Archived Posts » 59,726,163
Load for WC844 with 62gr SS109
6/2/2012 6:35:05 PM
I have loaded over 20K this year using the Hornady 55gr M193 bullet but as you likely know they are getting hard to find so I picked up some privi SS109 62gr and while I have a nice load for that with TAC I figured with all the WC844 I have I should give that a go
I am guessing my 24.5 TAC load will also be fine with the WC844 and can run a latter test Monday but thought I would get some feedback for those who have used this powder with any SS109 bullet.
And yes, i did check the load data threads, no SS109 and WC844
Wulfmann
I am guessing my 24.5 TAC load will also be fine with the WC844 and can run a latter test Monday but thought I would get some feedback for those who have used this powder with any SS109 bullet.
And yes, i did check the load data threads, no SS109 and WC844
Wulfmann
6/2/2012 6:53:07 PM
I tell guys to start at 23.5gr of WC-844 and work up.
6/2/2012 8:39:03 PM
With 2 different lots of WC 844 and and 62 M855/SS109 pulled bullets I would agree that 23.5 is a safe start load and will cycle fine as it's not a light load. With my 2 different lots from chrono data I would stop at 25 grains and not go higher. My best loads with 62 fmj bullets and WC 844 was at 24.6 grains in LC and RP cases with RP 7 1/2 primers. Make sure your longest overall length is 2.260 and some will be shorter. As you know WC 844 being a surplus powder can and does vary in burn rate. I've gotten slow lots and also one much faster lot than comparable H335 data.
6/2/2012 9:53:48 PM
I run 25gr it runs great!
6/2/2012 9:58:20 PM
I have 16 kegs of WC844 and all are the same lot number (Actually I have 9 as I have used 7 so far this year).
I requested that from Hi-Tech on the reorders.
I think the first time I ordered from Dan and Steve was maybe 1995 or 96 and I bought surplus 4895.
They have always been great to work with
24.5 or so should put it close to factory loads but last time I did a work up with TAC it was to duplicate POA with Privi M855.
This time it will be for IMI so who knows.
I would think 25 would be about as max as i would go with 62gr (although I load 26.5 for M193 55gr loads fine in all my ARs)
Wulfmann
I requested that from Hi-Tech on the reorders.
I think the first time I ordered from Dan and Steve was maybe 1995 or 96 and I bought surplus 4895.
They have always been great to work with
24.5 or so should put it close to factory loads but last time I did a work up with TAC it was to duplicate POA with Privi M855.
This time it will be for IMI so who knows.
I would think 25 would be about as max as i would go with 62gr (although I load 26.5 for M193 55gr loads fine in all my ARs)
Wulfmann
6/2/2012 11:36:38 PM
I have experience at 24.5grs and 844. Good load and easy on the brass.
I loaded between 2.230 and 2.250 and found the shorter settings more accurate.
I loaded between 2.230 and 2.250 and found the shorter settings more accurate.
6/3/2012 3:18:47 PM
I have read that a lot of guys say the factory LC load is 26.1g of WC844 on the M855 loads. Others have said their best performance is around 25.5g.
6/3/2012 6:01:38 PM
Originally Posted By Stump70:
I have experience at 24.5grs and 844. Good load and easy on the brass.
I loaded between 2.230 and 2.250 and found the shorter settings more accurate.
I have experience at 24.5grs and 844. Good load and easy on the brass.
I loaded between 2.230 and 2.250 and found the shorter settings more accurate.
The length is determined more by the canelure than anything else at least when it is not in the usual place.
The canelure is indicative of safely seating the bullet and one should never seat any bullet if the canelure is hidden under the neck)
This Privi SS109 is not typical and cases longer than 1.760 will actually be above the canelure when seated at 2.250!!!
This means it is not possible to seat even a trimmed case shorter than 2.240 OAL.
This must be carefully watched with these bullets. While I am a big advocate of not trimming brass even using it at 1.780 length with no problem that is because the Hornady M193 bullet canelure allows safely doing this and with that bullet I can be dangerous as some suggest (ignorantly but well meaning).
You know as long as you see the canelure you have not pasted the ogive and perhaps wrapped the brass neck around the bullet causing dangerous pressure.
This Privi SS109 is unforgiving on case length and requires a longer seat length so please take note of that if you want to use these!!!
These are nice bullets and when hand loaded mine are more accurate than the same bullet in the Privi factory M855 rounds
I have loaded up 10 each of 24.3, 24.5 and 24.7 and will compare POA with TAC 24.5 (which was same POA as Privi factory M855) as well as IMI factory
Wulfmann
6/3/2012 6:22:48 PM
According to TM43-0001-27:
6/3/2012 10:57:24 PM
Originally Posted By Wulfmann:
The length is determined more by the canelure than anything else at least when it is not in the usual place.
The canelure is indicative of safely seating the bullet and one should never seat any bullet if the canelure is hidden under the neck)
This Privi SS109 is not typical and cases longer than 1.760 will actually be above the canelure when seated at 2.250!!!
