AR15.Com Archives
 What happened to the Ruger 9mm Carbine?
Tirador223  [Team Member]
4/7/2011 9:40:35 AM
I know this rifle has been gone from the Ruger lineup for a while, but I have to wonder why? I only examined it one time in a gun store and recall a rather M1 carbine-looking solid little rifle with a typical Ruger heavy duty feel. I never see them on the used market.

Why was this design unpopular and didn't sell? How long have they been discontinued?





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Justin-Kase  [Life Member]
4/7/2011 10:07:08 AM
There were two problems with the design is it wasn't tacticool enough and it was a pistol caliber.
Ruger launched it right at the time when most people figured out that if you're going to carry a carbine sized package you might as well carry a full power version.

It's a good sturdy gun it's niche was just too limited and shrinking.

Every once in a while Summit Gunbroker will have some trade ins and you can find them on the auction sites also.
RedFalconBill  [Team Member]
4/7/2011 11:17:40 AM
Both the PC9 and the PC4 were discontinued in 2006.

They combined production, after 10 years, was less than 40,000.

In the last 5 years of production, the PC9 sold a little over 5,000 units and the PC4 sold a little over 6,000 units.

IOW, they did not sell at all in the 2000's.
wallym777  [Member]
4/7/2011 11:30:25 AM
I like mine, a fun gun, and have a P89 to match it.
Gamma762  [Team Member]
4/7/2011 12:17:20 PM
I have a PC9 and it's a cool little rifle. I wish there were night sights for it, I never found any though.
HardShell  [Moderator]
4/7/2011 12:47:50 PM

Originally Posted By wallym777:
I like mine, a fun gun, and have a P89 to match it.

Same here, except a P95 paired with it. A bit heavy (maybe) for a PCC, but very solid and durable.






Lazyshooter  [Member]
4/8/2011 10:51:21 AM
I think the leo market for these, pretty much dried up.
It was a good concept; have a pistol and a carbine using the same magazines, and to me, it's still viable, but leo has gone to the 223 Remington big time with their patrol rifles.

The ones with the standard rifle sights, are nice. They had a couple of ghost ring models over the years too.
The one I have shot in 9mm was extremely accurate.

I wish they had done away with the proprietary scope mounting system, and went with a four drilled hole design, like the Marlin lever action guns.
I also wish they had inlet some portions of the front part of the stock, for short pic. or weaver rail pieces, like the Beretta CX4.
It would have been nice, if they weighed about a pound less also.

BTW, there were two different buttstock double magazine pouches available, and neither one, (I don't think), are made anymore.
Does anyone have packaging to say what model or part numbers, these pouches were? I think one was made by uncle mikes.
JJREA  [Member]
4/8/2011 1:57:17 PM
I've always wanted one. How heavy are they? I'm not against 9mm in a carbine. I think the Mp5 was very popular for a reason. Albeit it's FA. But still. I would think it would be every bit as affective as a pistol as a defensive weapon, if it runs good. And after shooting AR's for a while, I have this thing about liking a traditionally stocked weapon a little better. That's just me. I think they are handier. My M1 carbine would be my favorite rifle if I could get mine to run and the other thing I don't like about it is that the pistol grip is so much longer than most stocks. My fingers, which aren't that short, seem to have to reach too much for the trigger. The profile is just a little long. An M1A and Garand has less reach. Or most bolt actions. I'm not sure why they profiled it that way.
Gamma762  [Team Member]
4/8/2011 2:19:59 PM
Originally Posted By Lazyshooter:
The ones with the standard rifle sights, are nice. They had a couple of ghost ring models over the years too.
The one I have shot in 9mm was extremely accurate.

Mine originally had the standard open sights, I bought the accessory ghost ring sight retrofit kit and like the ghost ring setup a lot better. Mine is very accurate as well.

Mostly has been run with MecGar 20 round mags, I had some prebans during the ban. 20s were easier to find than 15s. I wish I had a 30 to try, but they seem to be discontinued as I never see 30s anymore.
Lazyshooter  [Member]
4/8/2011 4:33:25 PM
Originally Posted By Gamma762:
Originally Posted By Lazyshooter:
The ones with the standard rifle sights, are nice. They had a couple of ghost ring models over the years too.
The one I have shot in 9mm was extremely accurate.

