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A new solution for the AUG/MSAR hammer pack... by gutting it!
6/13/2011 1:41:56 PM
Prototype shown with a slightly modified AR hammer/trigger set
Hybrid Trigger Mod.
Concept by: Allen Millhouse & Bill Mckay (co-owners of Ratworx)
Designed by: 2020
Thank you
6/13/2011 2:16:02 PM
About time! 
6/13/2011 2:29:26 PM
Pretty.
Details?
Details?
6/13/2011 4:15:35 PM
fascinated...
how will the metal parts in the trigger pack interact with the plastic pieces of the gun (like the end of the firing pin that will be stuck by the hammer). I'll want several of these....
how will the metal parts in the trigger pack interact with the plastic pieces of the gun (like the end of the firing pin that will be stuck by the hammer). I'll want several of these....
6/13/2011 4:35:36 PM
Damn, you've got my money. Hahaha. Got me.
Very, very nice.
Very, very nice.
6/13/2011 4:40:13 PM
Awesome!!!
6/13/2011 4:42:19 PM
Nice!
6/13/2011 4:43:32 PM
Originally Posted By SilentType:
Damn, you've got my money. Hahaha. Got me.
Very, very nice.
Damn, you've got my money. Hahaha. Got me.
Very, very nice.
A BIG +1
6/13/2011 4:51:36 PM
Originally Posted By FSG_Machining:
fascinated...
how will the metal parts in the trigger pack interact with the plastic pieces of the gun (like the end of the firing pin that will be stuck by the hammer). I'll want several of these....
fascinated...
how will the metal parts in the trigger pack interact with the plastic pieces of the gun (like the end of the firing pin that will be stuck by the hammer). I'll want several of these....
Thank you for your question. There're only two parts that actually interact the AR hammer... the cocking piece and the strike face of the firing pin and only the cocking piece is plastic. FYI, Ratworx has thoroughly tested the second prototype and there hasn't been any issue with wear and tear so far.
2020
6/13/2011 4:57:44 PM
Thank you guys for your generous comments.
6/13/2011 5:23:48 PM
The most important question of them all...................When can I buy 2 of them and how much???????
ETA: Are there any user adjustments that can be made like trigger pull weight, over travel, and take-up or are these essentially drop-in units like a McCormack trigger for AR's? Is the hammer spring interchangable with aftermarket AR springs like the ones from Wolf and what parts (springs, pins, disconnector, etc) are interchangable with AR's so we can make spot repairs if we don't have a spare hammer pack on hand?
MadDog
ETA: Are there any user adjustments that can be made like trigger pull weight, over travel, and take-up or are these essentially drop-in units like a McCormack trigger for AR's? Is the hammer spring interchangable with aftermarket AR springs like the ones from Wolf and what parts (springs, pins, disconnector, etc) are interchangable with AR's so we can make spot repairs if we don't have a spare hammer pack on hand?
MadDog
6/13/2011 5:30:54 PM
Originally Posted By 2020:
Thank you guys for your generous comments.
Thank you guys for your generous comments.
Well done!
I remember when Al broached this subject with me a couple years ago I thought it was an awesome idea with some interesting challenges. Glad to see he got someone to get it done, looks just like I imagined it would. Now, as posted, when can I send you my monies?
6/13/2011 6:07:26 PM
That looks like a GREAT idea. Can't wait to see them in production and glad that Ratworx is keeping the MSAR going.
6/13/2011 6:33:55 PM
Can we do a group buy on these? haha
6/13/2011 6:52:07 PM
Great idea Roger! Really digging the concept. I'm gathering from the title of the thread that this is compatible with the Steyr hammer pack in my AXR?
6/13/2011 6:55:51 PM
The disconnector and hammer spring look like they come from an AR. I wonder how many parts in this unit will cross over with AR parts if any at all.
MadDog
MadDog
6/13/2011 7:18:12 PM
Wow, looks nice. Will it weigh much more?
6/13/2011 7:22:58 PM
Well done guys!
Roger, does the connecting rod engage the slide from the starboard side or both sides?
Roger, does the connecting rod engage the slide from the starboard side or both sides?
6/13/2011 7:46:59 PM
Great Job Roger and the guys at Ratworx!
6/13/2011 8:08:50 PM
I have tried one of these and they work as good as they look. This has fixed the problem of the AUG platform trigger pull. Well done! 
6/13/2011 8:10:17 PM
I'll be having one of those please!
Just what I thought it would be too. When I heard Dave mention these a while ago "wide spare parts availability" made me think for sure that it would use AR parts (just like the Ratworx bolt).
Looks like I was right...
Price?
Just what I thought it would be too. When I heard Dave mention these a while ago "wide spare parts availability" made me think for sure that it would use AR parts (just like the Ratworx bolt).
Looks like I was right...
Price?
6/13/2011 8:30:05 PM
They look beautiful. Really nicely machined.
Ratworx hyrbid bolts are great too.
