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Automatic SBR for Police Department/LE Use?
12/2/2011 7:09:06 PM
Hey gang,
A LEO friend of mine is looking to purchase an AR for duty use. As an individual officer, I know that he'll be subject to normal Class 3 regulations like anyone else. However, if he's looking to get an SBR, or have the option to go FA, can the PD purchase the carbine instead? What are the legalities on its use, and what paperwork needs to be done from the PD's perspective? I'm just looking for some general guidance here.
Thanks for any insight any of you can provide.
A LEO friend of mine is looking to purchase an AR for duty use. As an individual officer, I know that he'll be subject to normal Class 3 regulations like anyone else. However, if he's looking to get an SBR, or have the option to go FA, can the PD purchase the carbine instead? What are the legalities on its use, and what paperwork needs to be done from the PD's perspective? I'm just looking for some general guidance here.
Thanks for any insight any of you can provide.
12/2/2011 7:18:15 PM
FA would have to be a PD purchase, on letterhead/purchase order, and he cannot take it when the quits or retires. Though he can still pony up the money for the PD.
12/2/2011 10:53:27 PM
buy a post sample drop in auto sear cost $125 no tax
he can sbr his gun as long as the sear is in his rifle
when he quits take the sear out and let the dept have it back
if he is not allowed to have full auto just leave the ar15 semi auto parts in with the sear
his rifle
there sear
no tax
he can sbr his gun as long as the sear is in his rifle
when he quits take the sear out and let the dept have it back
if he is not allowed to have full auto just leave the ar15 semi auto parts in with the sear
his rifle
there sear
no tax
12/3/2011 8:35:01 AM
his rifle
there sear
no tax
If it is his rifle he would have to pay a tax on the SBR. The only way to avoid that is to have the dept buy it too and just transfer it to him on a Form 5 when he leaves the dept.
12/3/2011 1:59:07 PM
Originally Posted By bigcbass:
his rifle
there sear
no tax
If it is his rifle he would have to pay a tax on the SBR. The only way to avoid that is to have the dept buy it too and just transfer it to him on a Form 5 when he leaves the dept.
his rifle
there sear
no tax
If it is his rifle he would have to pay a tax on the SBR. The only way to avoid that is to have the dept buy it too and just transfer it to him on a Form 5 when he leaves the dept.
Not if it's only in SBR configuration while it has the DIAS in the gun.
12/3/2011 9:59:06 PM
Originally Posted By andrasik:
Not if it's only in SBR configuration while it has the DIAS in the gun.
Originally Posted By bigcbass:
his rifle
there sear
no tax
If it is his rifle he would have to pay a tax on the SBR. The only way to avoid that is to have the dept buy it too and just transfer it to him on a Form 5 when he leaves the dept.
his rifle
there sear
no tax
If it is his rifle he would have to pay a tax on the SBR. The only way to avoid that is to have the dept buy it too and just transfer it to him on a Form 5 when he leaves the dept.
Not if it's only in SBR configuration while it has the DIAS in the gun.
bingo
12/3/2011 10:34:17 PM
I guess that is right...but then it wouldn't be an SBR, just a machine gun. And then he probably couldn't keep the upper either unless he had another SBR or pistol.
1/15/2012 6:24:23 PM
My brother is wanting to do something similar in that he is leaving one department for another and wants to purchase a suppressor from the department he is leaving. Can he form 4 it and transfer from the government to the individual? Ive tried to look around for info for him as he has disconnected his internet in the move but I cant find any info on this particular process???
1/15/2012 6:55:40 PM
Originally Posted By climbr1:
My brother is wanting to do something similar in that he is leaving one department for another and wants to purchase a suppressor from the department he is leaving. Can he form 4 it and transfer from the government to the individual? Ive tried to look around for info for him as he has disconnected his internet in the move but I cant find any info on this particular process???
My brother is wanting to do something similar in that he is leaving one department for another and wants to purchase a suppressor from the department he is leaving. Can he form 4 it and transfer from the government to the individual? Ive tried to look around for info for him as he has disconnected his internet in the move but I cant find any info on this particular process???
It's actually be a Form 5 and 100% tax-free. There's no tax when NFA weapons transfer to OR from a .gov agency.
If the agency is cool with it, he can certainly buy a can from them on a Form 5 from the department to him directly.
FYI, he should NOT make a habit of this. Doing it for one or two things upon leaving a department is fine. Doing it multiple times is tax evasion and ATF has successfully made felons out of people for that.
Mike
1/15/2012 8:38:14 PM
That's cool I guess, I can't find in the NFA handbook anything substantial on form 5's. It seems cut and dried with a form 4 though. I don't want to get my dept in hot water or even have the perception of trying to work round the system. I should have prefaced that I want to do the same thing with a different dept but we both shoot together and our dept are equally cool with helping us.
1/15/2012 11:38:00 PM
That is the purpose of the Form 5, so PD's don't have the pay the tax. It won't get anyone in trouble.
1/16/2012 12:55:52 AM
on behalf of the dept, have him call the famous RDIAS ad in shotgun news. We all want to find out if agents start dropping out of helicopters or teleport into his office...
