Archived Posts » 59,821,464
Are on-line sales the new no mess straw purchase platform?
6/13/2011 9:32:32 PM
In the last few weeks, I've had a few transfers from on-line sales. The pistol comes in with a girls name as the buyer. Each time the girl and friend who is a male come in to get the gun. The girl asks for the gun, fills out the 4473, and pays the transfer fee. No "obvious reason" for concern.
Last week a pretty, little, well groomed, girl came in to pick up a transfer with her filthy hood rat male companion. The guy said something about it being a birthday present.
I said OK, you fill out the paperwork.
He went off on a rant that he was told buy the guy who sold the gun (I'm right on the border with MI) that anyone can buy a gun for someone and give it to them as a gift.
I said that was correct, as long as the person receiving the gun would pass the check to buy the gun.
I finally said the only way I'm releasing this gun is of you both fill out the form, and both pass.
I explained to the girl that if she was buying the gun for him because he couldn't buy it himself, she was committing a felony.
He finally agreed to fill out the 4473 and was delayed. She passed. Hopefully I'll get a resolution on his before his pick up date.
I never really though of this until now, but its got me perplexed. I have no problem denying a sale when 2 people are in my store making(what I believe) is a straw purchase. But now Ezekiel can borrow his girls CC, order online and have her pick it up and to deliver to him.
PS DOB of the guy is 10/10 - birthday present?
Last week a pretty, little, well groomed, girl came in to pick up a transfer with her filthy hood rat male companion. The guy said something about it being a birthday present.
I said OK, you fill out the paperwork.
He went off on a rant that he was told buy the guy who sold the gun (I'm right on the border with MI) that anyone can buy a gun for someone and give it to them as a gift.
I said that was correct, as long as the person receiving the gun would pass the check to buy the gun.
I finally said the only way I'm releasing this gun is of you both fill out the form, and both pass.
I explained to the girl that if she was buying the gun for him because he couldn't buy it himself, she was committing a felony.
He finally agreed to fill out the 4473 and was delayed. She passed. Hopefully I'll get a resolution on his before his pick up date.
I never really though of this until now, but its got me perplexed. I have no problem denying a sale when 2 people are in my store making(what I believe) is a straw purchase. But now Ezekiel can borrow his girls CC, order online and have her pick it up and to deliver to him.
PS DOB of the guy is 10/10 - birthday present?
6/13/2011 10:45:12 PM
Eventually Ezekiel will wise up and just send the gf in by herself to pick up the gun.
In the meantime, all you can do is use your best judgement.
In the meantime, all you can do is use your best judgement.
6/14/2011 12:14:09 AM
Originally Posted By bigbore:
I finally said the only way I'm releasing this gun is of you both fill out the form, and both pass.
I finally said the only way I'm releasing this gun is of you both fill out the form, and both pass.
??
You are only ALLOWED to run a background on the person transferring the gun. You CAN NOT run a background just to see if one or the other can pass.
Now you have 2 call-in numbers for the intention of ONE firearm.
This has been told to me by the ATF and FDLE as FL is my POC.
I agree like bubbles to use your best judgement, but by the letter of the law.
6/14/2011 6:10:20 AM
If I were that concerned, I'd inform the young lady about her possible prison time and for them to find another transfer dealer. The few bucks made on the transfer isn't worth the potential trouble.
6/14/2011 6:55:09 AM
Originally Posted By Rightful_Liberty:
??
You are only ALLOWED to run a background on the person transferring the gun. You CAN NOT run a background just to see if one or the other can pass.
Now you have 2 call-in numbers for the intention of ONE firearm.
This has been told to me by the ATF and FDLE as FL is my POC.
I agree like bubbles to use your best judgement, but by the letter of the law.
Originally Posted By bigbore:
I finally said the only way I'm releasing this gun is of you both fill out the form, and both pass.
I finally said the only way I'm releasing this gun is of you both fill out the form, and both pass.
??
You are only ALLOWED to run a background on the person transferring the gun. You CAN NOT run a background just to see if one or the other can pass.
Now you have 2 call-in numbers for the intention of ONE firearm.
This has been told to me by the ATF and FDLE as FL is my POC.
I agree like bubbles to use your best judgement, but by the letter of the law.
