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Minimum OAL for Hornady 55gr V-max W/C
3/30/2012 1:36:22 PM
Can anybody with a Hornady loading manual please tell me what they are listing as the minimum OAL for 55gr V-max bullets W/C?
Also what do they list as the minimum case trim length?
Thanks
Also what do they list as the minimum case trim length?
Thanks
3/30/2012 5:15:53 PM
I am going to throw this out there, but I highly recommend that you get a couple of reloading manuals to verify any data you get on the net.
If you are reloading a cannelure bullet, you would seat the bullet until the brass is at the middle of the cannelure. That way you can crimp into the cannelure, which is what it is designed for.
I load 55gr V-MAX without a cannelure and use the Cartridge Over All Length (COAL) of 2.250" which is recommended in the Hornady manual.
The case trim length for SAAMI .223 brass is 1.760"
You will find that many people on here trim to around 1.750" so that they don't need to trim every time they load. That is what I do...(actually comes out around 1.752" which is close enough for me.
Don't forget to resize before you trim......Good luck
If you are reloading a cannelure bullet, you would seat the bullet until the brass is at the middle of the cannelure. That way you can crimp into the cannelure, which is what it is designed for.
I load 55gr V-MAX without a cannelure and use the Cartridge Over All Length (COAL) of 2.250" which is recommended in the Hornady manual.
The case trim length for SAAMI .223 brass is 1.760"
You will find that many people on here trim to around 1.750" so that they don't need to trim every time they load. That is what I do...(actually comes out around 1.752" which is close enough for me.
Don't forget to resize before you trim......Good luck
3/30/2012 5:33:52 PM
Let me guess, you have cases shorter than 1.750 and are nervous.
You can load cases as short as 1.740, but give up some neck tension.
Myself, I don't load cases shorter than 1.748. Shorter than that, I make them into 300 blk.
You can load cases as short as 1.740, but give up some neck tension.
Myself, I don't load cases shorter than 1.748. Shorter than that, I make them into 300 blk.
Seat your bullets to mid cannelure. Don't obsess about the OAL.
As long as the OAL of your loads are under 2.260, (mag length) you will be fine.
3/30/2012 5:37:31 PM
The Max OAL for a AR is 2.260. This is to insure that the round will fit into the mag. You can load longer if you measure and know the the freebore of your rifle, but then you will be loading single shot. The general rule of thumb is one bullet diameter seated into the case.
For an AR it's, Mag length with at least one bullet diameter seated into the case or anything shorter. Remember the shorter the OAL the Less the pressure. So seating out to Mag length(2.260) will give you the highest pressure and anything shorter will produce less pressure.
Max case length is 1.760 and trim to length is .010 less or 1.750.
For an AR it's, Mag length with at least one bullet diameter seated into the case or anything shorter. Remember the shorter the OAL the Less the pressure. So seating out to Mag length(2.260) will give you the highest pressure and anything shorter will produce less pressure.
Max case length is 1.760 and trim to length is .010 less or 1.750.
3/30/2012 8:08:37 PM
Originally Posted By steve4102:
Remember the shorter the OAL the Less the pressure. .
Remember the shorter the OAL the Less the pressure. .
3/30/2012 10:11:18 PM
Originally Posted By Falcon195:
Can anybody with a Hornady loading manual please tell me what they are listing as the minimum OAL for 55gr V-max bullets W/C?
Also what do they list as the minimum case trim length?
Thanks
Can anybody with a Hornady loading manual please tell me what they are listing as the minimum OAL for 55gr V-max bullets W/C?
Also what do they list as the minimum case trim length?
Thanks
Hornady 8 page 165 shows the 55 gr V-max as not having a cannelure.
They list the OAL as 2.250. Trim length 1.750 just like we have been saying.
3/30/2012 11:57:02 PM
I have some that I seated down to 2.190 before to hit the middle of the canalure. The only time it really plays a major role is if your seating deep on a really hit round and compress the powder.
3/31/2012 8:59:49 AM
Originally Posted By anon:
Originally Posted By steve4102:
Remember the shorter the OAL the Less the pressure. .
Remember the shorter the OAL the Less the pressure. .
3/31/2012 10:15:31 AM
Originally Posted By steve4102:
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y17/steve4102/seatingdepthvpressure.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y17/steve4102/pressuregraph.jpg
Originally Posted By anon:
Originally Posted By steve4102:
Remember the shorter the OAL the Less the pressure. .