1/16/2012 4:00:17 PM
Ya no kidding, haven't seen much about that ad in a long time.
2/5/2012 11:25:42 PM
The ad in Shotgun news isn't an ATF front. The guy who posts that ad was here at a gun show last year selling them for $100. In the 3 minutes that I was standing at his table reading his flyer on his "safety sear" two people came up, threw $100 cash on the table and walked away with one. No cops, no helicopters.
2/13/2012 4:08:29 PM
Originally Posted By chemcmndr:
The ad in Shotgun news isn't an ATF front. The guy who posts that ad was here at a gun show last year selling them for $100. In the 3 minutes that I was standing at his table reading his flyer on his "safety sear" two people came up, threw $100 cash on the table and walked away with one. No cops, no helicopters.
The ad in Shotgun news isn't an ATF front. The guy who posts that ad was here at a gun show last year selling them for $100. In the 3 minutes that I was standing at his table reading his flyer on his "safety sear" two people came up, threw $100 cash on the table and walked away with one. No cops, no helicopters.
FYI
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1285921_George_Dodson__guy_selling_DIAS_from_shotgun_news__indicted__p5_6_updates.html
2/13/2012 6:31:10 PM
Hm... Interesting. I still have a copy of that flyer somewhere and I remember arguing with him on how he could sell them since I knew they were a DIAS and there's no other purpose for them. He was quick to try and point out that if they're pre '81 they're legal so long as you didn't have the other components to make a machine gun and the AR to go with it... I remember looking at the few that he had on the table and they looked like they came right off of a milling machine instead of being 20 years old...
2/14/2012 11:17:06 PM
Originally Posted By chemcmndr:
The ad in Shotgun news isn't an ATF front. The guy who posts that ad was here at a gun show last year selling them for $100. In the 3 minutes that I was standing at his table reading his flyer on his "safety sear" two people came up, threw $100 cash on the table and walked away with one. No cops, no helicopters.
The ad in Shotgun news isn't an ATF front. The guy who posts that ad was here at a gun show last year selling them for $100. In the 3 minutes that I was standing at his table reading his flyer on his "safety sear" two people came up, threw $100 cash on the table and walked away with one. No cops, no helicopters.
And he was also indicted in the past couple of weeks...
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1285921_George_Dodson__guy_selling_DIAS_from_shotgun_news__indicted__p5_6_updates.html&page=1
2/25/2012 6:37:32 PM
Originally Posted By okguy91:
bingo
Originally Posted By andrasik:
Not if it's only in SBR configuration while it has the DIAS in the gun.
Originally Posted By bigcbass:
his rifle
there sear
no tax
If it is his rifle he would have to pay a tax on the SBR. The only way to avoid that is to have the dept buy it too and just transfer it to him on a Form 5 when he leaves the dept.
his rifle
there sear
no tax
If it is his rifle he would have to pay a tax on the SBR. The only way to avoid that is to have the dept buy it too and just transfer it to him on a Form 5 when he leaves the dept.
Not if it's only in SBR configuration while it has the DIAS in the gun.
bingo
Not bingo. When he retires and wants to keep the gun and returns the sear to the department, it will now be an unregistered SBR for him to own. There is no way to avoid the taxes. Unless the department registers it as an SBR, and registers the DIAS also. Then, when he retires, and gets the SBR, it could just be transferd to him on a Form 5 for free right?
2/25/2012 7:21:44 PM
Originally Posted By collegeboy:
Not bingo. When he retires and wants to keep the gun and returns the sear to the department, it will now be an unregistered SBR for him to own. There is no way to avoid the taxes. Unless the department registers it as an SBR, and registers the DIAS also. Then, when he retires, and gets the SBR, it could just be transferd to him on a Form 5 for free right?
Originally Posted By okguy91:
bingo
Originally Posted By andrasik:
Not if it's only in SBR configuration while it has the DIAS in the gun.
Originally Posted By bigcbass:
his rifle
there sear
no tax
If it is his rifle he would have to pay a tax on the SBR. The only way to avoid that is to have the dept buy it too and just transfer it to him on a Form 5 when he leaves the dept.
his rifle
there sear
no tax
If it is his rifle he would have to pay a tax on the SBR. The only way to avoid that is to have the dept buy it too and just transfer it to him on a Form 5 when he leaves the dept.
Not if it's only in SBR configuration while it has the DIAS in the gun.
bingo
Not bingo. When he retires and wants to keep the gun and returns the sear to the department, it will now be an unregistered SBR for him to own. There is no way to avoid the taxes. Unless the department registers it as an SBR, and registers the DIAS also. Then, when he retires, and gets the SBR, it could just be transferd to him on a Form 5 for free right?
No, it is indeed bingo.
If he returns to a Title I configuration prior to removing the RDIAS (I know it is still Title II at that point), then he is set. Remove the RDIAS and bam, the rifle is Title I.
2/25/2012 10:31:58 PM
^^This is correct in my understanding. If he were to push out the rear pin, remove the RDIAS, and then walk out with the <16" upper and the lower, he would have an unregistered SPR. However, he is indeed fine as long as the RDIAS is in place. If he decides to retire and wants to keep the sub 16" upper, he needs to Form 1 the lower 8 months before he retires.