Mine originally had the standard open sights, I bought the accessory ghost ring sight retrofit kit and like the ghost ring setup a lot better. Mine is very accurate as well.

Mostly has been run with MecGar 20 round mags, I had some prebans during the ban. 20s were easier to find than 15s. I wish I had a 30 to try, but they seem to be discontinued as I never see 30s anymore.


I tried the ProMag 32? round mag. one time, and I didn't have any luck. The mag. inserted and locked in perfectly, the bolt closed on an empty mag. perfectly, but would not close even with a shove of the bolt, on a full mag. I downloaded one round at a time for about six rounds, until I gave up and moved on to another gun. Haven't experimented anymore. I think the metal in the feed lips on these were maybe a little thin, and fully loaded, they spread apart. Some time I will have to measure the mag. loaded and unloaded, if I can find the thing.
It could even be that the one I had didn't seat high enough in the chamber, (I don't remember looking). Who knows?
sic_ness  [Member]
4/9/2011 1:59:30 PM
Honestly, if they were still manufactured and were available for about $300-400, I'd buy one of the 9mm carbines.

There's precisely ONE on Gunbroker right now for $999

I'll probably just get a 9mm upper for my AR instead, but it's nice to dream.
REDHORSE  [Member]
4/10/2011 2:03:11 PM
I have a couple PC4s and a PC9. A few of them have ghost ring sights.

Added a PC4 GH for $280 from GB (couldn't pass up on the deal, even though I already had one just like it) and the PC9 $460 last year. So, If your patient you can still pick them relatively cheap from GB.

My 1st PC4 GH (1 owner <200rds) and PC9 were in excellent condition, very few rounds fired through them. They looked new.

The 2nd PC4 GH for $280, looked like it was a range gun that was never cleaned. I replaced a cracked barrel band and a filler plug for the rear sight dovetail that was missing. Parts were cheap and available from Ruger. After clean up it looked as good as new. I thought I would have to refinish it, but it was just dirt and carbon from never been cleaned. It's got the lightest trigger pull of the three from being shot so much.
crazytuco  [Member]
4/11/2011 5:34:51 PM
From what I understand, the goal of this weapon was to attract LEO buyers who would like the idea of a carbine/pistol combo that used the same ammunition and magazines. I honestly think that sales on the civilian market were a secondary consideration. The problem with this sales model was that there weren't all that many LE agencies that carried a Ruger P-series weapon as standard issue. This was released well after Glock became the go-to gun for LE. For agencies to make the most of this platform, they'd also have to have a supply line that included Ruger P-series pistols. I'm sure Ruger was hoping that some agencies would look at this and not only buy some PC rifles, but also switch over to P-series pistols as well.

Part of it's lack of popularity on the civilian market, along with what is mentioned above in other posts, is that the recoil mechanism is inside the stock. This really put off a lot of aftermarket stock development as no one really wanted to mess around with it.

It's too bad that it never really took off. I've got a PC4 that's a real hoot to shoot. It will feed and fire anything I put in it. Hot loads, WWB, reloads, whatever. Chomp, chomp, chomp. It is heavy compared to just about every other gun I own that is about that size, but it's built like a brick shithouse and I think that's part of it. Just like any other Ruger I've ever owned it seems like every part on it is bigger and stronger than it needs to be and Form Follows Function is the rule and goes unbroken.
DanTSX  [Team Member]
4/12/2011 7:04:09 AM
They pop up in small to medium sized batches on the lightly used market with some frequency. Probably from either LEO, demo, or LEO supply/distributor sources. Cabelas had an intake of them a few months back, so did summit gun broker. Looking at $450 for average price with a $25 variation.


I was going to buy a 9mm version, but my Sub2k came up instead.
duncan  [Member]
4/14/2011 2:26:32 AM
Originally Posted By Justin-Kase:
There were two problems with the design is it wasn't tacticool enough and it was a pistol caliber.
Ruger launched it right at the time when most people figured out that if you're going to carry a carbine sized package you might as well carry a full power version.