Ratworx hyrbid bolts are great too.
6/13/2011 8:34:50 PM
Awesome, I want one......
6/13/2011 8:57:38 PM
Any testing with AR match triggers?
6/13/2011 9:47:19 PM
prototype with a slightly modified AR hammer/trigger set
Does this mean standard AR hammer/trigger or modular AR sets won't work in this new pack?
6/14/2011 12:56:26 AM
What prevented the drop in carriage from being made of plastic? I know you must have tried it!
6/14/2011 1:25:03 AM
very well made and genius concept and design !
6/14/2011 1:54:41 AM
Originally Posted By MadDogDan:
The most important question of them all...................When can I buy 2 of them and how much???????
ETA: Are there any user adjustments that can be made like trigger pull weight, over travel, and take-up or are these essentially drop-in units like a McCormack trigger for AR's? Is the hammer spring interchangable with aftermarket AR springs like the ones from Wolf and what parts (springs, pins, disconnector, etc) are interchangable with AR's so we can make spot repairs if we don't have a spare hammer pack on hand?
MadDog
The most important question of them all...................When can I buy 2 of them and how much???????
ETA: Are there any user adjustments that can be made like trigger pull weight, over travel, and take-up or are these essentially drop-in units like a McCormack trigger for AR's? Is the hammer spring interchangable with aftermarket AR springs like the ones from Wolf and what parts (springs, pins, disconnector, etc) are interchangable with AR's so we can make spot repairs if we don't have a spare hammer pack on hand?
MadDog
For all intent and purposes, the AR trigger / hammer parts are the same. The ability to reduce and control over travel is possible. The pull weight, by design has been greatly reduced and is now smoother.
Drop in units like McCormack were evaluated. The idea is sound, but required some customization to the drop-in units that we felt would make the concept cost prohibitive.
You can order it from the works company that cats like to chase.
6/14/2011 1:56:13 AM
Originally Posted By sgtlmj:
Well done guys!
Roger, does the connecting rod engage the slide from the starboard side or both sides?
Well done guys!
Roger, does the connecting rod engage the slide from the starboard side or both sides?
Right side.
6/14/2011 9:33:59 AM
What if you have a stock that has rods on both sides? Will the left side need to be shortened or is there clearance for it?
6/14/2011 11:26:49 AM
Originally Posted By brazos609:
What if you have a stock that has rods on both sides? Will the left side need to be shortened or is there clearance for it?
What if you have a stock that has rods on both sides? Will the left side need to be shortened or is there clearance for it?
No problem, it will work fine.
6/14/2011 2:33:49 PM
Very nice. Any idea on approximate price and date of availability?
6/14/2011 3:16:19 PM
This actually might make me buy an AUG. I have handled a few MSAR rifles even one of the limited edition HB 24" long with the "match" trigger pack and if this is better than that one it would be great. The best trigger I have ever felt on a bullpup was on the RFB and if this is better than that I would have to start saving my pennies 
.
So who has the best price on MSAR's?
.
So who has the best price on MSAR's
?
6/14/2011 8:29:26 PM
Now I'll have three hammer packs.
One customized, the other with my neu-trigger, and soon this one. My quest for an improved AUG trigger has been a long one.
One customized, the other with my neu-trigger, and soon this one. My quest for an improved AUG trigger has been a long one.
6/14/2011 11:15:33 PM
Got you beat SilentType...............after I get this new upgrade for both of my E4's I will have 5 hammer packs. Anyone want to buy a couple?
MadDog
MadDog
6/15/2011 8:54:44 AM
Are these available yet?
6/15/2011 8:59:51 AM
Originally Posted By Pushrod_Paul:
Are these available yet?
Are these available yet?
I sent Ratworx an email asking about something else and asked about availability, they are supposed to have the first batch sometime this week.
6/15/2011 9:08:19 AM
Sven:
Did you happen to ask the selling price?
MadDog
Did you happen to ask the selling price?
MadDog
6/15/2011 12:04:59 PM
Originally Posted By MadDogDan:
Sven:
Did you happen to ask the selling price?
MadDog
Sven:
Did you happen to ask the selling price?
MadDog
I think it is $200, but don't quote me on that quite yet. If I get a chance I'll call at lunch to check pricing and availability.
Sven
BTW, nice avatar pic!
6/15/2011 12:17:53 PM
The price for the new hammer pack is $200.
These hammer packs are amazing. There are several benefits of the new hammer pack besides the incredible trigger pull. Your AUG platform rifle will now cock much smoother. There will be no more light strikes. The steel hammer hits the steel firing pin with authority. The parts are fully adjustable. The bad trigger pull is gone.
Over the years I have figured out how to put a pretty decent trigger in a MSAR, a few guys here have a hammer pack I modded and I am sure you would agree. With that said, I will buy one of these new hammer packs for every AUG platform rifle I own.
