Looking at an Action Arms Model B Uzi. Have questions... Saw it. Final update.

I've found a seller local to me with an Action Arms Model B full size Uzi for sale. What is the desirability of these models with respect to the other variants and how much should I be paying for a base gun? Assuming this is not a factory gun, what conversions were done on them and what should I be looking for?

What other things should I be asking about? TIA, I know nothing technical about Uzis.

I think your best bet is browse through UZItalk.com
Lots of references up there.

One thing you have to make sure before buy is to check the existence of barrel restrictive ring.
If that gun still retained the semi-auto barrel ring then run away....

Check the receiver inside for wear.
Parts kit were dirt cheap like $150 a set now they cost arm & leg.

Good luck! UZI is built like a tank and very desirable.

Yup, the barell ring, make sure its not a married bolt, or just a reg. bolt.

Take some photos and post them here...

It's not the barrel restrictive ring that you need to look for it's the blocking bar. The barrel restrictive ring can be removed and a SMG barrel used. The blocking bar needs to stay if it was not removed as part of the initial conversion. The best way to tell if it still has it would be to see that the bolt has a channel in it for the bar.

Restrictor ring needs to stay, too, if it's a registered bolt conversion.

Thanks for the replies so far. I went over to UziTalk and they have plenty of pictures so I now understand the differences. What that site does not explain are the possible reliability issues associated with the various conversions. Does a bolt slotted for the blocking bar or a bolt cut for the barrel retaining ring alter reliability/durability of the conversion? Or are these more desirabilty/parts commonality issues?

A slotted bolt means that either (A) the bolt itself is the registered item, or (B) that bolt is married to the registered receiver –– you can't switch to another caliber, so the great .22RF and .45 conversions are out. Federal law does not even allow you to replace the bolt in case of wear or damage, because when you machine the replacement bolt to work in FA, you are manufacturing a new, post-1986 machine gun (the bolt itself).

The best is either a conversion to full SMG spec, or a Vector SMG, which was manufactured from the beginning as an SMG. These can use all mil-spec replacement parts, can use all the caliber conversions, and are most highly valued by buyers and owners.

Under federal law the partially converted guns cannot now be converted to full SMG spec, so you have to hunt for parts, or modify them, which most folks consider a PITA ... and the market values them lower than a full SMG spec Uzi.

No, 'AR-Head' is correct. The ring CAN be removed.
See ATF letter:
http://www.titleii.com/bardwell/atf_letter46.txt

You can do everything to make it SMG spec EXCEPT remove the bolt blocking rail.

I just spoke to the FFL doing the consignment and it's a factory Vector built from the Action Arms receivers. I'm taking a look this afternoon. What would be a competitive price for just a gun such as this?

Huh? Vector SMGs were all built on virgin Group Industries receivers, not Action Arms receivers.

FWIW, lately excellent-condition Vector SMGs are going for $6.8-7.5k, depending on accessories. And they seem to move pretty quickly –– just like the way the M16 market has turned around in the last year, Uzis are selling like gangbusters, too, and at higher than last year's prices.

Guess I have to take a closer look...The owner that I spoke with didn't know anything technical about the gun and his ad described it as a "Action Arms Model B". The consigning FFLsaid it was a Vector build, from receivers caught in some closure or something else, which would describe the Group Industries situation. The price is $6400 with mags, extra barrel, top covers, so it sounds as if the price is fair assuming a legit Vector build.

Thanks for the tips, I'll follow up later.

It is an Action Arms registered receiver conversion by S.A.W. of Nashville, TN. The barrel restrictor remains and the trunnion has not been bored out. The blocking bar has been removed, so the bolt is not slotted, but it has been bored out to accomodate the restrictor ring. I don't know what to think at this point. If it was truly a Vector I was going to buy it on the spot for $6400 with accessories. Now I'm not so sure...It's probably a good shooter, but I think I'd be SOL on a 22lr conversion kit. I suppose I could have the conversion barrels modified to fit easy enough, but the restrictor would have to be modified to fit a full auto bolt.

I dunno, is it worth it?

Maybe ... and maybe not.

First, as noted in the letter referenced above, ATF has in the past allowed owners of transferable Uzis to remove the restrictor ring and bore out the trunnion. (Though it is worth noting that a letter from Tech Branch is only legally introducible in court by the person to whom it is addressed. And if is not uncommon for other individuals to write Tech Branch and get a completely different answer, even when you include a copy of the original letter.)

Now, having that work done –– if you decide to –– would cost maybe a couple hundred bucks, plus insured shipping both ways. Add in another hundred or so for FA-spec bolt, barrel, etc ... and you are around the cost of a Vector that does not need any work.

A second issue –– and again, I'm paranoid about this stuff –– is that S.A.W. of Nashville, Tenn. is not a well-known builder, and you do not know how they filed the original Form 2 to build it. Back then, it also was not uncommon for both Form 1s and Form 2s to include cover letters explaining how the semi would be/have been converted to full-auto. So there is a chance that S.A.W. converted by slotting the bolt, notified ATF of the fact, and a later owner removed the blocking bar on his own ... which turns it into contraband and thus open to confiscation, if ATF were ever to check the MG itself, and then crosscheck its own records.

Yeah, I know, a long shot. But buying a gun that was an SMG from bare receiver –– like a Vector –– avoids that whole issue. And I'm really into playing it safe when it comes to $6-7k+ investments.

Your Mileage May Vary.

I would pass. Buy a vector and forget about it. Tony k makes good sense . Or if you can buy it for 5k- then get it and don't look back or ask aft any questions!

I never would have thought that somebody could turn M11s into M60s either via paperwork games, so when it really comes down to it, anything is possible. Thanks for taking the time to answer all the questions. Maybe I need to look elsewhere for a first SMG.

This hobby we share certainly has some strange nuances.

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