It's a good sturdy gun it's niche was just too limited and shrinking.

Every once in a while Summit Gunbroker will have some trade ins and you can find them on the auction sites also.


+1 - the AR-15 PCC busted them out.
Moose  [Team Member]
4/29/2011 5:13:04 PM
Originally Posted By Lazyshooter:

BTW, there were two different buttstock double magazine pouches available, and neither one, (I don't think), are made anymore.
Does anyone have packaging to say what model or part numbers, these pouches were? I think one was made by uncle mikes.


One was from Uncle Mike's, the other was from Gould and Goodrich. I have the Uncle Mike's, but the velcro is so worn out I wouldn't trust them to stay closed with heavy activity.

The only time I've seen either of them available for sale was through CDNN a few years ago, and they came with an LEO tradein carbine attached to them.

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85blazer  [Team Member]
5/2/2011 7:20:10 PM
Originally Posted By sic_ness:
Honestly, if they were still manufactured and were available for about $300-400, I'd buy one of the 9mm carbines.

There's precisely ONE on Gunbroker right now for $999

I'll probably just get a 9mm upper for my AR instead, but it's nice to dream.


One in the EE for 500right now.
I always thought the PC9/.40 carbine was cool and remember reading about them in gun rags back in the day.
Moose  [Team Member]
5/4/2011 12:04:59 AM
Originally Posted By Moose:
Originally Posted By Lazyshooter:

BTW, there were two different buttstock double magazine pouches available, and neither one, (I don't think), are made anymore.
Does anyone have packaging to say what model or part numbers, these pouches were? I think one was made by uncle mikes.


One was from Uncle Mike's, the other was from Gould and Goodrich. I have the Uncle Mike's, but the velcro is so worn out I wouldn't trust them to stay closed with heavy activity.



Here's mine with the Uncle Mike's:



And here's the G&G:




ETA:Just realized the pics also show the differences between the two versions of Ghost Ring sights.

ETA2: also the difference between a 20rd mag and a 15rd mag.
HardShell  [Moderator]
5/4/2011 10:41:19 AM

Originally Posted By Moose:

...

Here's mine with the Uncle Mike's:

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5109/5685607767_3d6e2d7e76_z.jpg

...

I have that same pouch on one of my Marlin Camp Carbines –– wish I had a half-dozen more just like it, hate that they are OOP.

Lazyshooter  [Member]
5/4/2011 9:48:49 PM
Originally Posted By Moose:
Originally Posted By Moose:
Originally Posted By Lazyshooter:

BTW, there were two different buttstock double magazine pouches available, and neither one, (I don't think), are made anymore.
Does anyone have packaging to say what model or part numbers, these pouches were? I think one was made by uncle mikes.


One was from Uncle Mike's, the other was from Gould and Goodrich. I have the Uncle Mike's, but the velcro is so worn out I wouldn't trust them to stay closed with heavy activity.



Here's mine with the Uncle Mike's:

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5109/5685607767_3d6e2d7e76_z.jpg

And here's the G&G:

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4115/4898930437_a5e4ac6abb_z.jpg


ETA:Just realized the pics also show the differences between the two versions of Ghost Ring sights.

ETA2: also the difference between a 20rd mag and a 15rd mag.


Yep. Those are the two, that I'll have to be on the lookout for. Thanks.
Firecop203  [Member]
5/5/2011 11:35:15 AM
I had one in 9mm and loved it. Shooting full power loads, it was like shooting a .22. It's one of those guns that I regret getting rid of.
tfod  [Team Member]
5/5/2011 12:30:29 PM
Ruger's pride killed it. If they made it to accept other pistol mags (Glock, Sig.....) from the factory they would have sold more. A PCC offers so little more in performance over a pistol that unless it accepts my carry pistol magazine, there is no point in having one.