Dave Robertson
These hammer packs are amazing. There are several benefits of the new hammer pack besides the incredible trigger pull. Your AUG platform rifle will now cock much smoother. There will be no more light strikes. The steel hammer hits the steel firing pin with authority. The parts are fully adjustable. The bad trigger pull is gone.
Over the years I have figured out how to put a pretty decent trigger in a MSAR, a few guys here have a hammer pack I modded and I am sure you would agree. With that said, I will buy one of these new hammer packs for every AUG platform rifle I own.
Dave Robertson
6/15/2011 1:21:59 PM
Will these work for the other calibers as well? 7.62 and 5.45 can have pretty hard primers.
6/15/2011 1:39:13 PM
Originally Posted By MTguns:
Will these work for the other calibers as well? 7.62 and 5.45 can have pretty hard primers.
Will these work for the other calibers as well? 7.62 and 5.45 can have pretty hard primers.
Yes, they hit the primer harder than a stock hammer pack.
6/15/2011 1:39:40 PM
just talked to.aaron at ratworx, he said about $200 for the new hammer pack. he did not know the exact release date, but it should be in 2-3 weeks or so (based on what al told me earlier this week)
as to harder primers, iirc the pack uses a standard ar_ef hammer spring, when my 5.45 ar had a few rounds not light i switched to a wolff +10% power hammer spring and problem solved. the nice thing with this pack is standard ar parts means easy witches like that.
Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
as to harder primers, iirc the pack uses a standard ar_ef hammer spring, when my 5.45 ar had a few rounds not light i switched to a wolff +10% power hammer spring and problem solved. the nice thing with this pack is standard ar parts means easy witches like that.
Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
6/15/2011 3:47:41 PM
Just got a call from Rat Worx about a half hour ago and I paid for my new hammer pack they said it will ship out shortly!!!
6/15/2011 3:55:45 PM
Originally Posted By 380long:
Just got a call from Rat Worx about a half hour ago and I paid for my new hammer pack they said it will ship out shortly!!!
Just got a call from Rat Worx about a half hour ago and I paid for my new hammer pack they said it will ship out shortly!!!
Same, probably gonna sell out before they are ready to ship
6/15/2011 4:00:21 PM
About time!
Ordered just now...
Ordered just now...
6/15/2011 4:38:23 PM
Listed on the website...
http://www.ratworxusa.com/ratworxusa.com/pagDetail.aspx?SKU=RW-HTM-2020-Precision
http://www.ratworxusa.com/ratworxusa.com/pagDetail.aspx?SKU=RW-HTM-2020-Precision
6/15/2011 6:08:12 PM
Just ordered one and if it is as good as 2020 says it is, another will be on it's way. I have a couple of Wolf reduced power hammer and rebound springs for AR's laying around. I think I will run a few hundred rounds through the new trigger and then swap the springs out to see if it lightens the trigger pull even more and still gives reliable primer ignition. If it doesn't switching springs back should only take a minute or so.
MadDog
MadDog
6/15/2011 6:13:40 PM
Sounds like it has a lot of adjustment to it. Definitely play with the built-in adjustments before starting to change springs.
The only thing I'd be concerned with is if there's enough drag on the bolt carrier. Pete explained to me one time (when I was questioning him about TPD running one hammer spring), that the AUG relied on the hammer/bolt carrier friction to properly time the bolt into battery. He said that improper timing would chew away at the bolt sleeves.
The only thing I'd be concerned with is if there's enough drag on the bolt carrier. Pete explained to me one time (when I was questioning him about TPD running one hammer spring), that the AUG relied on the hammer/bolt carrier friction to properly time the bolt into battery. He said that improper timing would chew away at the bolt sleeves.
6/15/2011 8:17:37 PM
Originally Posted By jagdkommando:
No problem, it will work fine.
Originally Posted By brazos609:
What if you have a stock that has rods on both sides? Will the left side need to be shortened or is there clearance for it?
What if you have a stock that has rods on both sides? Will the left side need to be shortened or is there clearance for it?
No problem, it will work fine.
So do guns with two rods no longer have an advantage?
6/15/2011 9:06:05 PM
Originally Posted By sgtlmj:
The only thing I'd be concerned with is if there's enough drag on the bolt carrier. Pete explained to me one time (when I was questioning him about TPD running one hammer spring), that the AUG relied on the hammer/bolt carrier friction to properly time the bolt into battery. He said that improper timing would chew away at the bolt sleeves.
The only thing I'd be concerned with is if there's enough drag on the bolt carrier. Pete explained to me one time (when I was questioning him about TPD running one hammer spring), that the AUG relied on the hammer/bolt carrier friction to properly time the bolt into battery. He said that improper timing would chew away at the bolt sleeves.
Since the units have been extensively tested and 2020 and Ratworx felt they were ready for production and sales, I wouldn't have "any" concerns about enough carrier drag. The guys who designed this thing did so using AR parts not only because of plentiful parts availability, but also because of ease of modification for those of us who like to customize and fine tune everything to death.
JMHO,
MadDog