This means it is not possible to seat even a trimmed case shorter than 2.240 OAL.
This must be carefully watched with these bullets. While I am a big advocate of not trimming brass even using it at 1.780 length with no problem that is because the Hornady M193 bullet canelure allows safely doing this and with that bullet I can be dangerous as some suggest (ignorantly but well meaning).
You know as long as you see the canelure you have not pasted the ogive and perhaps wrapped the brass neck around the bullet causing dangerous pressure.
This Privi SS109 is unforgiving on case length and requires a longer seat length so please take note of that if you want to use these!!!
These are nice bullets and when hand loaded mine are more accurate than the same bullet in the Privi factory M855 rounds
I have loaded up 10 each of 24.3, 24.5 and 24.7 and will compare POA with TAC 24.5 (which was same POA as Privi factory M855) as well as IMI factory
Wulfmann
Originally Posted By Stump70:
I have experience at 24.5grs and 844. Good load and easy on the brass.
I loaded between 2.230 and 2.250 and found the shorter settings more accurate.
I have experience at 24.5grs and 844. Good load and easy on the brass.
I loaded between 2.230 and 2.250 and found the shorter settings more accurate.
The length is determined more by the canelure than anything else at least when it is not in the usual place.
The canelure is indicative of safely seating the bullet and one should never seat any bullet if the canelure is hidden under the neck)
This Privi SS109 is not typical and cases longer than 1.760 will actually be above the canelure when seated at 2.250!!!
This means it is not possible to seat even a trimmed case shorter than 2.240 OAL.
This must be carefully watched with these bullets. While I am a big advocate of not trimming brass even using it at 1.780 length with no problem that is because the Hornady M193 bullet canelure allows safely doing this and with that bullet I can be dangerous as some suggest (ignorantly but well meaning).
You know as long as you see the canelure you have not pasted the ogive and perhaps wrapped the brass neck around the bullet causing dangerous pressure.
This Privi SS109 is unforgiving on case length and requires a longer seat length so please take note of that if you want to use these!!!
These are nice bullets and when hand loaded mine are more accurate than the same bullet in the Privi factory M855 rounds
I have loaded up 10 each of 24.3, 24.5 and 24.7 and will compare POA with TAC 24.5 (which was same POA as Privi factory M855) as well as IMI factory
Wulfmann
Good info. Don't use those, but if they are that picky seems just to avoid them.
6/4/2012 11:13:47 AM
Interesting they say 26.1 WC844 as the military load.
I shot this morning. 24.3 and 24.5 maintained the same elevation which was also where Privi factory M855, TAC 24.5 as well as IMI M193 and Hornady TAP 75gr HPBT all printed.
24.7 jumped better than an inch over all other loads.
I can not fathom sticking 26.1 in a case but that is very dependent on the batch of WC844 and apparently this batch I have been getting (and I ask for it by lot number on re-orders which HI-Tech honors, thank you) is hotter.
24.7 was fine but the primers were slightly flatter than 24.3/5 so I would not even go 24.7 let alone higher
Accuracy was typical and nothing impressive like the Hornady TAP was was stellar around an inch (100 yards) with an EOTech 1X holding the gun with my front hand touching the rest to be legal at the bench rest range. Definitely loading up a SD mag with that
Wulfmann
I shot this morning. 24.3 and 24.5 maintained the same elevation which was also where Privi factory M855, TAC 24.5 as well as IMI M193 and Hornady TAP 75gr HPBT all printed.
24.7 jumped better than an inch over all other loads.
I can not fathom sticking 26.1 in a case but that is very dependent on the batch of WC844 and apparently this batch I have been getting (and I ask for it by lot number on re-orders which HI-Tech honors, thank you) is hotter.
24.7 was fine but the primers were slightly flatter than 24.3/5 so I would not even go 24.7 let alone higher
Accuracy was typical and nothing impressive like the Hornady TAP was was stellar around an inch (100 yards) with an EOTech 1X holding the gun with my front hand touching the rest to be legal at the bench rest range. Definitely loading up a SD mag with that
Wulfmann
6/4/2012 11:54:18 AM
I've tested 26.3gn of WC844 with the 55gn Z-Max with great results. I haven't tested that with any heavier bullets.
6/4/2012 12:15:50 PM
Originally Posted By xtreme762:
I've tested 26.3gn of WC844 with the 55gn Z-Max with great results. I haven't tested that with any heavier bullets.
I've tested 26.3gn of WC844 with the 55gn Z-Max with great results. I haven't tested that with any heavier bullets.
I run 26.5gr WC844 with Hornady M193 55gr to duplicate IMI POA. 62gr bullets are a different animal
Wulfmann
6/4/2012 2:38:17 PM
Tagging for reference
6/4/2012 10:26:58 PM
The length is determined more by the canelure than anything else at least when it is not in the usual place.
The canelure is indicative of safely seating the bullet and one should never seat any bullet if the canelure is hidden under the neck)
This Privi SS109 is not typical and cases longer than 1.760 will actually be above the canelure when seated at 2.250!!!
