Optics Worthy of my M1A Super Match

Note: The Armory could benefit from general optics and ammunition forums. There are such forums under AR14, but what if you are not in the market for an Aimpoint or match .223?

I have just started looking for a scope for my Springfield Armory M1A Super Match. I have to say that I am completely overwhelmed by the innumerable options in the optics market.

I am looking for something near the peek of the quality/cost curve, but do not want to spend more on the scope than I did on the rifle. My search criteria are:
1. 500+ yds., but I am not likely to be taking an 1,000 meter shots.
2. Durable and reliable. It should be able to hold a zero through reasonable abuse, but I am not going tactical with it.
3. Ballistic reticle calibrated for 7.62 NATO 149GR FMJ or 308 WIN(7.62 NATO)147GR FMJBT
4. Reasonable features, but I do not need a microcomputer for a scope.

I would appreciate your recommendations.

Thank you.

I would go with the nikon M-308 if it was my Supermatch...

http://www.nikonhunting.com/products/riflescopes/m-308

it's all relative without knowing your budget. $1500 is probably near the top of the cost/value curve.

I really prefer a FFP optic when shooting long range.
For under a grand, I'd look at a vortex viper PST 4-16x50mm. Above that, the next price bracket is nightforce.
How far you will be shooting really means nothing. It's about how much magnification you can afford or prefer. Some guys have no issue shooting a fixed 10x at 1k and some guys, like myself, would prefer 20-25x even for as close as 600m.
Don't forget rings and bases. You can't get by with $30 rings when you spend this kind of dough on optics. I like seekins rings.

Need more info...

Also, the default optics forum is the precision rifle subforum in the armory.

Thanks, guys. Good advice.

Moderator: OK to move this to Precision Rifles forum, if you desire.

Before you even delve into optics on a M1A, you have to decide on a mount. It's a difficult platform to put optics on.

There are better scope mount options if you don't care if it blocks your iron sights. If you still need to be able to use Irons without removing the scope/mount, then you're a bit more limited.

Sadlak is a great mount, but not cheap. ARMS is OK.

Then, you WILL need a cheek rest if you don't have a stock with an adjustable-height comb.

Scope ring height will be dependent upon the size of your scope. On an M1A, the closest point to the scope will usually be the rear sight - so you will want to measure there once you decide on a scope.

Is $1500 your budget for just the optic, or inclusive of the scope mount and rings as well?

Thanks for the advice.

I am already pretty much sold on a Sadlak mount. I think I am going with steel because there is no sense worrying about that kind of weight on a Super Match, and I am told the steel is supposed to hold a better zero than the aluminum.

I am pretty comfortable with the rise of the oversized stock as is. I was thinking about starting with a leather pad for cheek weld. I don't think I will need much more rise. But if so, should be able to add another piece of wool under the pad. Old School!

I do not plan on switching between scope and sights. The higher the scope mount, the more difficult the ballistics. So, I am OK with the scope being as low as practical (considering the case ejection characteristics).

My budget will be whatever my budget needs to be to buy quality once. A higher price simply translates to a longer delay in the purchase. I think I should be able to get a quality, capable, respectable setup for $1,500 all-inclusive. But, if it needs to go up, then it can go up.

Thanks

If that's the case, then you should describe what you are looking for in a scope.

FFP or SFP?
Magnification high end?
Magnification low end?
Need Zero Stop?
What type of reticle?
Turrets (Mil, MOA, IPHY)?
Illumination?
How rugged (bench gun versus hunting, etc)?
Going to be shooting in low light conditions?
etc...

Answers to those would be important to know before I could suggest anything specific.

Brands that you can't go wrong with on a higher budget include Nightforce, US Optics, Schmidt & Bender, Premier, Vortex (Razor)... but they will all start at >$1400 unless you go with used.

[Edited to correct, after some research]
I am currently trapped in NJ, but I do have plans for making my escape sometime in the next 5 to 7 years.
Here in NJ, I can only shoot on a state licensed range. Breaking sporting clays at 200 yds from bench-rest on a windy day is about as wild and crazy as it is going to get for now. However, I do not want to let my current situation drive my purchase. I want to buy something I can use when I eventually make it out of here and into Free Territory in the West.

• FFP or SFP—FFP.


• Magnification high end—20 +/-


• Magnification low end—6 +/-


• Need Zero Stop—Yes.


• What type of reticle—a ballistic reticle that can be calibrated for .308 out to 800 or 1,000 yds/meters.


• Turrets (Mil, MOA, IPHY)—Either IPHY or MOA. Most charts are in MOA, but MOA ~= IPHY at 500 yds


• Illumination—Nice feature to have. Willing to pay a little extra for it, but not a must-have either.


• How rugged (bench gun versus hunting, etc)—I do not want a scope classified as benchrest. It needs to be rugged enough to take into the field after I escape from NJ.


• Going to be shooting in low light conditions—Not a hunting rifle. A large objective would be nice to have, but not a must-have.