It was a good well made carbine, but not everyone carries a Ruger 9mm pistol. If they made it to accept Glock magazines or if Marlin brought back the camp carbine with a Glock magazine, I would buy one.
mak0  [Team Member]
5/5/2011 5:55:19 PM
I have a PC4 and I like it. If Ruger brought it back and modified it to take glock mags they would sell a ton of them, especially if they kept the price under $500.
Hawgleg44  [Team Member]
5/5/2011 10:44:26 PM
Originally Posted By mak0:
I have a PC4 and I like it. If Ruger brought it back and modified it to take glock mags they would sell a ton of them, especially if they kept the price under $500.


I spoke with an engineer about this very issue during a discussion about the lack of LE sales. The magwell is part of the stock, so it would be a simple modification to make.

The reason Ruger would not produce the PC Carbine to use another brand magazine is because they cannot control the quality or specs of those magazines. That way, if someone complains about their PC Carbine not functioning and they are using aftermarket magazines, all Ruger has to say is to try Ruger mags, and i'm sure 99 times out of 100 it would solve the issue.

That said, I'd love to have a Ruger 9mm PC that takes Glock mags.

Moose  [Team Member]
5/5/2011 11:25:33 PM
There was a company that did Glock mag conversions for a few years, but then they stopped. Lone Wolf, IIRC.

So there are some out there. Never actually saw one myself, though.

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RangemasterP226  [Team Member]
5/5/2011 11:51:58 PM
I have a PC4, I love it but I'm going to sell it for a Beretta CX4 carbine. The Ruger is great, and like others have said, if it took Glock mags, I'd keep it.
PC if I recall, stood for either Patrol Carbine or Police Carbine. Ruger designed it to have the same controls as the 870, but again, departments went enmass to the AR system.
HardShell  [Moderator]
5/6/2011 10:01:33 AM

Originally Posted By Hawgleg44:

I spoke with an engineer about this very issue during a discussion about the lack of LE sales. The magwell is part of the stock, so it would be a simple modification to make.

The reason Ruger would not produce the PC Carbine to use another brand magazine is because they cannot control the quality or specs of those magazines. That way, if someone complains about their PC Carbine not functioning and they are using aftermarket magazines, all Ruger has to say is to try Ruger mags, and i'm sure 99 times out of 100 it would solve the issue...

Coincidentally, I have found that to be very true with my own PC-9 –– it runs 100% with factory Ruger mags and I haven't found an extended aftermarket magazine yet that works well with it (even the ones that work just fine in my P95). In contrast, my 9mm Camp Carbines and my wife's old SUB-9 work very well with most aftermarket S&W mags.

Moose  [Team Member]
5/6/2011 10:14:46 AM
Originally Posted By HardShell:

...it runs 100% with factory Ruger mags and I haven't found an extended aftermarket magazine yet that works well with it (even the ones that work just fine in my P95).



Have you tried MecGar 20s?

I have a few I have never had problems with. In fact, they are the primary mags for mine.
HardShell  [Moderator]
5/6/2011 10:39:30 AM

Originally Posted By Moose:
Originally Posted By HardShell:

...it runs 100% with factory Ruger mags and I haven't found an extended aftermarket magazine yet that works well with it (even the ones that work just fine in my P95).

Have you tried MecGar 20s?

I have a few I have never had problems with. In fact, they are the primary mags for mine.

Yep –– they feed my P95 just fine but I get FTFs/FTEs in the Carbine. (Mec-Gars are generally great magazines, OEM for many companies/models.)

Maybe it's just an issue my PC-9, but it hasn't choked even once with factory mags.


chapperjoe  [Team Member]
5/6/2011 11:28:36 AM
horrible trigger built into the stock so no furniture options and no trigger options.

WAY too much spring (as in the spring/bolt blowback equation that others, e.g. the ump, have perfected)

it will go bang every time, but it's worth 275-300$ to me tops.

ETA: as others have said "solid" is a good word.
forever4  [Team Member]
5/8/2011 12:35:44 AM
Originally Posted By Tirador223:
I know this rifle has been gone from the Ruger lineup for a while, but I have to wonder why? I only examined it one time in a gun store and recall a rather M1 carbine-looking solid little rifle with a typical Ruger heavy duty feel. I never see them on the used market.