Remember the shorter the OAL the Less the pressure. .
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y17/steve4102/seatingdepthvpressure.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y17/steve4102/pressuregraph.jpg
This is highly dependent on cartridge, bullet, powder charge, powder type...those graphs demonstrate beautifully that there is a relationship between distance to the lands and pressure (even if the plot should be discrete points, and not a continuous function), but it says nothing about the idea that as you seat the bullet back into the case, you eliminate expansion space for the gases, and change the pressure characteristics of the burn. Given that in most AR's, loading short enough to get the cartridge in the mag will generally get the bullet pretty far off the lands (not always, but definitely most of the time), the effect of the distance to the lands won't likely be dominating the pressure behavior of the cartridge.
3/31/2012 10:50:14 AM
Originally Posted By RocketmanOU:
This is highly dependent on cartridge, bullet, powder charge, powder type...those graphs demonstrate beautifully that there is a relationship between distance to the lands and pressure (even if the plot should be discrete points, and not a continuous function), but it says nothing about the idea that as you seat the bullet back into the case, you eliminate expansion space for the gases, and change the pressure characteristics of the burn. Given that in most AR's, loading short enough to get the cartridge in the mag will generally get the bullet pretty far off the lands (not always, but definitely most of the time), the effect of the distance to the lands won't likely be dominating the pressure behavior of the cartridge.
Originally Posted By steve4102:
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y17/steve4102/seatingdepthvpressure.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y17/steve4102/pressuregraph.jpg
Originally Posted By anon:
Originally Posted By steve4102:
Remember the shorter the OAL the Less the pressure. .
Remember the shorter the OAL the Less the pressure. .
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y17/steve4102/seatingdepthvpressure.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y17/steve4102/pressuregraph.jpg
This is highly dependent on cartridge, bullet, powder charge, powder type...those graphs demonstrate beautifully that there is a relationship between distance to the lands and pressure (even if the plot should be discrete points, and not a continuous function), but it says nothing about the idea that as you seat the bullet back into the case, you eliminate expansion space for the gases, and change the pressure characteristics of the burn. Given that in most AR's, loading short enough to get the cartridge in the mag will generally get the bullet pretty far off the lands (not always, but definitely most of the time), the effect of the distance to the lands won't likely be dominating the pressure behavior of the cartridge.
From John Barsness, Handloader Magazine.
"It decreases peak pressure, for two reasons. The longer "jump" of the bullet to the rifling results in a lower peak pressure, since the bullet engraves more easily the faster it's going when it hits the rifling.
Also involved is the "progressive" burning of almost all modern rifle powders. This means the pressure increases relatively slowly from the time of ignition. Thus peak pressure occurs when the bullet beyond the barrel throat, with very slow-burning powders as much as 3-4 inches."
3/31/2012 11:20:51 AM
Originally Posted By steve4102:
From John Barsness, Handloader Magazine.
"It decreases peak pressure, for two reasons. The longer "jump" of the bullet to the rifling results in a lower peak pressure, since the bullet engraves more easily the faster it's going when it hits the rifling.
Also involved is the "progressive" burning of almost all modern rifle powders. This means the pressure increases relatively slowly from the time of ignition. Thus peak pressure occurs when the bullet beyond the barrel throat, with very slow-burning powders as much as 3-4 inches."
Originally Posted By RocketmanOU:
This is highly dependent on cartridge, bullet, powder charge, powder type...those graphs demonstrate beautifully that there is a relationship between distance to the lands and pressure (even if the plot should be discrete points, and not a continuous function), but it says nothing about the idea that as you seat the bullet back into the case, you eliminate expansion space for the gases, and change the pressure characteristics of the burn. Given that in most AR's, loading short enough to get the cartridge in the mag will generally get the bullet pretty far off the lands (not always, but definitely most of the time), the effect of the distance to the lands won't likely be dominating the pressure behavior of the cartridge.
Originally Posted By steve4102:
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y17/steve4102/seatingdepthvpressure.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y17/steve4102/pressuregraph.jpg
Originally Posted By anon:
Originally Posted By steve4102:
Remember the shorter the OAL the Less the pressure. .