• Adjustable parallax/eye relief would be a nice to have.


• Removable UV/haze filter would be a nice to have. I would rather the filter take the scratch than the objective.

Lots to consider. If you cannot tell, this is my first purchase.
Thanks again for your help.

Don

Given the above, I'd probably consider the following:

On the lower end (decent quality), a Vortex Viper PST 6-24x50 MOA should work for you and meet all your requirements.

Going with better quality that meet ALL your requirements, a Vortex Razor 5-20x50 with EBR 1/2/3 reticle in MOA will be a great choice.

Technically not ballistic reticles, but you can use them as such if you do the math beforehand.


If you're adamant about getting all of those and being exact, US Optics is the place to go as you get a custom-built scope. Look at the SN-3 line. Should run under $3K.

Some other options that meet most of your requirements:

Nightforce NXS 3-15x50 F1 - has it all except the ballistic reticle and the higher magnification. However, if you want to sacrifice FFP for SFP, you can get a ballistic reticle in a NF, and step up to a 5.5-22x50 (or 56).

S&B PMII 5-20x50 (or 56) as well as Premier 5-20x50 (or 56) will also work, but you're into the $3K+ range now.


My notes:

I'm not a fan of the ballistic reticles unless you're *only* using the scope for hunting. It's tied to a particular caliber (well, velocity) and won't give you pinpoint accuracy. Learn to use a TMR/MLR-type reticle instead. MOA if that's your bag.

IMO, get one of the two Vortex optics I initially recommended. Both are good options with lifetime warranties. The Razor will cost you about $2K, and the PST FFP will run about half that. Better quality in the Razor, more adjustment, 34mm tube, better reticle, better glass and it comes with scope rings. Both hold resale value well if it turns out that you use one and find that you want to try something else out instead.

Thank you Sir. You are a gentleman and a scholar.
I will certainly take your advice to heart.
I'll have to talk to the wife about the extra $$. Maybe we'll make it a Father's Day present from the kids.

a leupold 3x9 or the like. Unless you get better ammo to throw downrange any popular hunting scope will work.

What kind of mount??? You must have a decent mount on a m1a before wasting money on a scope

Leuplod mark 4 10x.

Sadlack makes a nice mount. Just be sure to get rings of similar quaility.

Thats what my setup is.

Are Leuplod scopes rugged enough to take into the field.
No plans for tactical training or anything abusive like that. But I don't want to have to worry about babying a bench-rest scope either.

Leupold scopes are fine. The thing is that they are overpriced for what you get. You can get a better scope for the same money. The only way I'd get a Leupold is if you were to find a killer deal on one...

How do I calculate what height rings to buy?
For a 50mm objective on a M1A, would it be medium or high?
I am going with a Sadlak mount.

couldn't say for sure on an M1A but on my remington 700, I have medium rings and i still have room under a 50mm obj with butler creek lens caps

I'd go with the Sadlak mount - I had an ARMS #18 on an M1A and I also liked it.

Here's a Leupold Mark4 LR/T 4.5-14x50 with Leupold rings/bases on my Remington Target Tactical ..... nice scope ...... got it new for about $900 from my local dealer as part of the gun package.

Nice setup on the 700.
I have been cruising the concinment and estate sellers for a 700 for some time.

Does that Leupold have zero stop? I am trying to match features with the NF NXS that I am considering.

My math for a 50mm objective: calculating the center of the ring as the rise + 1/2 the tube diameter, says I am OK even with low rise rings.
0.885" + 0.5 * 1.18" = 1.47" rise from the Sadlak mount to the centerline of the tube.
OD of objective end is 59mm = 2.32"
That leaves me over 0.3"

So:
1. The lower the mount the better,
2. The Sadlak already gives me enough rise to clear the ejection trajectory and to use the sights under the mount,
I am going with the low rise (0.885") rings unless someone tells me my math is wrong.

Thoughts?

Most hardcore M1A guys will recommend the Bassett Machine mount for the Sringfield rifles. I was given that advice over on M14TFL by the experts, and boy were they right. This thing is rock solid and mounted right in line with the action. I could not get an ARMS mount on paper.

The Bassett mount is a good mount if you're a bench shooter and won't be carrying the rifle around, hunting or shooting matches. Bassett = single-point attachment. Sadlak = multi-point attachment. The Bassett is also easier to remove (if you forsee yourself removing the scope mount much). Cost can also play a factor.

Downside to the Basset mount is that your rings are mounted at a 45 degree angle, so your scope will not be perfectly above the boreline unless you measure carefully and purchase appropriate rings - if that's the sort of thing that bugs you.

I think the bigger problem is that the Springfield rifles receiver spec vary from rifle to rifle, so multi point attached mounts using the dovetail can be a royal pain to get on paper. I can say that my Bassett is pretty rock solid even though it is a single point mount. 400 rds so far with no shift in POI. And you're right, it is a very good value for what you get.

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