She filled out the 4473 and passed. It was then he said the gun was for him. You can call and cancel/void an NTN number. Her number can be cancelled, so his is the only attached to the transfer.
6/14/2011 11:44:58 AM
Originally Posted By bigbore:
She filled out the 4473 and passed. It was then he said the gun was for him. You can call and cancel/void an NTN number. Her number can be cancelled, so his is the only attached to the transfer.
She filled out the 4473 and passed. It was then he said the gun was for him. You can call and cancel/void an NTN number. Her number can be cancelled, so his is the only attached to the transfer.
Considering this is a transfer and not a sale, do you have a policy in place in case he doesn't pass?
6/14/2011 11:48:55 AM
Originally Posted By Bubbles:
Considering this is a transfer and not a sale, do you have a policy in place in case he doesn't pass?
Originally Posted By bigbore:
She filled out the 4473 and passed. It was then he said the gun was for him. You can call and cancel/void an NTN number. Her number can be cancelled, so his is the only attached to the transfer.
She filled out the 4473 and passed. It was then he said the gun was for him. You can call and cancel/void an NTN number. Her number can be cancelled, so his is the only attached to the transfer.
Considering this is a transfer and not a sale, do you have a policy in place in case he doesn't pass?
If he doesnt pass, someone still owes me a transfer fee(+shipping) to send it back to the seller, who I'll assume the buyer will want to get his money back from.
6/15/2011 7:51:40 PM
You are just making problems for yourself, and this is actually not true but I guess you knew that:
He went off on a rant that he was told buy the guy who sold the gun (I'm right on the border with MI) that anyone can buy a gun for someone and give it to them as a gift.
I said that was correct, as long as the person receiving the gun would pass the check to buy the gun.
My guess is if he does not pass, they will send someone else in alone or send it to another dealer and the girl will buy it alone. Sooner or later they will learn how to game the system.
He went off on a rant that he was told buy the guy who sold the gun (I'm right on the border with MI) that anyone can buy a gun for someone and give it to them as a gift.
I said that was correct, as long as the person receiving the gun would pass the check to buy the gun.
My guess is if he does not pass, they will send someone else in alone or send it to another dealer and the girl will buy it alone. Sooner or later they will learn how to game the system.
6/15/2011 8:02:37 PM
Originally Posted By RenegadeX:
You are just making problems for yourself, and this is actually not true but I guess you knew that:
He went off on a rant that he was told buy the guy who sold the gun (I'm right on the border with MI) that anyone can buy a gun for someone and give it to them as a gift.
I said that was correct, as long as the person receiving the gun would pass the check to buy the gun.
My guess is if he does not pass, they will send someone else in alone or send it to another dealer and the girl will buy it alone. Sooner or later they will learn how to game the system.
You are just making problems for yourself, and this is actually not true but I guess you knew that:
He went off on a rant that he was told buy the guy who sold the gun (I'm right on the border with MI) that anyone can buy a gun for someone and give it to them as a gift.
I said that was correct, as long as the person receiving the gun would pass the check to buy the gun.
My guess is if he does not pass, they will send someone else in alone or send it to another dealer and the girl will buy it alone. Sooner or later they will learn how to game the system.
Even so, why should he be the one that is transferring to someone that can't possess a firearm?
6/15/2011 8:17:32 PM
Originally Posted By Unicorn:
Even so, why should he be the one that is transferring to someone that can't possess a firearm?
Originally Posted By RenegadeX:
You are just making problems for yourself, and this is actually not true but I guess you knew that:
He went off on a rant that he was told buy the guy who sold the gun (I'm right on the border with MI) that anyone can buy a gun for someone and give it to them as a gift.
I said that was correct, as long as the person receiving the gun would pass the check to buy the gun.
My guess is if he does not pass, they will send someone else in alone or send it to another dealer and the girl will buy it alone. Sooner or later they will learn how to game the system.
You are just making problems for yourself, and this is actually not true but I guess you knew that:
He went off on a rant that he was told buy the guy who sold the gun (I'm right on the border with MI) that anyone can buy a gun for someone and give it to them as a gift.
I said that was correct, as long as the person receiving the gun would pass the check to buy the gun.
My guess is if he does not pass, they will send someone else in alone or send it to another dealer and the girl will buy it alone. Sooner or later they will learn how to game the system.
Even so, why should he be the one that is transferring to someone that can't possess a firearm?