Remember the shorter the OAL the Less the pressure. .
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y17/steve4102/seatingdepthvpressure.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y17/steve4102/pressuregraph.jpg
This is highly dependent on cartridge, bullet, powder charge, powder type...those graphs demonstrate beautifully that there is a relationship between distance to the lands and pressure (even if the plot should be discrete points, and not a continuous function), but it says nothing about the idea that as you seat the bullet back into the case, you eliminate expansion space for the gases, and change the pressure characteristics of the burn. Given that in most AR's, loading short enough to get the cartridge in the mag will generally get the bullet pretty far off the lands (not always, but definitely most of the time), the effect of the distance to the lands won't likely be dominating the pressure behavior of the cartridge.
From John Barsness, Handloader Magazine.
"It decreases peak pressure, for two reasons. The longer "jump" of the bullet to the rifling results in a lower peak pressure, since the bullet engraves more easily the faster it's going when it hits the rifling.
Also involved is the "progressive" burning of almost all modern rifle powders. This means the pressure increases relatively slowly from the time of ignition. Thus peak pressure occurs when the bullet beyond the barrel throat, with very slow-burning powders as much as 3-4 inches."
For medium/large rifle cases and slow burning powders, yes. For small cartridges using fast powders, that rule doesn't necessarily hold. Hence my point that it's dependent on the situation.
3/31/2012 11:50:29 AM
Originally Posted By RocketmanOU:
For medium/large rifle cases and slow burning powders, yes. For small cartridges using fast powders, that rule doesn't necessarily hold. Hence my point that it's dependent on the situation.
Originally Posted By steve4102:
From John Barsness, Handloader Magazine.
"It decreases peak pressure, for two reasons. The longer "jump" of the bullet to the rifling results in a lower peak pressure, since the bullet engraves more easily the faster it's going when it hits the rifling.
Also involved is the "progressive" burning of almost all modern rifle powders. This means the pressure increases relatively slowly from the time of ignition. Thus peak pressure occurs when the bullet beyond the barrel throat, with very slow-burning powders as much as 3-4 inches."
Originally Posted By RocketmanOU:
This is highly dependent on cartridge, bullet, powder charge, powder type...those graphs demonstrate beautifully that there is a relationship between distance to the lands and pressure (even if the plot should be discrete points, and not a continuous function), but it says nothing about the idea that as you seat the bullet back into the case, you eliminate expansion space for the gases, and change the pressure characteristics of the burn. Given that in most AR's, loading short enough to get the cartridge in the mag will generally get the bullet pretty far off the lands (not always, but definitely most of the time), the effect of the distance to the lands won't likely be dominating the pressure behavior of the cartridge.
Originally Posted By steve4102:
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y17/steve4102/seatingdepthvpressure.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y17/steve4102/pressuregraph.jpg
Originally Posted By anon:
Originally Posted By steve4102:
Remember the shorter the OAL the Less the pressure. .
Remember the shorter the OAL the Less the pressure. .
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y17/steve4102/seatingdepthvpressure.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y17/steve4102/pressuregraph.jpg
This is highly dependent on cartridge, bullet, powder charge, powder type...those graphs demonstrate beautifully that there is a relationship between distance to the lands and pressure (even if the plot should be discrete points, and not a continuous function), but it says nothing about the idea that as you seat the bullet back into the case, you eliminate expansion space for the gases, and change the pressure characteristics of the burn. Given that in most AR's, loading short enough to get the cartridge in the mag will generally get the bullet pretty far off the lands (not always, but definitely most of the time), the effect of the distance to the lands won't likely be dominating the pressure behavior of the cartridge.
From John Barsness, Handloader Magazine.
"It decreases peak pressure, for two reasons. The longer "jump" of the bullet to the rifling results in a lower peak pressure, since the bullet engraves more easily the faster it's going when it hits the rifling.
Also involved is the "progressive" burning of almost all modern rifle powders. This means the pressure increases relatively slowly from the time of ignition. Thus peak pressure occurs when the bullet beyond the barrel throat, with very slow-burning powders as much as 3-4 inches."
For medium/large rifle cases and slow burning powders, yes. For small cartridges using fast powders, that rule doesn't necessarily hold. Hence my point that it's dependent on the situation.
Straight walled pistol rounds with very fast powder yes, no so with modern rifle powders.
