The life of your Machine Gun

What is the name of the form that lists where your MG has lived?


Has someone here done this and learned something interesting about one of their toys?


Thanks

There is no "form" that list where your MG has lived, been etc...

however you can do a Freedom Of Information Act (FOIA) request for your MG. Basically you'll get back copies of redacted information of Form 3s, Form 4s, and if you are lucky enough a copy of the orginal Form 2 or Form 1.

Here is what I found out:
I submitted a FOIA request, and this is the basic information I received back. What I can gather from the information, the MG was made 1 month prior to the 5/16/1986 ban. It had one owner that got the gun in 1987 and I was the next owner after that.

Basically they "blacked out" almost everything except the dates and serial number.

MG is a PAWS, Olympic Arms P03XXA serial number range, My history total of 8 pages

Page 8
Form 2 dated 4-18-86 . Also on the F2 it's marked Re-Manufactured basically OA receiver being converted by PAWS, almost all info is blacked out except model, type, SN, and dates

Page 7
Form 3 approved date Feb 10 1987

Page 6
Back of a Form 4 that is page 5, date of INDV and CLEO signature is 3-12-87, has a Recieved stamp of MAR 25 1987 on it.

Page 5
Front of a Form 4 that is page 6, date of SOT signature 3/9/87, Type of firearm is Machinegun Receiver, Date approved May 1 1987 by sp? Stephen E. Niggins

Page 4
Front of a Form 4 only, Type of firearm says Machinegun, Overall 7.87", first time a length of any kind listed. Date of SOT signature is March 25, 2008, Date approved May 12 2008 by Dawn Henson

Page 3
Form 3 From Length of Barrel 10.5" Overall 29" Date of SOT signature is July 9, 2008, Date approved July 17 2008 by Dawn Henson

Page 2 and 1 are my Form 4, I find it interesting that for mine it has Length of Barrel 20" Overall 39" and came that way, of course I have since upgraded it to M4 style. BTW the gun parts were all old looking in the gun. I put in Colt FCG but haven't changed out the other stuff. There were no little marks or anything on the receiver, I've had it for 2 years now and I have a few little marks on it from normal wear, I wonder if the previous owner actually used it much or if the dealer or previous owner I bought the gun from put it together to sell it as a package instead of a receiver?



And here is what I used:
This is information I found on another website, however I updated it with the current up to date address.

Link to Sample FOIA request letter:
http://www.machinegunboards.com/forums/lofiversion/index.php/t5587.html

And the ATF site on FOIA request.
http://www.atf.gov/about/foia/

Here is what I sent, edited my info out Stuff in Bold.
_______________________________________________
NAME
123 Maple AVE
Anytown, NM zip code
(800) 555-1234 cell, (888) 555-1234 work

06/15/2010

VIA FACSIMILE – (202) 648-9619

Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives
Disclosure Division
Averill P. Graham (Division Chief)
99 New York Avenue, NE, Room 1E-400
Washington, DC 20226 USA

Subject: Information Request Pursuant to Freedom of Information Act (FOIA)

Dear Sir or Madam:

I, Full Name, social security number SSN, residing at 123 Maple AVE, Anytown, STATE zip code, hereby request, pursuant to the Freedom of Information Act, that you provide me with all information and copies of all documents related to the firearm(s) specified below, that is, on information and belief, a machinegun (as defined by 26 U.S.C. § 5845(B)) registered in the National Firearms Registration and Transfer Record:

- Machine Gun, Model: ZX16A1, Serial Number: P03xxA, Manufacture: Olympic Arms

I am seeking a copy of all information currently in the possession of your agency with regards to the above described gun, including the weapon history report.

I also understand that certain personal information on records relating to the National Firearms Registration and Registration Record are exempt from disclosure under FOIA. To the extent possible, please provide me with copies of such records redacted to remove the exempt information.

I hereby agree to pay all search and duplication fees in the amount of up to $100. If you estimate fees will exceed this amount please contact me. I am making this request as an individual, seeking information for personal use and not for a commercial use, which I believe makes me an "all other requestor" for purposes of calculation of such fees. In support of the preceding sentence, I submit that I currently have no intention of selling the firearm(s) described above and therefore any information obtained by virtue of this request letter would not contribute any significant pecuniary gain to me.

I declare under penalty of perjury (pursuant to 28 USC 1746) that I am Full Name and to the best of my knowledge that I am the current lawful owner of the machinegun(s) described above, the information set forth in this letter is true and correct, and that I understand the penalties provided in 5 U.S.C. 552a(i)(3) for requesting access to records under false pretenses.