The woman passed the NICS check, he would NOT be transferring to someone that can't possess a firearm.
ETA:
This is the OPs point - since it is an xfer, he does not know who actually purchased the gun, and since gifts are legal, it is hard to know if anything illegal is going to take place after it leaves his shop. He made a judgment call and made some bogus claims, to see what they would do. Not what I would do, but his shop, his rules.
6/15/2011 8:31:22 PM
There was no resolution provided, so he took his pistol home today. He picked up the gun, he filled out the 4473, waited, and signed again today when picked it up. The law was followed to the letter. If he comes back denied later, the ATF can go get the gun from him, saving me the "you're denied conversation". Maybe I'll get a "proceed" tomorrow, who knows but it's out of my hands now.
6/16/2011 11:59:09 AM
Honest and sincere question. Please don't be offended.
How does it feel knowing you may have just transferred a gun to someone that shouldn't have one ?
This is a struggle I have sometimes... and is exactly why I run such a tight ship.
I require any internet buyers to come to the shop first. I won't do any transfers over the phone unless it's someone I know personally. There are also certain guns I won't transfer at all. Jennings, raven, Hipoint, Jimenez, etc...
If someone calls on the phone and wants a gun shipped in... I first ask what kind of gun... then I ask if it's coming from another FFL. If they answer those two questions to my satisfaction... I then tell them they need to come in to my shop with the FFL/FAX/Email/phone number info.
In your case, it reads to me that the girl ordered the gun... then dirtball showed up with her to get it.
Had that trick been pulled on me, I probably wouldn't have transferred the gun to either of them. I'm not sure what the demographics are like in your area... but where I am, there is a high concentration of gangs and shitbags. If there is even the slightest hint of trouble with a gun transaction, I turn into the gunshop version of a Seinfeld "Soup Nazi"... and it's "NO GUN FO YOU".
Out of approx 600 background checks, I've gotten three delayed and one denied. Of the three delayed, I canceled the sale on all but one, as he was a uniformed Police Officer.
How does it feel knowing you may have just transferred a gun to someone that shouldn't have one ?
This is a struggle I have sometimes... and is exactly why I run such a tight ship.
I require any internet buyers to come to the shop first. I won't do any transfers over the phone unless it's someone I know personally. There are also certain guns I won't transfer at all. Jennings, raven, Hipoint, Jimenez, etc...
If someone calls on the phone and wants a gun shipped in... I first ask what kind of gun... then I ask if it's coming from another FFL. If they answer those two questions to my satisfaction... I then tell them they need to come in to my shop with the FFL/FAX/Email/phone number info.
In your case, it reads to me that the girl ordered the gun... then dirtball showed up with her to get it.
Had that trick been pulled on me, I probably wouldn't have transferred the gun to either of them. I'm not sure what the demographics are like in your area... but where I am, there is a high concentration of gangs and shitbags. If there is even the slightest hint of trouble with a gun transaction, I turn into the gunshop version of a Seinfeld "Soup Nazi"... and it's "NO GUN FO YOU".
Out of approx 600 background checks, I've gotten three delayed and one denied. Of the three delayed, I canceled the sale on all but one, as he was a uniformed Police Officer.
6/16/2011 12:27:46 PM
Originally Posted By Dragracer_Art:
Honest and sincere question. Please don't be offended.
How does it feel knowing you may have just transferred a gun to someone that shouldn't have one ?
Honest and sincere question. Please don't be offended.
How does it feel knowing you may have just transferred a gun to someone that shouldn't have one ?
I may have, and I may not have. Had he refused to fill out the 4473, I would not have transferred it to her. The guy looked like a total douche, but didnt do or say anything that threw up any obvious flags. I've told many a hood rat, "no gun for you".
I sign off on about 1000 4473s every year, and I dont get more than 5 or 6 traces a year, so I go with my gut.
6/16/2011 2:10:53 PM
I've had numerous delays but have always gotten a response back within 24 hours. What my CI informed me is that it is the dealers prerogative whether or not to automatically transfer it after the 3-day period is up.
Personally, I would not even consider automatically transfering any firearm unless I get a proceed and yes, I understand that it is the ATF's problem after you transfer, but that doesn't mean you HAVE to. I would have some serious problems (with myself) if I were to do that and it ends up being used in a crime.
