Different addresses on 4473
I've got a long time customer that recently built a new house and moved in. When he filled out his 4473, he listed his new address but his drivers license has his old address. Do I have any problems here. I know the license has to be valid, not expired, but how about the address. I told him I had to verify this before I submitted. Thanks.
You need a government issued document with the address that he put on the 4473.
A tax bill would do.
A hunting or fishing license will do fine, too.
I was in this situation once. I had just bought a house and was in the process of moving in. My wife and I bought a rifle on our honeymoon. We had a copy of the deed with us and the FFL was satisfied with that.
I see this all the time. I'm firm on it. They either need to show me another government document with their right address or they need to go get their license changed. In my state, the driver's license office will attach an official sticker onto the back of your license with your new address. I will accept that. Otherwise, it only cost about $10 to get a new license.
The way I look at it, a responsible person is going to update their documents as soon as they move. It's their responsibility to do this. It's not up to me to break the rules so they don't have to take care of business.
Originally Posted By ttolhurst:
A hunting or fishing license will do fine, too.
In most States, a hunting or fishing license is not issued by a government agency. You get it at your local sporting goods store or other retailer. It is authorized by a government agency but not issued by them.
I'd assume if he didn't change his DL, then he didn't update his passport or any other gov't ID, so I'd send him to get his address ammended / changed on his DL and run it with the correct address.
The address on the DL should match the address on the 4473.
Another good alternate government issued document would be a water utility bill as long as it is issued by your municipality...example "City of Dallas"
Originally Posted By EOD_Guy:
In most States, a hunting or fishing license is not issued by a government agency. You get it at your local sporting goods store or other retailer. It is authorized by a government agency but not issued by them.
ATF disagrees with you. From the February 2011 FFL Newsletter:
Hunting Licenses Used as Government Identification
Hunting licenses may serve as a valid identification, for the purposes of the Brady Law, 18 U.S.C. 922(t) provided the license meets the definition. As with other identification documents, hunting licenses may be supplemented with other government issued identification. Clarification on this topic is forthcoming.
Originally Posted By TXGUNNER308:
Another good alternate government issued document would be a water utility bill as long as it is issued by your municipality...example "City of Dallas"
For the sake of argumernt, I wonder how they would that apply to (public utilities) that are chartered as municipal corporations under state law and are designated to service geographic areas, including that within which the individual resides (though that municipal subdivision is its own, seperate, municipal corporation)? (An example in Connecticut would be MDC....or even my City's water Dept., which services several other area towns by agreement , issuing residents thereof statement identifying their residential address- though by a municipaltiy other than the one within which they reside)...
Originally Posted By ttolhurst:
Originally Posted By EOD_Guy:
In most States, a hunting or fishing license is not issued by a government agency. You get it at your local sporting goods store or other retailer. It is authorized by a government agency but not issued by them.
ATF disagrees with you. From the February 2011 FFL Newsletter:
Hunting Licenses Used as Government Identification
Hunting licenses may serve as a valid identification, for the purposes of the Brady Law, 18 U.S.C. 922(t) provided the license meets the definition. As with other identification documents, hunting licenses may be supplemented with other government issued identification. Clarification on this topic is forthcoming.
EODGUY-
In Connecticut at least, the issuing authority on sporting licenses has always been the state Department of Environmental Protection (now Dept. of Energy and Environmental Protection in light of the state agency restructuring). When I would by licenses from the City/Town clerks office, or a retail vendor (e.g. Dicks, KMART, Walmart, gun shop, etc....) they were only acting as an agent of DEP- licensure was the same as if I had went to a DEP office and bought it there. Every other state that I have purchased sporting licenses in has been similar. It's like renewing your DL at the AAA office–– the issuing authority is still the Dept. of Motor Vehicles. AAA is an agent authorized by the state to process and issue renewal licenses on its behalf.
Originally Posted By ttolhurst:
Originally Posted By EOD_Guy:
In most States, a hunting or fishing license is not issued by a government agency. You get it at your local sporting goods store or other retailer. It is authorized by a government agency but not issued by them.
ATF disagrees with you. From the February 2011 FFL Newsletter:
Hunting Licenses Used as Government Identification
Hunting licenses may serve as a valid identification, for the purposes of the Brady Law, 18 U.S.C. 922(t) provided the license meets the definition. As with other identification documents, hunting licenses may be supplemented with other government issued identification. Clarification on this topic is forthcoming.
I wish they would clarify the topic like they said they would. There was nothing in the September FFL Newsletter that I saw.
In California, BATF said that a fishing or hunting license issued at your local sporting goods store was not valid as ID under 18USC, but that one issued by DFG online was valid since it was actually issued by a State agency.
Yeah. Of course, ATF can be a poor source of information sometimes. My IOI told me one could not have firearms shipped to an address other than the licensed premises address. She told me this because an ATF attorney in the Boston field office said it was so. I had to direct her to the March 2006 FFL Newsletter which clearly stated that it was entirely permissible.
It's sad, but take what they tell you with a grain of salt. They don't always know their own rules.
I'm not an FFL, but I used a vehicle registration once with the current address.
Originally Posted By Bladeswitcher:
The way I look at it, a responsible person is going to update their documents as soon as they move. It's their responsibility to do this. It's not up to me to break the rules so they don't have to take care of business.
Ohio seems to be kind of erratic about it. When I moved, I updated with the DMV and they gave me a separate piece of paper with the new address to carry along with my license. When I got married and my wife moved in, they gave her a whole new license with the new address. A couple of my friends that have moved and updated were told to tell people that it's incorrect and give the correct one verbally, that new licenses aren't run just for address changes.
So, looks like YMMV in OH... Best bet may be to update your address and then conveniently lose your license the next day so you have to get a new one. :-)