Please let me know if there is anything else I can do to accommodate your processing of my information request.

Respectfully,
/Signed/

I've done a bunch of FOIAs for my MGs.

For my Colt M16A1, fer instance, I learned that it was "born" (Form 2 filed by Colt) on March 7, 1978, so I know exactly when to have the birthday party each year.

It went directly from Colt to a police department (Form 5) on May 12, 1978, and left law enforcement service (another F5) on Nov. 23, 1993 to an FFL/SOT dealer. That dealer, in turn, transferred it to my dealer (Form 3) on Jan. 12, 1994, who transferred it to me (Form 4) on Oct 4, 1994. So other than the dealers, there have been two owners –– the LE agency and me.

Names of registered owners, including the names of FFLs and LE agencies, are removed from the documents when you submit an FOIA request. All you get are dates, and the types of forms, but you can learn a lot from that. You also get the original tech specs for the MG when it was manufactured.

Do you remember what the Fee was to do the look up?

It did not cost anything, other than the stamp to mail the letter to ATF.

Under federal law, the first two hours of research are free. In reality, an FOIA request for an NFA firearm's history will almost always take less than that.

I use a form letter which states,

"I understand that the first 2 hours of search time are free. I am willing to pay up to $50 should more time be required. If you anticipate that the search time will cost me more than $50, please notify me at [insert your name and complete mailing address here], and I will make a decision whether to proceed with my request at that time. Also, please send all correspondence regarding this request to me at that same address."

I have done several and never has the time required resulted in my paying one cent.

HTH.

I used Shermantor's format (above) on my recent request. Took just over a month door to door. No charge.

i really want to do this, just to see what i will get back. but, would i have to change anything if i got my MG through a trust, rather than a CLEO sign off?

You would have to slightly change the wording of the request letter, stating your name etc. and that you are writing on behalf of the trust, of which you are the (insert trust title)....

That is correct, if you click on the link I posted to the sample letter I used, they have how to do it for a trust also. However my info for contacting the ATF might be more updated, the most up to date info is the link I posted to the ATF site.

ok, before i send it off, this is the paragraph which states im the Trustee of the Revocable trust i have. let me know if you see anything wrong with it:


I declare under penalty of perjury (pursuant to 28 USC 1746) that I am MY NAME, that I am the Trustee of the MY NAME REVOCABLE TRUST (the "Company"), that this letter is submitted on behalf of the Company, and to the best of my knowledge the Company is the current lawful owner of the machinegun(s) described above and the information set forth in this letter is true and correct and that I understand the penalties provided in 5 U.S.C. 552a(i)(3) for requesting access to records under false pretenses.



Everything seem ok? any ideas?

Thanks for the info. I received my request back today and found my MG was born 13 days before the ban and I was the first form 4. I will have to take it to the range on its birthday.

Tony;

One question occurs to me- Who actually does this research?

If it's some poor clerk in Washington, that's fine. If it's the Examiners that are trying to process our Forms, then I'm not too sure it's a good idea to file a bunch of these so you guys can sit around in pointy hats and blow out the birthday candles for your favorite playtoy.

Thanks for the bump,

My FOIA is getting mailed today.

Mine were done by some poor clerk in Washington. Her voice sounded familiar, and I wouldn't be surprised if she was one of the former examiners who stayed behind when NFA branch moved to W.Va.

In that case, file away! It sounds like a good occupation for someone who would rather stay in Washington than go to West (By God) Virginia.

i guess its nice to know your toys heritage, but if one ever comes up Transfered wrong or something....your FKD.
id rather not know then risk my investment.

Whatever.

But FWIW, the person who did mine was about as low on the federal payroll as you can go, and sounded like she was not even aware that an NFA item was a gun. There is no way in Hades she would be able to recognize a paperwork error, and no one saw the FOIA report except her.

Also worth noting: In the past, when ATF has discovered that a presample had been transferred as transferable, standard procedure is that if this is discovered during the application process, the Form 4 is denied and it remains the property of the last registered owner, whether or not he has an FFL. They will, in effect, "grandfather" it to the last owner, although like all presamples, it can only be transferred in the future to someone who holds a valid FFL.

To me, I would rather know now if one of my transferables is actually a presample, so that I would not sell it and then have to deal with an irate buyer if it gets rejected. Plus, the only time I sell NFA is to use the $$$ immediately for something else, and I don't want to refund the $$$ three, four or six months from now. So I like to know exactly what I own.

Your Mileage May Vary.

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