You went with your gut and by the letter of the law. Keep us updated.
Personally, I would not even consider automatically transfering any firearm unless I get a proceed and yes, I understand that it is the ATF's problem after you transfer, but that doesn't mean you HAVE to. I would have some serious problems (with myself) if I were to do that and it ends up being used in a crime.
You went with your gut and by the letter of the law. Keep us updated.
6/16/2011 3:57:50 PM
Originally Posted By bigbore:
I may have, and I may not have. Had he refused to fill out the 4473, I would not have transferred it to her. The guy looked like a total douche, but didnt do or say anything that threw up any obvious flags. I've told many a hood rat, "no gun for you".
I sign off on about 1000 4473s every year, and I dont get more than 5 or 6 traces a year, so I go with my gut.
Originally Posted By Dragracer_Art:
Honest and sincere question. Please don't be offended.
How does it feel knowing you may have just transferred a gun to someone that shouldn't have one ?
Honest and sincere question. Please don't be offended.
How does it feel knowing you may have just transferred a gun to someone that shouldn't have one ?
I may have, and I may not have. Had he refused to fill out the 4473, I would not have transferred it to her. The guy looked like a total douche, but didnt do or say anything that threw up any obvious flags. I've told many a hood rat, "no gun for you".
I sign off on about 1000 4473s every year, and I dont get more than 5 or 6 traces a year, so I go with my gut.
You do almost twice the volume I do. I've been doing it for 11 months and I'm on 4473 #566.
Sounds like the "gut instinct" policy is a good one... and often times it's simply a judgment call.
Fortunately, I haven't had to do any trace requests yet.
6/23/2011 11:25:03 PM
Originally Posted By Dragracer_Art:
Honest and sincere question. Please don't be offended.
How does it feel knowing you may have just transferred a gun to someone that shouldn't have one ?
This is a struggle I have sometimes... and is exactly why I run such a tight ship.
I require any internet buyers to come to the shop first. I won't do any transfers over the phone unless it's someone I know personally. There are also certain guns I won't transfer at all. Jennings, raven, Hipoint, Jimenez, etc...
If someone calls on the phone and wants a gun shipped in... I first ask what kind of gun... then I ask if it's coming from another FFL. If they answer those two questions to my satisfaction... I then tell them they need to come in to my shop with the FFL/FAX/Email/phone number info.
In your case, it reads to me that the girl ordered the gun... then dirtball showed up with her to get it.
Had that trick been pulled on me, I probably wouldn't have transferred the gun to either of them. I'm not sure what the demographics are like in your area... but where I am, there is a high concentration of gangs and shitbags. If there is even the slightest hint of trouble with a gun transaction, I turn into the gunshop version of a Seinfeld "Soup Nazi"... and it's "NO GUN FO YOU".
Out of approx 600 background checks, I've gotten three delayed and one denied. Of the three delayed, I canceled the sale on all but one, as he was a uniformed Police Officer.
Honest and sincere question. Please don't be offended.
How does it feel knowing you may have just transferred a gun to someone that shouldn't have one ?
This is a struggle I have sometimes... and is exactly why I run such a tight ship.
I require any internet buyers to come to the shop first. I won't do any transfers over the phone unless it's someone I know personally. There are also certain guns I won't transfer at all. Jennings, raven, Hipoint, Jimenez, etc...
If someone calls on the phone and wants a gun shipped in... I first ask what kind of gun... then I ask if it's coming from another FFL. If they answer those two questions to my satisfaction... I then tell them they need to come in to my shop with the FFL/FAX/Email/phone number info.
In your case, it reads to me that the girl ordered the gun... then dirtball showed up with her to get it.
Had that trick been pulled on me, I probably wouldn't have transferred the gun to either of them. I'm not sure what the demographics are like in your area... but where I am, there is a high concentration of gangs and shitbags. If there is even the slightest hint of trouble with a gun transaction, I turn into the gunshop version of a Seinfeld "Soup Nazi"... and it's "NO GUN FO YOU".
Out of approx 600 background checks, I've gotten three delayed and one denied. Of the three delayed, I canceled the sale on all but one, as he was a uniformed Police Officer.
Just curious, why didn't you ride out the delays? I have been delayed before and I have no criminal past. I am also in the US Army with a security clearance (I have heard rumors that some security clearances may cause a delay). What if someone has a UPIN?
