should prevail, but they are not Faberge eggs.
5/6/2012 1:18:56 AM
Murderman has very sound advice here.
The 845 will work well at 200 yards and in, with smaller targets, anything past this is tough due to the 2.5x magnification. I know I'm being conservative here vs. others what they can see and shoot at.
Also, using the ELR Torch will be of great benefit and will NOT burn your tube. 
With that said, saving for a Gen 3 is always a great idea, you will never really be disappointed.
Vic
The 845 will work well at 200 yards and in, with smaller targets, anything past this is tough due to the 2.5x magnification. I know I'm being conservative here vs. others what they can see and shoot at.
Also, using the ELR Torch will be of great benefit and will NOT burn your tube.
With that said, saving for a Gen 3 is always a great idea, you will never really be disappointed.
Vic
5/6/2012 12:21:25 PM
Very good info Gentlemen,
BB
BB
5/6/2012 9:17:09 PM
Vic -
PM Sent
PM Sent
5/6/2012 9:37:40 PM
Originally Posted By Bennybone:
Vic -
PM Sent
Vic -
PM Sent
Did not see it? My PM is NOT full...
It was for a time...
5/6/2012 9:46:06 PM
I fixed that 
5/7/2012 12:22:19 PM
Where would a Gen2HP D-760 from Night Optics fit into this conversation? How much light ampification would be lost due to the 6x vs. the 4x vs the 2.5x?
