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Another I found a possible NFA item..
1/19/2011 4:13:08 PM
My friends dad bought a WWII Grenade launcher at a rummage? His dad contacted someone that was looking at buying it, and they said it was worth $1500, but hasn't replied back to him. I don't have much info except it is a small piece, like 2 feet.
Main question, is this a NFA regualted item? Does he need to be worried?
Thanks for any info.
Main question, is this a NFA regualted item? Does he need to be worried?
Thanks for any info.
1/19/2011 4:58:06 PM
If you know the type, or have a photo, it would help a lot... Not much from WW2 in the GL catagory though... GROG
1/19/2011 8:08:54 PM
As Grog says, there really aren't any "grenade launchers" from WWII that are classified as firearms, let alone DDs.Based on your description, if it's from WWII, then it's likely not a grenade launcher. If it's a grenade launcher, then it likely isn't WWII. Grenade launchers from WWII, by and large, were simply muzzle attachments designed to fit over a rifle barrel and are usually not considered firearms.
Be very careful how you proceed. Your description of a 2-foot tube, whatever it is, does indeed sound like you have a Destructive Device, regardless of era. If this is a DD and is not already registered, then it cannot registered at this stage and is contraband, it cannot be legally possessed.
Be very careful how you proceed. Your description of a 2-foot tube, whatever it is, does indeed sound like you have a Destructive Device, regardless of era. If this is a DD and is not already registered, then it cannot registered at this stage and is contraband, it cannot be legally possessed.
1/20/2011 11:34:25 AM
Thanks for the info, I will try to get more info.
1/21/2011 1:45:53 AM
Depends on what it is AND if it is a NFA regulated item.
They were grenade launchers/light mortars from WW2 - pretty much all the major countries had (at least) one.
If I had to guess (given that it IS from ww2 and that it IS a GL) my first guess would be a Brit/Commonwealth PIAT. Which, if it was ever registered as an NFA/DD then you would have to do the transfer paperwork.
My second guess would be a Jap "Knee Mortar" - which isn't for firing from a knee or really a mortar but a light or heavy grenade launcher. These ARE NFA items.
Then again, it may be NOTHING, OR it may have been DEACTIVATED to BATFE standards or even a DEWAT (Deactivated War Trophy).
I found this on the internet, good luck on if it is valid or not though:
They were grenade launchers/light mortars from WW2 - pretty much all the major countries had (at least) one.
If I had to guess (given that it IS from ww2 and that it IS a GL) my first guess would be a Brit/Commonwealth PIAT. Which, if it was ever registered as an NFA/DD then you would have to do the transfer paperwork.
My second guess would be a Jap "Knee Mortar" - which isn't for firing from a knee or really a mortar but a light or heavy grenade launcher. These ARE NFA items.
Then again, it may be NOTHING, OR it may have been DEACTIVATED to BATFE standards or even a DEWAT (Deactivated War Trophy).
I found this on the internet, good luck on if it is valid or not though:
The "DEWAT" (DEactivated WAr Trophy) program was discontinued many years ago. If look at gun
magazines from the 1950's and 1960's you will see ads for Dewats which were working machine guns
that had the barrels tack welded to the receivers, and plugs welded in the barrels. In those good old
day they were considered non-firearms and could be ordered direct thru the mail. It didn't take long
for people to start cutting welds and rebarreling and so the Dewats were classified as machine guns
but you were able to keep them if you registered them. The "last call" amnesty of 1968 was also the
last call to register Dewats.
ATF no longer uses the term Dewat and now uses "serviceable" and "un-serviceable". Both are
machine guns and subject to all of the red tape and registration, the main difference being that the
transfer tax on an un-serviceable gun is only $5. However, most Dewats have a value nearly identical
to working guns because they can legally be reactivated and made into shooters if the proper red tape
is taken care of.
You cannot deactivate an unregistered machine gun and register it as an unserviceable gun. And
while its true that heavily welded-up machine guns are pretty much a lost cause to re-activate, that
has never stopped the ATF from considering such guns (should they so desire) to be considered machine
guns.
