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 How would you guys build a 300 blackout bolt gun?
funshot  [Team Member]
12/5/2011 6:58:59 PM

I want to make one out of a 700 action simply because of availability of parts and upgrades for that action. But how would you guys do it? I am trying to figure out the best route for this. I have seen the AAC Micro 7 but have been reading about their feed issues and still don’t know if there are as many aftermarket option available for that action. Any points or direction would be appreciated.

John
glock24  [Member]
12/5/2011 7:03:03 PM
Assuming you have a short-action, the 300 Blackout uses a 223 bolt face. Therefore you'll need a new bolt, new barrel, and a gunsmith. It's that easy. PT&G sells the bolts, or you might even be able to get a factory Remington. Take your pick on any match-grade barrel, as well as the gunsmith of your choice.

You may also need a 223 based magazine follower, or upgrade to a detachable magazine and run the Accuracy International 223 magazines.



funshot  [Team Member]
12/5/2011 7:09:57 PM
Makes sense, now the dumb question.. should I start with a 308 barrel or a 223? Is it easier to re-due the chamber or the barrel? I have never done this before- its completely new ground for me. Thank again
glock24  [Member]
12/5/2011 7:15:49 PM
Originally Posted By funshot:
Makes sense, now the dumb question.. should I start with a 308 barrel or a 223? Is it easier to re-due the chamber or the barrel? I have never done this before- its completely new ground for me. Thank again


You'd have to start with a 308 barrel, but it needs to be new, as in no existing chamber. The 300 Blackout case dimensions are so unique I can't think of an existing 308-based chamber that could be reused, unless you cut the chamber portion completely off the barrel and started over. Don't do that.



glock24  [Member]
12/5/2011 7:22:20 PM
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2865388&page=1

http://www.savagearms.com/firearms/model/10+PRECISION+CARBINE
funshot  [Team Member]
12/5/2011 7:30:09 PM
thanks, getting a better idea of what to do.
funshot  [Team Member]
12/5/2011 7:32:11 PM

Glock, you the man!
glock24  [Member]
12/5/2011 7:37:51 PM
Happy to help.

. . . and spend other people's money.
funshot  [Team Member]
12/5/2011 7:45:07 PM
Originally Posted By glock24:
Happy to help.

. . . and spend other people's money.


lol, this is getting expensive quick. should have never made that trust
BlahBlah  [Team Member]
12/5/2011 8:28:21 PM
I have a CZ 527 action out at McGowen Precision getting rebarreled for 300 BLK right now.

http://www.cz527.com/527-variants-and-wildcats/about-to-get-started-on-a-300blk-conversion!/msg77/
sanman28  [Team Member]
12/5/2011 8:40:33 PM
I can only speak for how I built mine. Remington 700 in .223, and an AAC 300BLK barrel. Direct swap.

35mm_Shooter  [Team Member]
12/5/2011 8:49:18 PM
What feed issues are you hearing with the micro7?
funshot  [Team Member]
12/5/2011 9:23:53 PM
Originally Posted By 35mm_Shooter:
What feed issues are you hearing with the micro7?


something to do with the magazine, there are a few other threads out there on it as well. I am sure it will be corrected and it will be just like any other blip is design and production.

http://www.300blktalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=137&t=78034



oh and those are some nice rifles guys. Been keeping tabs on your CZ build really sounds interesting and cant wait for a range report. I like the idea of that Remington though, factory, simple mass produced, parts everywhere so many choices....
PhreakMode  [Team Member]
12/5/2011 9:33:52 PM
I like shooting mine, fun little rifle, as acurate as anything else I own and shoot:





Mine was built from a trued SPS action, barrel was made local from a blank of 4150 button rifled with a 1-8" twist rate using a prat and whitney machine, modified MTU contour with deep flutes, cut to 16.5".

Have fun on your build.
Cixelsyd  [Life Member]
12/6/2011 2:26:06 PM
I had mine (well, it's a 300 Whisper) built off of a Rem 700 donor. Went with Pacnor, McMillan, Badger, and Leupold for the rest of it.




Barrel is 16.5" and it's still a pretty handy package with my Omega 30 on there. I think you'll have a TON of fun if you get one.

CHRIS
phlegm  [Team Member]
12/6/2011 10:25:45 PM
A customer of mine talked to JD Jones, who reported that the 300 Whisper functioned best out of a CZ. That being said, he's still interested in the Remington/AAC gun.

I am curious about what kind of accuracy is coming from those skinny barrels.
ziarifleman  [Team Member]
12/6/2011 10:30:51 PM
If you're using a 700 or similar, you want to start with one in .223 or something like that, if you're not using a DBM.

