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Rail Road ties as a back stop
4/26/2012 12:11:50 AM
what are the thoughts on this?
I was thinking of setting up a pistol only range. 50 feet or so and using rail road ties stacked about 4 feet tall and 3 rows wide
I can put dirt in behind the ties to keep them upright.
4/26/2012 12:30:45 AM
I wouldn't do it. A good berm should be made of sand or dirt because they self regenerate. The dirt/sand will collapse and refill the hole the bullet made - that won't happen with railroad ties. 
How old are the railroad ties?
How old are the railroad ties?
4/26/2012 1:21:32 AM
I used railroad ties to build a backstop. Stacked them on top of each other and formed a big U shape. Then I built a wall at the end of the U (actually a squared off U) about a foot from the back wall with 3/4 treated plywood and treated 4x4's. I then filled the space in with a few tons of peat gravel. Then I filled in the rest of the U with several tons of dirt to shoot into. Was a lot of work, but has held up well.
4/26/2012 2:02:13 AM
Once you shoot enough into it, watch your head.
I have woods behind me, and over the years I've felled a few big oaks just by shooting them. Most were longer distance and rifle rounds, or 50 or 100 yards , and a .22lr.
I had one big oak behind the house that I was shooting with handguns for a couple of years. Mostly lead. Well, one day I stepped out back and set up a target. I was checking a new load in a .45acp. I pulled the trigger and the damn thing ricocheted back into my house.
I thought for a minute and figured it must have hit a knot or another bullet that was lodged in there. No real chance of that happening twice in a row, especially if I moved the target a bit lower.
So, I pulled the knife out, and positioned the target lower, and stuck the knife into the target and the tree and went back to my position.
I took aim, focused on the front sight, BRASS, Son of a Beotch that hurt like hell Another one, this time it hit me in the effing head. Left a big knot. Looked like a hornet stung me. A 225gr LSWC hornet.
I have since shot the tree down, but with rifle fire.
Don't use wood, unless you are going to dig every last round out.
I have woods behind me, and over the years I've felled a few big oaks just by shooting them. Most were longer distance and rifle rounds, or 50 or 100 yards , and a .22lr.
I had one big oak behind the house that I was shooting with handguns for a couple of years. Mostly lead. Well, one day I stepped out back and set up a target. I was checking a new load in a .45acp. I pulled the trigger and the damn thing ricocheted back into my house.
I thought for a minute and figured it must have hit a knot or another bullet that was lodged in there. No real chance of that happening twice in a row, especially if I moved the target a bit lower.
So, I pulled the knife out, and positioned the target lower, and stuck the knife into the target and the tree and went back to my position.
I took aim, focused on the front sight, BRASS, Son of a Beotch that hurt like hell Another one, this time it hit me in the effing head. Left a big knot. Looked like a hornet stung me. A 225gr LSWC hornet.
I have since shot the tree down, but with rifle fire.
Don't use wood, unless you are going to dig every last round out.
4/26/2012 9:29:42 AM
Originally Posted By the_great_mantis:
I wouldn't do it. A good berm should be made of sand or dirt because they self regenerate. The dirt/sand will collapse and refill the hole the bullet made - that won't happen with railroad ties.
How old are the railroad ties?
I wouldn't do it. A good berm should be made of sand or dirt because they self regenerate. The dirt/sand will collapse and refill the hole the bullet made - that won't happen with railroad ties.
How old are the railroad ties?
they are the ones you buy from landscapers, they are older ones taken off by the railroad and sold off
4/26/2012 2:32:37 PM
If you look at most any range, including high end ranges, you'll almost always see dirt berms as the back stop.
That's because there's really nothing better to catch bullets without allowing ricochets.
Using things like railroad ties subject the backstop to deterioration from bullet strikes and allow ricochets once the wood gets a build up of bullets. Eventually you'll have to tear the ties out and replace them.
Plain old dirt doesn't degrade so it needs no maintenance and no matter how many rounds you shoot into it, you don't get bullets bouncing around.
That's because there's really nothing better to catch bullets without allowing ricochets.
Using things like railroad ties subject the backstop to deterioration from bullet strikes and allow ricochets once the wood gets a build up of bullets. Eventually you'll have to tear the ties out and replace them.
Plain old dirt doesn't degrade so it needs no maintenance and no matter how many rounds you shoot into it, you don't get bullets bouncing around.
4/26/2012 3:21:38 PM
A second way would be to use old tires stacked in rows and filled with sand/dirt.
CD
CD
4/26/2012 4:49:11 PM
Originally Posted By Combat_Diver:
A second way would be to use old tires stacked in rows and filled with sand/dirt.