This means it is not possible to seat even a trimmed case shorter than 2.240 OAL.
This must be carefully watched with these bullets. While I am a big advocate of not trimming brass even using it at 1.780 length with no problem that is because the Hornady M193 bullet canelure allows safely doing this and with that bullet I can be dangerous as some suggest (ignorantly but well meaning).
You know as long as you see the canelure you have not pasted the ogive and perhaps wrapped the brass neck around the bullet causing dangerous pressure.
This Privi SS109 is unforgiving on case length and requires a longer seat length so please take note of that if you want to use these!!!
These are nice bullets and when hand loaded mine are more accurate than the same bullet in the Privi factory M855 rounds
I have loaded up 10 each of 24.3, 24.5 and 24.7 and will compare POA with TAC 24.5 (which was same POA as Privi factory M855) as well as IMI factory
To each their own, but in my opinion, loading to the cannelure is completely incorrect. They are all over the place in where they are located on the bullets from batch to batch and brand to brand.
Further the idea that a casing can be used, untrimmed and over length because of the cannelure is a little far fetched... the fat end of the bullet *still* goes through the compressed forward lip of the case. The cannelure is completely irrelevant. If the case was so long as to cause over pressure, it's still going to be over pressure cannelure or no. Also, on a properly trimmed case, it doesn't take much force at all to move the bullet, the pressure of the round itself dwarfs it like the sun does a 60 watt light bulb. There is a camp that would say the cannelure doesn't have anything to do with preventing bullet setback as it does with helping to ensure rapid fragmentation... but again.. we all have opinions... mine happens to be, trim to proper length and set bullet to proper OAL.. and let the cannelure end up where ever it ends up.
I do give a +1 on the privi ss109... very happy with the ones I've loaded over Varget...
6/14/2012 4:02:57 PM
I use 24.5gr of WC844 under the ss109 pulls. Its a nice load and doesnt trash the brass
6/15/2012 12:46:31 PM
Originally Posted By Cycline3:
To each their own, but in my opinion, loading to the cannelure is completely incorrect. They are all over the place in where they are located on the bullets from batch to batch and brand to brand.
Further the idea that a casing can be used, untrimmed and over length because of the cannelure is a little far fetched... the fat end of the bullet *still* goes through the compressed forward lip of the case. The cannelure is completely irrelevant. If the case was so long as to cause over pressure, it's still going to be over pressure cannelure or no. Also, on a properly trimmed case, it doesn't take much force at all to move the bullet, the pressure of the round itself dwarfs it like the sun does a 60 watt light bulb. There is a camp that would say the cannelure doesn't have anything to do with preventing bullet setback as it does with helping to ensure rapid fragmentation... but again.. we all have opinions... mine happens to be, trim to proper length and set bullet to proper OAL.. and let the cannelure end up where ever it ends up.
I do give a +1 on the privi ss109... very happy with the ones I've loaded over Varget...
To each their own, but in my opinion, loading to the cannelure is completely incorrect. They are all over the place in where they are located on the bullets from batch to batch and brand to brand.
Further the idea that a casing can be used, untrimmed and over length because of the cannelure is a little far fetched... the fat end of the bullet *still* goes through the compressed forward lip of the case. The cannelure is completely irrelevant. If the case was so long as to cause over pressure, it's still going to be over pressure cannelure or no. Also, on a properly trimmed case, it doesn't take much force at all to move the bullet, the pressure of the round itself dwarfs it like the sun does a 60 watt light bulb. There is a camp that would say the cannelure doesn't have anything to do with preventing bullet setback as it does with helping to ensure rapid fragmentation... but again.. we all have opinions... mine happens to be, trim to proper length and set bullet to proper OAL.. and let the cannelure end up where ever it ends up.
I do give a +1 on the privi ss109... very happy with the ones I've loaded over Varget...
Far fetched??? Maybe as a general rule yes but specifically not always and certainly not here.
I agree the canelure on various bullets varies but unless one can measure precisely it is a safe bet to never bury the canelure as if one passes the ogive then over pressure is a very real possibility.
I do not have a position on canelure regarding set back or fragmentation as that too would vary with each make.
My point here is in my guns I can use cases safely to 1.780 (and in testing more) so I am not going to do unneeded work because others who do not know what their gun can actually handle won't bother to find out.
Certainly without knowing trimmed to is a must and common sense.
Now, besides over pressure by chamber length vs. too long a case neck we have seating the bullet past the ogive which can be as serious a problem. The surest way to insure you are not doing that is to seat with canelure showing.
That is just an easy way to remain safe and is not meant to represent a scientific test result.
It is like trimming your brass by the book. Unless you can prove your chamber is cut to handle more (and how much more) one should trim cases that exceed 1.760 by any amount because it is easier to "know" you are safe and safe is a line we stay on the good side of.
Those that say we should not exceed the book even if we know our particular gun can safely handle it are entitled to trim more often.
I love those morning when those guys are trimming and I have the range all to myself
Wulfmann