I know its all confusing, but an easy rule of thumb is just to remember that there is a fixed number
of registered machine guns and no more can be added. All of the true original guns were registered
no later than 1968. From 1968 to 1986 new manufacture guns were made, sold, and registered, but
these were not original (obviously) but rewelds and copies. The door was shut tight and locked in 1986
and no new guns have been added to the registry since then.
The high prices - buying original vintage machine guns is like buying art - are due to an ever increasing
number of collectors competing for the same fixed number of registered, transferable, and therefore
own-able guns.
magazines from the 1950's and 1960's you will see ads for Dewats which were working machine guns
that had the barrels tack welded to the receivers, and plugs welded in the barrels. In those good old
day they were considered non-firearms and could be ordered direct thru the mail. It didn't take long
for people to start cutting welds and rebarreling and so the Dewats were classified as machine guns
but you were able to keep them if you registered them. The "last call" amnesty of 1968 was also the
last call to register Dewats.
ATF no longer uses the term Dewat and now uses "serviceable" and "un-serviceable". Both are
machine guns and subject to all of the red tape and registration, the main difference being that the
transfer tax on an un-serviceable gun is only $5. However, most Dewats have a value nearly identical
to working guns because they can legally be reactivated and made into shooters if the proper red tape
is taken care of.
You cannot deactivate an unregistered machine gun and register it as an unserviceable gun. And
while its true that heavily welded-up machine guns are pretty much a lost cause to re-activate, that
has never stopped the ATF from considering such guns (should they so desire) to be considered machine
guns.
I know its all confusing, but an easy rule of thumb is just to remember that there is a fixed number
of registered machine guns and no more can be added. All of the true original guns were registered
no later than 1968. From 1968 to 1986 new manufacture guns were made, sold, and registered, but
these were not original (obviously) but rewelds and copies. The door was shut tight and locked in 1986
and no new guns have been added to the registry since then.
The high prices - buying original vintage machine guns is like buying art - are due to an ever increasing
number of collectors competing for the same fixed number of registered, transferable, and therefore
own-able guns.
1/21/2011 2:10:49 AM
Originally Posted By William_lxix:
Depends on what it is AND if it is a NFA regulated item.
They were grenade launchers/light mortars from WW2 - pretty much all the major countries had (at least) one.
If I had to guess (given that it IS from ww2 and that it IS a GL) my first guess would be a Brit/Commonwealth PIAT. Which, if it was ever registered as an NFA/DD then you would have to do the transfer paperwork.
My second guess would be a Jap "Knee Mortar" - which isn't for firing from a knee or really a mortar but a light or heavy grenade launcher. These ARE NFA items.
Then again, it may be NOTHING, OR it may have been DEACTIVATED to BATFE standards or even a DEWAT (Deactivated War Trophy).
I found this on the internet, good luck on if it is valid or not though:
Depends on what it is AND if it is a NFA regulated item.
They were grenade launchers/light mortars from WW2 - pretty much all the major countries had (at least) one.
If I had to guess (given that it IS from ww2 and that it IS a GL) my first guess would be a Brit/Commonwealth PIAT. Which, if it was ever registered as an NFA/DD then you would have to do the transfer paperwork.
My second guess would be a Jap "Knee Mortar" - which isn't for firing from a knee or really a mortar but a light or heavy grenade launcher. These ARE NFA items.
Then again, it may be NOTHING, OR it may have been DEACTIVATED to BATFE standards or even a DEWAT (Deactivated War Trophy).
I found this on the internet, good luck on if it is valid or not though:
The "DEWAT" (DEactivated WAr Trophy) program was discontinued many years ago. If look at gun
magazines from the 1950's and 1960's you will see ads for Dewats which were working machine guns
that had the barrels tack welded to the receivers, and plugs welded in the barrels. In those good old
day they were considered non-firearms and could be ordered direct thru the mail. It didn't take long
for people to start cutting welds and rebarreling and so the Dewats were classified as machine guns
but you were able to keep them if you registered them. The "last call" amnesty of 1968 was also the
last call to register Dewats.