I wonder what would happen to those with a common name, like John Smith. What if they don't provide a SSN and are delayed?
6/24/2011 2:14:57 PM
Originally Posted By rockasons:
Just curious, why didn't you ride out the delays? I have been delayed before and I have no criminal past. I am also in the US Army with a security clearance (I have heard rumors that some security clearances may cause a delay). What if someone has a UPIN?
I wonder what would happen to those with a common name, like John Smith. What if they don't provide a SSN and are delayed?
Just curious, why didn't you ride out the delays? I have been delayed before and I have no criminal past. I am also in the US Army with a security clearance (I have heard rumors that some security clearances may cause a delay). What if someone has a UPIN?
I wonder what would happen to those with a common name, like John Smith. What if they don't provide a SSN and are delayed?
I canceled because after informing of the delay status, the customers had questionable reactions. (not surprised or disappointed)
One I believe had state residency issues and may have held a residence in another state... the other I came to find out long after the fact, had DUI problems in another state... and has subsequently had his LTCF revoked, guns confiscated and PFA issued for spousal abuse.
Both were judgment calls on my part, and I was proven correct on both of them.
My gut is almost always dead-on when it comes to problem people. Just had to throw out another straw purchase couple 5 minutes ago.
Quite honestly, if I had known I'd be dealing with so many criminals and shitstains for customers, I probably would have opted for another line of work.
6/24/2011 2:36:08 PM
Originally Posted By Dragracer_Art:
Quite honestly, if I had known I'd be dealing with so many criminals and shitstains for customers, I probably would have opted for another line of work.
Quite honestly, if I had known I'd be dealing with so many criminals and shitstains for customers, I probably would have opted for another line of work.
Now you know why the people behind gun counters are so grumpy....
6/24/2011 3:26:09 PM
Originally Posted By bigbore:
Now you know why the people behind gun counters are so grumpy....
Originally Posted By Dragracer_Art:
Quite honestly, if I had known I'd be dealing with so many criminals and shitstains for customers, I probably would have opted for another line of work.
Quite honestly, if I had known I'd be dealing with so many criminals and shitstains for customers, I probably would have opted for another line of work.
Now you know why the people behind gun counters are so grumpy....
Yep... and I'm certain it's the reason why so many shops decide to close the doors and go out of business.
I now understand why everyone (other dealers) told me I was crazy for opening up a gun shop. I'm seeing firsthand all the crappy things associated with the business.
6/25/2011 1:37:03 AM
Originally Posted By Dragracer_Art:
I canceled because after informing of the delay status, the customers had questionable reactions. (not surprised or disappointed)
One I believe had state residency issues and may have held a residence in another state... the other I came to find out long after the fact, had DUI problems in another state... and has subsequently had his LTCF revoked, guns confiscated and PFA issued for spousal abuse.
Both were judgment calls on my part, and I was proven correct on both of them.
My gut is almost always dead-on when it comes to problem people. Just had to throw out another straw purchase couple 5 minutes ago.
Quite honestly, if I had known I'd be dealing with so many criminals and shitstains for customers, I probably would have opted for another line of work.
Originally Posted By rockasons:
Just curious, why didn't you ride out the delays? I have been delayed before and I have no criminal past. I am also in the US Army with a security clearance (I have heard rumors that some security clearances may cause a delay). What if someone has a UPIN?
I wonder what would happen to those with a common name, like John Smith. What if they don't provide a SSN and are delayed?
Just curious, why didn't you ride out the delays? I have been delayed before and I have no criminal past. I am also in the US Army with a security clearance (I have heard rumors that some security clearances may cause a delay). What if someone has a UPIN?
I wonder what would happen to those with a common name, like John Smith. What if they don't provide a SSN and are delayed?
I canceled because after informing of the delay status, the customers had questionable reactions. (not surprised or disappointed)
One I believe had state residency issues and may have held a residence in another state... the other I came to find out long after the fact, had DUI problems in another state... and has subsequently had his LTCF revoked, guns confiscated and PFA issued for spousal abuse.
Both were judgment calls on my part, and I was proven correct on both of them.
My gut is almost always dead-on when it comes to problem people. Just had to throw out another straw purchase couple 5 minutes ago.