CD
there is an idea. The dirt out there is thin and rocky so I was trying to avoid hauling dirt in but I'd rather do it right than risk a ricochet for sure
A second way would be to use old tires stacked in rows and filled with sand/dirt.
CD
4/26/2012 7:55:42 PM
Originally Posted By skunk-ape:
Originally Posted By Combat_Diver:
A second way would be to use old tires stacked in rows and filled with sand/dirt.
CD
there is an idea. The dirt out there is thin and rocky so I was trying to avoid hauling dirt in but I'd rather do it right than risk a ricochet for sureA second way would be to use old tires stacked in rows and filled with sand/dirt.
CD
If you don't like bullets bouncing back off railroad ties, you're really going to hate bullets bouncing back off old steel belted tires.
As mentioned earlier, use the railroad ties or old tires as support for your berm......but not as the actual backstop.
[<末末-fill material here............you shoot from here末末末>X
4/26/2012 8:08:56 PM
Originally Posted By DogtownTom:
If you don't like bullets bouncing back off railroad ties, you're really going to hate bullets bouncing back off old steel belted tires.
As mentioned earlier, use the railroad ties or old tires as support for your berm......but not as the actual backstop.
[<末末-fill material here............you shoot from here末末末>X
Originally Posted By skunk-ape:
Originally Posted By Combat_Diver:
A second way would be to use old tires stacked in rows and filled with sand/dirt.
CD
there is an idea. The dirt out there is thin and rocky so I was trying to avoid hauling dirt in but I'd rather do it right than risk a ricochet for sure
A second way would be to use old tires stacked in rows and filled with sand/dirt.
CD
If you don't like bullets bouncing back off railroad ties, you're really going to hate bullets bouncing back off old steel belted tires.
As mentioned earlier, use the railroad ties or old tires as support for your berm......but not as the actual backstop.
[<末末-fill material here............you shoot from here末末末>X
no, I understood what you meant
stack a row of tires and then dump dirt on top of them, filling inside and covering them with dirt.
the tires will act as a filler and hold it all together
good idea
4/26/2012 8:17:25 PM
I used all my old tires filled with dirt and sand in a u shape. seems to work pretty well since when I shoot I do not see any impact marks in the field behind my house.
4/27/2012 2:24:36 AM
I used ties for about 4 years before they had to be replaced. The weather did more to them then the actual bullets, but once they start to go they go quickly. I never had any issue with ricochets. They work fine for a recreational shooter in the proper environment. Ask any other questions.
4/28/2012 1:10:01 AM
Originally Posted By Combat_Diver:
A second way would be to use old tires stacked in rows and filled with sand/dirt.
CD
A second way would be to use old tires stacked in rows and filled with sand/dirt.
CD
This. That's what I have in North Wisco, works great.
ETA: higher power rounds, anything above 223. Under that just shoot at the ties, they can handle a 22 Mag without an issue.
4/30/2012 8:28:49 AM
I would put the tie walls up but put the dirt berm IN FRONT of them, not behind.
5/1/2012 10:14:14 PM
I use my wood pile as a back stop at 100' but I always get bullets bouncing back. In fact I got a window knocked out in my shed and I have found bullets on my roof. If you use wood as a back stop you WILL get bullets coming back on you.
5/1/2012 11:44:08 PM
Originally Posted By skunk-ape:
no, I understood what you meant
Originally Posted By DogtownTom:
If you don't like bullets bouncing back off railroad ties, you're really going to hate bullets bouncing back off old steel belted tires.
As mentioned earlier, use the railroad ties or old tires as support for your berm......but not as the actual backstop.
[<末末-fill material here............you shoot from here末末末>X
Originally Posted By skunk-ape:
Originally Posted By Combat_Diver:
A second way would be to use old tires stacked in rows and filled with sand/dirt.
CD
there is an idea. The dirt out there is thin and rocky so I was trying to avoid hauling dirt in but I'd rather do it right than risk a ricochet for sureA second way would be to use old tires stacked in rows and filled with sand/dirt.
CD
If you don't like bullets bouncing back off railroad ties, you're really going to hate bullets bouncing back off old steel belted tires.
As mentioned earlier, use the railroad ties or old tires as support for your berm......but not as the actual backstop.
[<末末-fill material here............you shoot from here末末末>X
no, I understood what you meant
stack a row of tires and then dump dirt on top of them, filling inside and covering them with dirt.
the tires will act as a filler and hold it all together
good idea
Thats not what I mean't.