Why was this design unpopular and didn't sell? How long have they been discontinued?



The Marlin 9 Camp rifle went down the same path. It used S&W 59 series magazines as the Smith was a VERY popular pistol with police departments for many years. Buddy in LE said they let them buy and carry the Camp 9 carbines but they fell out of style and favor as folks made the jump to AR carbines. If you look at the stocks on the Camp rifles the first ones looked like M-1 carbine type stocks. Later, as they tried to increase civilian sales they upgraded the stock to a more sporting and modern look. Too little to save the rifle however. After all, the 9mm lacks the power for hunting deer or wild bore anyway and is too big for squirrel, rabbit and other small game..

I like the little PC 9 and my Camp 9 that I own. Great little rifle to take out to the range and burn up some ammo with. But, they both died with consumers some years back. Not enough market for them, period.
HardShell  [Moderator]
5/8/2011 11:02:09 AM

Originally Posted By forever4:

... If you look at the stocks on the Camp rifles the first ones looked like M-1 carbine type stocks. Later, as they tried to increase civilian sales they upgraded the stock to a more sporting and modern look...



forever4  [Team Member]
5/10/2011 12:03:49 PM
Originally Posted By HardShell:

Originally Posted By forever4:

... If you look at the stocks on the Camp rifles the first ones looked like M-1 carbine type stocks. Later, as they tried to increase civilian sales they upgraded the stock to a more sporting and modern look...

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y12/HardShell/RWB%20-%20Rifles/Marlin9mmCCs.jpg



I like both stocks. When I found a guy who had one like on the upper rifle for sale for $50 I jumped on it. Seems these rifles were well known for cracking their stocks due to people letting the buffer go bad and the recoil spring. The original wooden stocks are difficult if not nearly impossible to find. If you ever look at one of these rifles check the stock and internals for damage. When I got mine it had been a closet queen. First thing I did was take it down, replace the buffer with a better one and replace the recoil spring with a new heavier one from Wolff spring.

Great little rifle when set up right and cared for.
SkyntT800  [Member]
5/10/2011 11:20:41 PM
I wanted a PCC for a long while..... I looked at the Ruger PC series. Great little carbine but I don't own a Ruger pistol. I did a SBR 9mm AR build instead.
SNAFU-M1A  [Member]
5/29/2011 6:32:29 PM
Originally Posted By Moose:
There was a company that did Glock mag conversions for a few years, but then they stopped. Lone Wolf, IIRC.

So there are some out there. Never actually saw one myself, though.

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About 7-8 years ago a local shop had one of each that took Glock mags for $500ea. I saved up to buy the .40cal one so I could use my G22 duty mags & carry it my patrol car. I pulled in the lot to buy it & talked myself into buying a AR instead. They sold both soon after & I've never seen another 1. I never looked to see who did the conversion.
Gamma762  [Team Member]
5/29/2011 8:25:03 PM
Originally Posted By Moose:
Originally Posted By HardShell:
...it runs 100% with factory Ruger mags and I haven't found an extended aftermarket magazine yet that works well with it (even the ones that work just fine in my P95).

Have you tried MecGar 20s?

The vast majority of my PC9 shooting has been from MecGar 20s, and I've never had any mag related problems.

One thing I did do right away, was polish the feedramp with a dremel buffing wheel and some rouge. I had some feed problems prior to that.
Quake_Guy  [Member]
6/1/2011 12:03:27 AM
there was one guy who did conversions, but he either retired or died, I dont remember which. I looked into these quite a bit, you could with some sanding, mod the mag well for beretta mags. Then add a hole in the front of the beretta mags and use them in either the PC or a pistol. But then the storm came out which made it all a moot point.

Most people who are serious about pistol caliber carbines end up with some thing more mil spec and then SBR it.
Foxtrot243  [Member]
6/1/2011 12:50:33 AM
I like mine and run it with a P85 pistol,not fired lots and it wears a 1x6 mini scope and mine is one early one (less than 500 serial #) marked Police Carbine on rollmark,very accurate.I made up a 90grain XTP load that groups in a dime at 50 yards
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