Quite honestly, if I had known I'd be dealing with so many criminals and shitstains for customers, I probably would have opted for another line of work.
True....your gut instinct is almost always correct.
6/25/2011 9:42:12 AM
Originally Posted By Dragracer_Art:
Quite honestly, if I had known I'd be dealing with so many criminals and shitstains for customers, I probably would have opted for another line of work.
Quite honestly, if I had known I'd be dealing with so many criminals and shitstains for customers, I probably would have opted for another line of work.
I think that your description of your clientele stems from your location and the reputation of the prior owner. In three years we've only had one real a$$hat to deal with.
6/25/2011 1:17:08 PM
Originally Posted By bigbore:
Now you know why the people behind gun counters are so grumpy....
Originally Posted By Dragracer_Art:
Quite honestly, if I had known I'd be dealing with so many criminals and shitstains for customers, I probably would have opted for another line of work.
Quite honestly, if I had known I'd be dealing with so many criminals and shitstains for customers, I probably would have opted for another line of work.
Now you know why the people behind gun counters are so grumpy....
Seriously? If I was "grumpy" behind the counter then I would have no customers. In fact this is exactly why I started my OWN business. Thanks "Grumpy" gun store owners...I now have your clients!!!
6/26/2011 1:46:18 PM
Originally Posted By TXGUNNER308:
Seriously? If I was "grumpy" behind the counter then I would have no customers. In fact this is exactly why I started my OWN business. Thanks "Grumpy" gun store owners...I now have your clients!!!
Originally Posted By bigbore:
Now you know why the people behind gun counters are so grumpy....
Originally Posted By Dragracer_Art:
Quite honestly, if I had known I'd be dealing with so many criminals and shitstains for customers, I probably would have opted for another line of work.
Quite honestly, if I had known I'd be dealing with so many criminals and shitstains for customers, I probably would have opted for another line of work.
Now you know why the people behind gun counters are so grumpy....
Seriously? If I was "grumpy" behind the counter then I would have no customers. In fact this is exactly why I started my OWN business. Thanks "Grumpy" gun store owners...I now have your clients!!!
My top salesmen for the last three years:
1. Barry Obama
2. Nancy Pelosi
3. The two "brick and mortar" gunstores here in Plano.
6/26/2011 2:23:42 PM
Originally Posted By DogtownTom:
3. The two "brick and mortar" gunstores here in Plano.
3. The two "brick and mortar" gunstores here in Plano.
1) Bullet Trap - Needed some Bianchi Speed 38/357 Loaders once. Went there. $5.95 or whatever. No problem, give him cash, he refused to ring it up without me giving him full name, address, phone, etc. Ordered online instead.
2) Gun Master - Been completely ignored many times. Last time was when I wanted to buy a a Dillion 650. Ordered online instead.
Do not frequent either store anymore. Even if Spouse needs to go farm store next to Gunmasters, I juist stay in car and watch Black Hawk down on DVD.
6/26/2011 9:25:26 PM
Since I do this thing out of my house, I require many a thing from anyone using me as a transfer dealer. I think you did the right thing. As a business owner you have to look after the best interests of your business and I think the last thing you want is your shops picture being shown on the local news as the one who sold the guy (doesn't matter if you only transferred the gun, mouth breathing newscasters never let facts get in the way of a good story) a gun that was used in a triple homicide at a senior citizens' community. Erring on the side of caution doesn't hurt and maybe word will get around that you don't tolerate shitheads and they won't come around.
7/8/2011 4:21:05 PM
Originally Posted By DogtownTom:
My top salesmen for the last three years:
1. Barry Obama
2. Nancy Pelosi
3. The two "brick and mortar" gunstores here in Plano.
Originally Posted By TXGUNNER308:
Seriously? If I was "grumpy" behind the counter then I would have no customers. In fact this is exactly why I started my OWN business. Thanks "Grumpy" gun store owners...I now have your clients!!!
Originally Posted By bigbore:
Now you know why the people behind gun counters are so grumpy....
Originally Posted By Dragracer_Art:
Quite honestly, if I had known I'd be dealing with so many criminals and shitstains for customers, I probably would have opted for another line of work.
Quite honestly, if I had known I'd be dealing with so many criminals and shitstains for customers, I probably would have opted for another line of work.
Now you know why the people behind gun counters are so grumpy....