Using railroad ties or filled car tires as the "core" of your backstop is absolutely not as good as what I diagrammed above. You need several feet of dirt/sand/gravel/clay/etc to COMPLETELY absorb the impact of the bullet.
Railroad ties/filled tires are to provide "sidewalls" to prevent any round from penetrating beyond the impact zone. They also keep your fill material in place. Dumping fill on top of tires is going to give you a hill with little value as a safe backstop. Using filled tires or ties in the core is going to cause some rounds to bounce right back at you.
5/2/2012 12:41:33 PM
Originally Posted By Chris_1522:
I would put the tie walls up but put the dirt berm IN FRONT of them, not behind.
I would put the tie walls up but put the dirt berm IN FRONT of them, not behind.
I concur. Use the ties as a means to support and contain the dirt backstop.
5/2/2012 3:54:45 PM
The range where I first started shooting used ties to make boxes at 25yds and 50yds, and then built a wall of ties at 100yds with dirt behind it, followed by attaching mine belt across the front of the backstop. In theory it worked and looked good for a few months. Then the fudds at the range would start to complain that they are spending too much money and time replacing ties. The ties were free and they were replaced on range days. They tried to prohibit semi-auto's at that point but eventually it was struck down. .45's being shot at the 25yd backstop were the majority of the issues...
CMS
CMS
5/2/2012 4:17:56 PM
Originally Posted By cms81586:
The range where I first started shooting used ties to make boxes at 25yds and 50yds, and then built a wall of ties at 100yds with dirt behind it, followed by attaching mine belt across the front of the backstop. In theory it worked and looked good for a few months. Then the fudds at the range would start to complain that they are spending too much money and time replacing ties. The ties were free and they were replaced on range days. They tried to prohibit semi-auto's at that point but eventually it was struck down. .45's being shot at the 25yd backstop were the majority of the issues...
CMS
The range where I first started shooting used ties to make boxes at 25yds and 50yds, and then built a wall of ties at 100yds with dirt behind it, followed by attaching mine belt across the front of the backstop. In theory it worked and looked good for a few months. Then the fudds at the range would start to complain that they are spending too much money and time replacing ties. The ties were free and they were replaced on range days. They tried to prohibit semi-auto's at that point but eventually it was struck down. .45's being shot at the 25yd backstop were the majority of the issues...
CMS
And that range probably got the OPs 5 years worth or round in month or two. For a personal range they work just fine if it constructed in well thought out manner.
5/2/2012 5:28:03 PM
Originally Posted By BobRoberts:
And that range probably got the OPs 5 years worth or round in month or two. For a personal range they work just fine if it constructed in well thought out manner.
Originally Posted By cms81586:
The range where I first started shooting used ties to make boxes at 25yds and 50yds, and then built a wall of ties at 100yds with dirt behind it, followed by attaching mine belt across the front of the backstop. In theory it worked and looked good for a few months. Then the fudds at the range would start to complain that they are spending too much money and time replacing ties. The ties were free and they were replaced on range days. They tried to prohibit semi-auto's at that point but eventually it was struck down. .45's being shot at the 25yd backstop were the majority of the issues...
CMS
The range where I first started shooting used ties to make boxes at 25yds and 50yds, and then built a wall of ties at 100yds with dirt behind it, followed by attaching mine belt across the front of the backstop. In theory it worked and looked good for a few months. Then the fudds at the range would start to complain that they are spending too much money and time replacing ties. The ties were free and they were replaced on range days. They tried to prohibit semi-auto's at that point but eventually it was struck down. .45's being shot at the 25yd backstop were the majority of the issues...
CMS
And that range probably got the OPs 5 years worth or round in month or two. For a personal range they work just fine if it constructed in well thought out manner.
I agree...just stating that they work fine as long as you understand they will need replaced periodically. For a private range, you could probably get away with not changing out the ties very often. Some day I'll build my own range with the same setup.
5/4/2012 9:06:45 AM
[bold]Originally Posted By DogtownTom:[/bold]
If you don't like bullets bouncing back off railroad ties, you're really going to hate bullets bouncing back off old steel belted tires.
If you don't like bullets bouncing back off railroad ties, you're really going to hate bullets bouncing back off old steel belted tires.
Yes, the OP will probably get as many ricochets with handgun rounds and tires as he would with RR ties.
At my club, we use ground up tire material covered by thin conveyor belts to hold them in place. It stops .308 in less than 6" with no ricochets. I don't know how much the material costs, but if my club bought it, it has to be cheap! When I move and build my own outdoor range, I'm definately looking into it. I've seen pics of outdoor dirt ranges at training facilities with the same pieces of ground tire dumped on top about 4-5" thick to keep dust dowm.
