3031 surplus

It came with the reloading kit I bought used loaded some up with 50 gr SPSX and 55 gr SP. Did two loads at 22 grain and 24 grain. This stuff shoots hot really tore the brass up on the locking lugs it basically caved the neck in and melted a hole in the brass catcher. Is this normal for this powder or am I doing something wrong?

From your description it sounds like your load was too hot.

It was IMR 3031 (military surplus) shooting out of a DPMS ar-15 16" bull barrel 1-9 twist.

I used hornady 50 gr sp sx and 55 gr sp bullets.

I was running low on bullets and only did a 22 gr and 24 gr of each 5 rds. Double checked with lyman and hornady manual 22 and 24 is within the min and max loads.

The primer was winchester small rifle. Brass was FC brass once fired.

Powder was trickled not thrown since i did so few rounds.

These cases came out of the gun just smokin hot with huge dents in the case from the locking lug ( I have confirmed this ). Will try to get a picture

How do you know the powder is IMR 3031? Was the container open?

To my knowledge, 3031 has never been a surplus powder, only canister grade, you have something else.
US mil has never used it.
'Borg
ETA, I've used a lot of 3031 w/55 and 60 gr bullets @ 25 gr, throught several autos(even Mini 14's) and bolt guns and never had any pressure signs. That is my go to accuracy load.

Something is wrong with your load. I load 24.4 gr, and have no pressure sign. Most probable cause appears to be mis-identification of the powder. I doubt it's 3031. Or no longer is...

I shot real Dupont IMR3031 years ago, and the only problem I had was getting all the powder down the skinny little .223" dia neck. Sometimes I have to push it down to get all of the powder down.

That is way, way too hot, personally, in absence of any loading data, I would discard the powder. It isn't worth it to ruin a good rifle and Life is too short already, and why make it any shorter.

With everything said it has to be the wrong powder then what is marked on the jug. Away it goes !!!

good call. i would never use powder that has been opened by someone else or has a questionable history

Related to all this: one of the most surprising revelations to me over the years as a reloader, is just how sloppy the majority of reloaders are. In this forum, the members have enough motivation to read and post, meaning they are already doing at least some research. But the baseline is not so high. I have handled, and sometimes fired, scores (hundreds?) of batches of reloads from as many citizen sources over the years. In that time, the number of times I've seen the box labeled with load info or even a lot or reference number is about 1.

If you are not keeping records and labelling your loads clearly, you are doing it wrong. My personal favorite is picking up a box that is helpfully labeled "Hot load".

If people want an Excel template for this, let me know and I'll put mine out there.

In my defense im absolutly anal about record keeping I have notes on every step from firing the factory ammo to firing the reload. The pound of powder was marked as mil surplus even with an inspector code it was on a commercial label but hand written it appeared unopened. I used load data of hornady and lyman books. Just what this powder did and what every one says it is obviously not 3031 so away it goes and a lesson learned.

I bought some IMR 3031 surplus in the 1960's, it was available surplus back then and several guys I know also bought the surplus 3031 powder. If you found some surplus 3031 it might be really old, and that might explain your problem.

What Mil cartridge would it have been used in?
Bought a lot of 4831 in paper sacks for 50 cents, but never seen 3031 from 1961 up
'Borg

MG surplus

MG?
Always IMR 17 1/2 (way before my time) or 4895.
'Borg

Just going by what the bottle said

Possible for your bottle to be mismarked?

I have never seen IMR 3031 being sold as surplus, but it would not surprise me if it was in the past.

IMR = Improved Military Rifle.

IMR 3031 was produced as a replacement for DuPont #17 1/2, which was an improved version of #16.

DuPont #16 came about in 1916 and was used to load ammunition for our allies (UK, France and Russia) during WW1.

DuPont #17 1/2 came about shortly after WW1 and was an improved version of #16 that was intended to reduce cupro-nickle jacket fouling.

When the IMR line was launched in the 1930's IMR 3031 replaced #17 1/2.

The name IMR 3031 comes from 303-1, and the powder was used to load ammunition in support of the UK during WW2.

Today there are better powders to load 303 Brit ammunition using bullets heavier than 150grn.

However, IMR 3031 works well with bullets weighing up to 180grns, just not quite the max velocity that can be achieved with more modern powders.

The powders back in the day were fast compared to the stuff we have access to today.

Surplus IMR 4831 (used in 20mm cannon ammunition) was about as slow as powder got for reloaders post WW2.

I know this does not help you with your load problems, but I thought I would throw this out there.


ETA - becuase I tend to be a bit nerdy and could not leave well enough alone.

Sheldon moment over.

Wow, didn't know that. Thanks for a little history lesson.

Did you have some of that 3031 equivilent powder that Bartlett Reloaders sold years ago? Some of it was mislabeled. I bought some and tried it in 55 grain .223 loadings. Just didn't seem right so I returned it.
I think they had it labeled as "PSA" a 3031 equivilent.

News to me too. Thanks, learn something new every day. Though, I'm surprised. 303 is a slow heavy bullet, I wouldn't have thought a fast powder like 3031 would be the one for it.

3031 (or 303-1 ) may have been considered a slow powder back in the 1930's. Propellant technology has evolved quite a bit since the WWII days.

Yep, the powders back then were on the fast side compared to today's offerings.

I added a bit more trivia in my post above if anyone cares.

Thanks! I love the history! I just finished P.O. Ackley's reloading book, and will be buying the Vol 2 from my LGS this weekend. There's a lot of good (and old) information in his books. If you know of other books that are like that, please suggest.

Hatchers Notebook.

So stating the characteristic of that it got the brass case hot enough to instantly cave in the neck area when it hit the locking lug when being injected do you think im just dealing with a really old powder?

Hatcher's Book of the Garand, but I think it is out of print, so it might take a little leg work to get a copy.

Read it and make your own decision about M-1 Garands being delicate rifles that can't handle ammunition loaded with bullets heavier than 150grns without an adjustable gas plug.

It could be just really old. How does the powder smell? Does it smell acrid, or, does it have a nice solvent (like acetone, or MEK) smell?

You need to return it or dump it. Either way, you don't know what it is and it is unreliable. Get rid of it.

I smelled it very sour

Then it's gone bad. I'd toss it in the garden/compost, or flush it.

Yep. Gunpowder should have a pleasing solvent odor. Or at least, every jug and bottle I've ever opened has.

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