Seriously? If I was "grumpy" behind the counter then I would have no customers. In fact this is exactly why I started my OWN business. Thanks "Grumpy" gun store owners...I now have your clients!!!
My top salesmen for the last three years:
1. Barry Obama
2. Nancy Pelosi
3. The two "brick and mortar" gunstores here in Plano.
+1
+1
7/12/2011 5:44:38 AM
Originally Posted By Dragracer_Art:
I canceled because after informing of the delay status, the customers had questionable reactions. (not surprised or disappointed)
One I believe had state residency issues and may have held a residence in another state... the other I came to find out long after the fact, had DUI problems in another state... and has subsequently had his LTCF revoked, guns confiscated and PFA issued for spousal abuse.
Both were judgment calls on my part, and I was proven correct on both of them.
My gut is almost always dead-on when it comes to problem people. Just had to throw out another straw purchase couple 5 minutes ago.
Quite honestly, if I had known I'd be dealing with so many criminals and shitstains for customers, I probably would have opted for another line of work.
Originally Posted By rockasons:
Just curious, why didn't you ride out the delays? I have been delayed before and I have no criminal past. I am also in the US Army with a security clearance (I have heard rumors that some security clearances may cause a delay). What if someone has a UPIN?
I wonder what would happen to those with a common name, like John Smith. What if they don't provide a SSN and are delayed?
Just curious, why didn't you ride out the delays? I have been delayed before and I have no criminal past. I am also in the US Army with a security clearance (I have heard rumors that some security clearances may cause a delay). What if someone has a UPIN?
I wonder what would happen to those with a common name, like John Smith. What if they don't provide a SSN and are delayed?
I canceled because after informing of the delay status, the customers had questionable reactions. (not surprised or disappointed)
One I believe had state residency issues and may have held a residence in another state... the other I came to find out long after the fact, had DUI problems in another state... and has subsequently had his LTCF revoked, guns confiscated and PFA issued for spousal abuse.
Both were judgment calls on my part, and I was proven correct on both of them.
My gut is almost always dead-on when it comes to problem people. Just had to throw out another straw purchase couple 5 minutes ago.
Quite honestly, if I had known I'd be dealing with so many criminals and shitstains for customers, I probably would have opted for another line of work.
Some people aren't surprised or disappointed at delays because it happens to them a lot. I know two gun shop owners that frequently get delays. I know cops that get delays about 1/3 of the time. A non-US citizen (permanent alien/green card holder) will very often get a delay. A lot of our military customers get delays for whatever reason. Security clearances are kinda likely as their information is probably in the protected files the regular examiners can't get into. Even with a UPIN the person will often get delays. I know one guy that has the same name as a murderer in a different state, he usually gets a one or two day delay.
9/13/2011 2:44:04 AM
Originally Posted By bigbore:
In the last few weeks, I've had a few transfers from on-line sales. The pistol comes in with a girls name as the buyer. Each time the girl and friend who is a male come in to get the gun. The girl asks for the gun, fills out the 4473, and pays the transfer fee. No "obvious reason" for concern.
Last week a pretty, little, well groomed, girl came in to pick up a transfer with her filthy hood rat male companion. The guy said something about it being a birthday present.
I said OK, you fill out the paperwork.
He went off on a rant that he was told buy the guy who sold the gun (I'm right on the border with MI) that anyone can buy a gun for someone and give it to them as a gift.
I said that was correct, as long as the person receiving the gun would pass the check to buy the gun.
I finally said the only way I'm releasing this gun is of you both fill out the form, and both pass.
I explained to the girl that if she was buying the gun for him because he couldn't buy it himself, she was committing a felony.
He finally agreed to fill out the 4473 and was delayed. She passed. Hopefully I'll get a resolution on his before his pick up date.
I never really though of this until now, but its got me perplexed. I have no problem denying a sale when 2 people are in my store making(what I believe) is a straw purchase. But now Ezekiel can borrow his girls CC, order online and have her pick it up and to deliver to him.
PS DOB of the guy is 10/10 - birthday present?
In the last few weeks, I've had a few transfers from on-line sales. The pistol comes in with a girls name as the buyer. Each time the girl and friend who is a male come in to get the gun. The girl asks for the gun, fills out the 4473, and pays the transfer fee. No "obvious reason" for concern.