ATF no longer uses the term Dewat and now uses "serviceable" and "un-serviceable". Both are
machine guns and subject to all of the red tape and registration, the main difference being that the
transfer tax on an un-serviceable gun is only $5. However, most Dewats have a value nearly identical
to working guns because they can legally be reactivated and made into shooters if the proper red tape
is taken care of.
You cannot deactivate an unregistered machine gun and register it as an unserviceable gun. And
while its true that heavily welded-up machine guns are pretty much a lost cause to re-activate, that
has never stopped the ATF from considering such guns (should they so desire) to be considered machine
guns.
I know its all confusing, but an easy rule of thumb is just to remember that there is a fixed number
of registered machine guns and no more can be added. All of the true original guns were registered
no later than 1968. From 1968 to 1986 new manufacture guns were made, sold, and registered, but
these were not original (obviously) but rewelds and copies. The door was shut tight and locked in 1986
and no new guns have been added to the registry since then.
The high prices - buying original vintage machine guns is like buying art - are due to an ever increasing
number of collectors competing for the same fixed number of registered, transferable, and therefore
own-able guns.
magazines from the 1950's and 1960's you will see ads for Dewats which were working machine guns
that had the barrels tack welded to the receivers, and plugs welded in the barrels. In those good old
day they were considered non-firearms and could be ordered direct thru the mail. It didn't take long
for people to start cutting welds and rebarreling and so the Dewats were classified as machine guns
but you were able to keep them if you registered them. The "last call" amnesty of 1968 was also the
last call to register Dewats.
ATF no longer uses the term Dewat and now uses "serviceable" and "un-serviceable". Both are
machine guns and subject to all of the red tape and registration, the main difference being that the
transfer tax on an un-serviceable gun is only $5. However, most Dewats have a value nearly identical
to working guns because they can legally be reactivated and made into shooters if the proper red tape
is taken care of.
You cannot deactivate an unregistered machine gun and register it as an unserviceable gun. And
while its true that heavily welded-up machine guns are pretty much a lost cause to re-activate, that
has never stopped the ATF from considering such guns (should they so desire) to be considered machine
guns.
I know its all confusing, but an easy rule of thumb is just to remember that there is a fixed number
of registered machine guns and no more can be added. All of the true original guns were registered
no later than 1968. From 1968 to 1986 new manufacture guns were made, sold, and registered, but
these were not original (obviously) but rewelds and copies. The door was shut tight and locked in 1986
and no new guns have been added to the registry since then.
The high prices - buying original vintage machine guns is like buying art - are due to an ever increasing
number of collectors competing for the same fixed number of registered, transferable, and therefore
own-able guns.
The being said, the PIAT is not a DD.
1/21/2011 3:11:27 AM
Panzerfaust ?
1/27/2011 2:53:02 AM
The Germans and frogs called their mortars "Grenade Launchers." If it's about 2' long it is a Mortar! That said, it is also required to be registered as a DD. Depending on what it is, there should be markings on the tube such as L.Gr.Mle 37 for the frog 50 mm.
Sarge
Sarge
2/1/2011 10:42:12 AM
Okay I finally got the info on what it is. It is a "Type 2 rifle grenade launcher"
Pic from wiki below.
So is this NFA? and if not any idea on its worth, I guess its in great shape.
Wiki Page
Pic from wiki below.
So is this NFA? and if not any idea on its worth, I guess its in great shape.
Wiki Page
2/1/2011 12:01:59 PM
Not NFA.
There is a replica on gunbroker that isn't selling at the moment for $550.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=214264342
I would guess $1000 to a motivated buyer/collector.
Best of luck.
There is a replica on gunbroker that isn't selling at the moment for $550.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=214264342
I would guess $1000 to a motivated buyer/collector.
Best of luck.
2/1/2011 1:26:02 PM
You could throw a post on BOCN. I'm sure there are a lot of guys there that can give you more specific info, and a good solid value of the item. GROG
2/1/2011 3:53:48 PM
Thanks for the info.