The feed rails in a .308 action will not work real well with the Blackout.
alemonkey  [Team Member]
12/6/2011 10:49:42 PM
I would think a .223 Savage or Stevens would make a great donor gun. You could do it yourself, just buy the barrel, barrel nut wrench & headspace gauge, and swap the .300 barrel onto in in your garage.

Hmm.....
WesJanson  [Member]
12/6/2011 11:23:40 PM
So stupid question...but what's the main point of a .300 Blackout instead of using a .308 Win with subsonic loads?
sanman28  [Team Member]
12/7/2011 4:58:22 PM
Originally Posted By WesJanson:
So stupid question...but what's the main point of a .300 Blackout instead of using a .308 Win with subsonic loads?


Fits into an AR15 sized receiver and mag.
USMARINE1108  [Team Member]
12/7/2011 5:22:22 PM
Originally Posted By alemonkey:
I would think a .223 Savage or Stevens would make a great donor gun. You could do it yourself, just buy the barrel, barrel nut wrench & headspace gauge, and swap the .300 barrel onto in in your garage.

Hmm.....


PhreakMode  [Team Member]
12/7/2011 7:50:19 PM
standard .223 extractor does not work well with the 300AAC case.
alemonkey  [Team Member]
12/7/2011 8:05:21 PM
Originally Posted By PhreakMode:
standard .223 extractor does not work well with the 300AAC case.


I've never heard that before - it doesn't seem likely, given the parent case is the same, so the rim size is identical. I'm not meaning to be rude, just wondering if there are documented cases of that?

BlahBlah  [Team Member]
12/7/2011 8:14:36 PM
The extraction issues with the 300 BLK in .223 donor actions is due to the (much) shorter case size of the 300 BLK. But it's an ejector thing, not an extractor thing, and it mostly only happens when working the bolt slowly. It's a documented issue all over the place, and it has been an issue for quite some time (300/221 and 300 Whisper did it too).

I know a few companies are coming out with mushroom-headed ejectors that seem to fix the problem. Sharp Shooter Supply has one for Savage actions at least. I'm sure there is something out there for the Remington actions as well.

That's why I built my Blackout on a CZ 527 (Micro) action. It doesn't suffer from the same issue.
chrismartin  [Member]
12/7/2011 8:17:57 PM
Originally Posted By alemonkey:
Originally Posted By PhreakMode:
standard .223 extractor does not work well with the 300AAC case.


I've never heard that before - it doesn't seem likely, given the parent case is the same, so the rim size is identical. I'm not meaning to be rude, just wondering if there are documented cases of that?



It's not the rim that is the problem, it is the length of the case. The extractor and ejector design force the case over to the ejection side of the receiver. With a case as short as the 300BLK, the extractor tends to drop the case early.

You can modify the ejector a bit to help put more force on the back of the case. You adjust the notch on the ejector until the ejector is flush or almost flush with the end of the bolt.

A better extractor would help, or an ejector that was not inside the bolt (fixed position ejector)
alemonkey  [Team Member]
12/7/2011 8:43:49 PM
I see....I haven't read up much on the .300 in bolt guns, just in the AR. I assume because the AR action cycles much quicker than a bolt action it's not much of a problem there?
funshot  [Team Member]
12/7/2011 10:07:59 PM
thanks again guys, doing some reading up on what everyone has been suggesting. So many options
WesJanson  [Member]
12/7/2011 10:43:31 PM
Originally Posted By sanman28:
Originally Posted By WesJanson:
So stupid question...but what's the main point of a .300 Blackout instead of using a .308 Win with subsonic loads?


Fits into an AR15 sized receiver and mag.


Right, I know. But why would someone want a bolt gun chambered in a caliber specially-designed to work in an entirely different platform? Aside from the non-existent Mossberg MVP, there aren't any bolt actions on the market that can use an AR magazine, so it's definitely not for magazine capacity. For what then?

I am aware that people have an inexplicable urge to buy guns in useless calibers, but I still cannot understand why this is so. Particularly when it drives up the ammo cost dramatically, is known for having functioning issues, and provides zero theoretical benefit of any kind. Am I missing something, or is this just a lemmings thing - any excuse for a new rifle?
PhreakMode  [Team Member]
12/7/2011 10:44:11 PM
To be honest, I would just buy the AAC Remington factory rifle and see how you like it before dropping a bunch of money in to a custom build. The rifle I built was not even remotely cheep, pretty sad considering it's a novelty firearm for me.
ziarifleman  [Team Member]
12/7/2011 10:46:28 PM
Originally Posted By WesJanson:
Originally Posted By sanman28:
Originally Posted By WesJanson:
So stupid question...but what's the main point of a .300 Blackout instead of using a .308 Win with subsonic loads?


Fits into an AR15 sized receiver and mag.