Last week a pretty, little, well groomed, girl came in to pick up a transfer with her filthy hood rat male companion. The guy said something about it being a birthday present.
I said OK, you fill out the paperwork.
He went off on a rant that he was told buy the guy who sold the gun (I'm right on the border with MI) that anyone can buy a gun for someone and give it to them as a gift.
I said that was correct, as long as the person receiving the gun would pass the check to buy the gun.
I finally said the only way I'm releasing this gun is of you both fill out the form, and both pass.
I explained to the girl that if she was buying the gun for him because he couldn't buy it himself, she was committing a felony.
He finally agreed to fill out the 4473 and was delayed. She passed. Hopefully I'll get a resolution on his before his pick up date.
I never really though of this until now, but its got me perplexed. I have no problem denying a sale when 2 people are in my store making(what I believe) is a straw purchase. But now Ezekiel can borrow his girls CC, order online and have her pick it up and to deliver to him.
PS DOB of the guy is 10/10 - birthday present?
Very interesting, and I like you would be nervous about giving them the gun.
But how can you do the check on both of them ? I thought you had to be selling a gun to do the check and couldn't do them on a whim.
You're selling one gun but you have two buyers ??
9/13/2011 2:48:28 AM
Originally Posted By Dragracer_Art:
Honest and sincere question. Please don't be offended.
How does it feel knowing you may have just transferred a gun to someone that shouldn't have one ?
This is a struggle I have sometimes... and is exactly why I run such a tight ship.
I require any internet buyers to come to the shop first. I won't do any transfers over the phone unless it's someone I know personally. There are also certain guns I won't transfer at all. Jennings, raven, Hipoint, Jimenez, etc...
If someone calls on the phone and wants a gun shipped in... I first ask what kind of gun... then I ask if it's coming from another FFL. If they answer those two questions to my satisfaction... I then tell them they need to come in to my shop with the FFL/FAX/Email/phone number info.
In your case, it reads to me that the girl ordered the gun... then dirtball showed up with her to get it.
Had that trick been pulled on me, I probably wouldn't have transferred the gun to either of them. I'm not sure what the demographics are like in your area... but where I am, there is a high concentration of gangs and shitbags. If there is even the slightest hint of trouble with a gun transaction, I turn into the gunshop version of a Seinfeld "Soup Nazi"... and it's "NO GUN FO YOU".
Out of approx 600 background checks, I've gotten three delayed and one denied. Of the three delayed, I canceled the sale on all but one, as he was a uniformed Police Officer.
Honest and sincere question. Please don't be offended.
How does it feel knowing you may have just transferred a gun to someone that shouldn't have one ?
This is a struggle I have sometimes... and is exactly why I run such a tight ship.
I require any internet buyers to come to the shop first. I won't do any transfers over the phone unless it's someone I know personally. There are also certain guns I won't transfer at all. Jennings, raven, Hipoint, Jimenez, etc...
If someone calls on the phone and wants a gun shipped in... I first ask what kind of gun... then I ask if it's coming from another FFL. If they answer those two questions to my satisfaction... I then tell them they need to come in to my shop with the FFL/FAX/Email/phone number info.
In your case, it reads to me that the girl ordered the gun... then dirtball showed up with her to get it.
Had that trick been pulled on me, I probably wouldn't have transferred the gun to either of them. I'm not sure what the demographics are like in your area... but where I am, there is a high concentration of gangs and shitbags. If there is even the slightest hint of trouble with a gun transaction, I turn into the gunshop version of a Seinfeld "Soup Nazi"... and it's "NO GUN FO YOU".
Out of approx 600 background checks, I've gotten three delayed and one denied. Of the three delayed, I canceled the sale on all but one, as he was a uniformed Police Officer.
Why ? I understand running a tight ship, but anyone can be delayed without real cause (common name,etc ) . Was it a gut feeling based on their demeanor ?
9/13/2011 2:57:26 AM
You know, at least you have a modicum of control over it.
I worked at a chain of gun stores, one of which was in a pretty ghetto area. Pretty much sling guns to whoever walks in or walk.
If it hit 5 days on a delay, get it out the door.
I worked at a chain of gun stores, one of which was in a pretty ghetto area. Pretty much sling guns to whoever walks in or walk.
If it hit 5 days on a delay, get it out the door.