Right, I know. But why would someone want a bolt gun chambered in a caliber specially-designed to work in an entirely different platform? Aside from the non-existent Mossberg MVP, there aren't any bolt actions on the market that can use an AR magazine, so it's definitely not for magazine capacity. For what then?

I am aware that people have an inexplicable urge to buy guns in useless calibers, but I still cannot understand why this is so. Particularly when it drives up the ammo cost dramatically, is known for having functioning issues, and provides zero theoretical benefit of any kind. Am I missing something, or is this just a lemmings thing - any excuse for a new rifle?


There is bottom metal out there for 700s that takes AR mags, but I see what you're saying.

There is not much of a place for the Blackout outside an AR.
35mm_Shooter  [Team Member]
12/7/2011 10:57:43 PM
Originally Posted By WesJanson:
Originally Posted By sanman28:
Originally Posted By WesJanson:
So stupid question...but what's the main point of a .300 Blackout instead of using a .308 Win with subsonic loads?


Fits into an AR15 sized receiver and mag.


Right, I know. But why would someone want a bolt gun chambered in a caliber specially-designed to work in an entirely different platform? Aside from the non-existent Mossberg MVP, there aren't any bolt actions on the market that can use an AR magazine, so it's definitely not for magazine capacity. For what then?

I am aware that people have an inexplicable urge to buy guns in useless calibers, but I still cannot understand why this is so. Particularly when it drives up the ammo cost dramatically, is known for having functioning issues, and provides zero theoretical benefit of any kind. Am I missing something, or is this just a lemmings thing - any excuse for a new rifle?




The round was specifically designed to be shot suppressed. Yeah, why would anybody want it in a bolt gun?
ziarifleman  [Team Member]
12/7/2011 11:01:35 PM
Originally Posted By 35mm_Shooter:
Originally Posted By WesJanson:
Originally Posted By sanman28:
Originally Posted By WesJanson:
So stupid question...but what's the main point of a .300 Blackout instead of using a .308 Win with subsonic loads?


Fits into an AR15 sized receiver and mag.


Right, I know. But why would someone want a bolt gun chambered in a caliber specially-designed to work in an entirely different platform? Aside from the non-existent Mossberg MVP, there aren't any bolt actions on the market that can use an AR magazine, so it's definitely not for magazine capacity. For what then?

I am aware that people have an inexplicable urge to buy guns in useless calibers, but I still cannot understand why this is so. Particularly when it drives up the ammo cost dramatically, is known for having functioning issues, and provides zero theoretical benefit of any kind. Am I missing something, or is this just a lemmings thing - any excuse for a new rifle?




The round was specifically designed to be shot suppressed. Yeah, why would anybody want it in a bolt gun?


"Shot suppressed" out of an AR magazine.
TEAMSHRALP  [Member]
12/7/2011 11:22:47 PM
.223rem, Stevens 200 (Savage 10) $300
.300blk, barrel ±$170-200
Savage barrel wrench $40
Headspace gauge $30

Tottal: ±$540-570

you will probably want a trigger upgrade for another $100 or so. Add a suppressor and have fun...
Cixelsyd  [Life Member]
12/8/2011 12:43:47 AM

Originally Posted By 35mm_Shooter:

The round was specifically designed to be shot suppressed. Yeah, why would anybody want it in a bolt gun?
Suppressed subsonic rounds seem much more quiet out of a bolt gun than an AR. That's why I sold my Noveske Whisper barrel after I got my 700 back from Predator Customs. Plus I don't have an 8-twist 308 around here either. I'm not comfortable downloading 308 to 1050fps and shooting it in a non-optimal 1-10 twist barrel, especially with my suppressor screwed on their. But I guess I'm just a lemming...

CHRIS

35mm_Shooter  [Team Member]
12/8/2011 12:50:49 AM
Originally Posted By Cixelsyd:

Originally Posted By 35mm_Shooter:

The round was specifically designed to be shot suppressed. Yeah, why would anybody want it in a bolt gun?
Suppressed subsonic rounds seem much more quiet out of a bolt gun than an AR. That's why I sold my Noveske Whisper barrel after I got my 700 back from Predator Customs. Plus I don't have an 8-twist 308 around here either. I'm not comfortable downloading 308 to 1050fps and shooting it in a non-optimal 1-10 twist barrel, especially with my suppressor screwed on their. But I guess I'm just a lemming...

CHRIS



Exactly, plus you can buy subsonic BLK ammo all day for under a buck a round. Can't say the same for 308.

I guess it's also wrong to shoot 308 out of my LAR-8, since 308 was originally designed for bolt guns
WesJanson  [Member]
12/8/2011 2:19:31 AM
Originally Posted By 35mm_Shooter:
Originally Posted By Cixelsyd:

Originally Posted By 35mm_Shooter:

The round was specifically designed to be shot suppressed. Yeah, why would anybody want it in a bolt gun?
Suppressed subsonic rounds seem much more quiet out of a bolt gun than an AR. That's why I sold my Noveske Whisper barrel after I got my 700 back from Predator Customs. Plus I don't have an 8-twist 308 around here either. I'm not comfortable downloading 308 to 1050fps and shooting it in a non-optimal 1-10 twist barrel, especially with my suppressor screwed on their. But I guess I'm just a lemming...

CHRIS



Exactly, plus you can buy subsonic BLK ammo all day for under a buck a round. Can't say the same for 308.

I guess it's also wrong to shoot 308 out of my LAR-8, since 308 was originally designed for bolt guns


So let's address these points in order.

1: .300 Blackout was intended to be shot suppressed. True, but irrelevant. It was made for shooting suppressed from an AR...not a bolt-action.

2: Suppressed rounds are quieter from a bolt-gun than a semi-auto. Quite possibly true, but this is an argument in favor of a suppressed .308 just as much as it is the Blackout.

3: The argument that "I don't have a 1-in-8 .308, so thus I should buy a custom Blackout rifle" does not compute. Either way you need to buy a new gun at the least, but you could also just have a new barrel put onto your 700.

4: If your only goal is cheaper factory blaster ammo, than I suppose the Blackout makes sense. On the other hand, the majority of people on forums such as this are already handloading, and there's nothing about Blackout that's inherently cheaper than .308 Win for handloading purposes. I'd wager that most of the shooters lusting after a .300 BLK boltgun probably aren't concerned about saving a few bucks on a box of ammo, they just want it because it's cool and new. Like every single newly-marketed cartridge that comes out each year, only to fade away into obscurity and untenably high prices. Right now there's barely half a dozen commercial loads available for the .300 Blackout, compared to nearly two hundred offered for the .308 Winchester/7.62 NATO. Why buy something that may not be available a decade down the road?

5. The .308 LAR comparison is about as relevant as discussing the twist rate of a Colt 1911 as it relates to this discussion. The point I'm arguing is that its foolish to pay more in negative performance characteristics to use something in an inappropriate platform, when a better option already exists...maybe there's something else that I'm missing, but if so I've yet to hear what that might be.


At the end of the day, there's two choices:

A: Buy a custom rifle in .300 Blackout (or the Remington), deal with the ejection issues, and have a rifle chambered in a niche cartridge thats only value is in shooting suppressed at close distances.
B: Buy a .308 Win factory or custom rifle in damn near any configuration conceivable with a fast twist, load your own ammo as desired, and shoot full-power loads out to long range whenever you feel like it. Reliability and functioning are a given, components are endlessly available, surplus ammo can be acquired for cheap, and enjoy the various benefits of a far more versatile cartridge.

Aside from the non-reloader who wants to blast large volumes of cheap ammo through an expensive suppressed custom rifle...who's going to pick option A and why?
BlahBlah  [Team Member]
12/8/2011 7:18:26 AM
That logic is flawed. The .223 Remington was designed specifically to fit the action/magazine length of the M16. So why is there a need for a bolt-action rifle chambered in that caliber? Apparently there is a need for it, because I doubt you could find a modern rifle manufacturer who doesn't produce at least one bolt-action chambered in .223 Remington.

The 300 BLK rounds can be made out of cheap, widely available .223 cases, and any regular .308 bullet. Even if the ammo manufacturers quit producing ammo today, you could reload your own with inexpensive, off-the-shelf components forever.

Shooting suppressed out of a bolt-gun is quieter (no action noise) than a semi-auto platform. Why bother downloading .308 to subsonic (lots of wasted case capacity) and shooting it out of a non-optimal, 1:10" or 1:11" twist barrel when you can shoot off-the-shelf 300 BLK ammo through a 1:8" twist barrel? If you planned to shoot nothing but subsonic .308, I suppose you could get a 1:8" barrel chambered for it. But if you're going to the expense of rebarreling .308 to shoot subsonic, suppressed, you're not saving yourself anything over building a 300 BLK (simple rebarrel of a .223 rifle).

The full-power loads are in the same class as the good old 30-30 and 7.62x39. So the 300 BLK makes a great hunting round in the under 300 yard range. A lot of states don't allow hunting with semi-auto rifles, so a bolt-action makes sense.
silentbushmaster  [Member]
12/8/2011 9:00:25 AM
Integrated Version
Cixelsyd  [Life Member]
12/8/2011 9:22:30 AM
That's a nice looking rifle there!

Not that it means anything, but I've had zero extraction issues with my rifle. It did start as a .223 donor though, as ziarifleman suggested.

CHRIS