Archived Posts » 59,726,163
Lost Full Auto in transfer????
12/14/2011 7:14:55 PM
So, I purchased a full auto from a third party and had it transferred to a local shop. Somehow, the item came up missing at the shop and is under investigation by the local PD, FBI, and ATF. I have the tracking info to show the item made it, the approved form 4 from my third party to the dealer, and check stubs to prove I paid for the item.
My question is........Is there anything I should be doing on my end? I'm trying to get the PD POC and a police report, but wasn't sure if I should be contacting the ATF since the item hasn't officially transferred to me. I guess I'm just surprised because I haven't heard from anyone except the local gun shop.
Thanks in advance for any help.
My question is........Is there anything I should be doing on my end? I'm trying to get the PD POC and a police report, but wasn't sure if I should be contacting the ATF since the item hasn't officially transferred to me. I guess I'm just surprised because I haven't heard from anyone except the local gun shop.
Thanks in advance for any help.
12/14/2011 7:16:21 PM
I am no help but what kind of full auto?
12/14/2011 7:17:31 PM
Norrell trigger pack.
Originally Posted By InfiniteGrim:
I am no help but what kind of full auto?
I am no help but what kind of full auto?
12/14/2011 8:46:47 PM
Was it shipped registered postal mail?
12/14/2011 9:31:15 PM
It still belongs to you, it just hasn't been transferred into your possession yet. Notify the police that you were the purchaser so that the police report will reflect that if you need to recover the purchasing cost from the shop.
They lost your property while it was in their care and they have insurance for just such an occasion, or at least should.
They lost your property while it was in their care and they have insurance for just such an occasion, or at least should.
12/14/2011 10:54:04 PM
What shop in AZ?
12/15/2011 7:24:46 AM
Thanks Bloodsport and appreciate the advice. As soon as I get the local PD info, I'll definately be calling. The owner of the shop and I are really hoping that the item turns up during the investigation.
AZAtty..........I really don't want to say. I've done almost a dozen ATF transactions in the past and have nine more in process with them.........this was the only incident.
AZAtty..........I really don't want to say. I've done almost a dozen ATF transactions in the past and have nine more in process with them.........this was the only incident.
12/15/2011 10:40:24 AM
Originally Posted By eolsen:
Thanks Bloodsport and appreciate the advice. As soon as I get the local PD info, I'll definately be calling. The owner of the shop and I are really hoping that the item turns up during the investigation.
AZAtty..........I really don't want to say. I've done almost a dozen ATF transactions in the past and have nine more in process with them.........this was the only incident.
Thanks Bloodsport and appreciate the advice. As soon as I get the local PD info, I'll definately be calling. The owner of the shop and I are really hoping that the item turns up during the investigation.
AZAtty..........I really don't want to say. I've done almost a dozen ATF transactions in the past and have nine more in process with them.........this was the only incident.
Did the FFL sign for the delivery and/ or log it into his books? If the ATF is involved contact the FFL and ask for the case # and the special agent contact info working the case.
12/15/2011 1:08:18 PM
Losing a $9,000 Norrell trigger pack is a pretty big incident.
12/15/2011 2:33:55 PM
Did someone sign for it at delivery? How was it shipped?
12/15/2011 4:21:06 PM
Sorry for the delay to answer your guys questions..........It was shipped via USPS registered mail with no signature required. The item was logged in via the computer, but not in their books. I just found out that I should be getting the police report and PD/ATF POC's information on Monday. I just got back from Afghanistan and am just trying to get caught up on all this. The good news is that they physical located the rest of my items.........thought I was out a DLO pack for awhile as well.
Originally Posted By telc:
Did someone sign for it at delivery? How was it shipped?
Did someone sign for it at delivery? How was it shipped?
12/15/2011 4:30:30 PM
True, it was a pricey little pack.......especially for 22lr.I paid a couple thousand less than what you mentioned.......I just hope the insurance gives me replacement value as I probably won't be able to find another good deal again.
Originally Posted By AZAtty480:
Losing a $9,000 Norrell trigger pack is a pretty big incident.
Losing a $9,000 Norrell trigger pack is a pretty big incident.
12/15/2011 4:37:23 PM
Originally Posted By eolsen:
Sorry for the delay to answer your guys questions..........It was shipped via USPS registered mail with no signature required. The item was logged in via the computer, but not in their books. I just found out that I should be getting the police report and PD/ATF POC's information on Monday. I just got back from Afghanistan and am just trying to get caught up on all this. The good news is that they physical located the rest of my items.........thought I was out a DLO pack for awhile as well.
Sorry for the delay to answer your guys questions..........It was shipped via USPS registered mail with no signature required. The item was logged in via the computer, but not in their books. I just found out that I should be getting the police report and PD/ATF POC's information on Monday. I just got back from Afghanistan and am just trying to get caught up on all this. The good news is that they physical located the rest of my items.........thought I was out a DLO pack for awhile as well.
Originally Posted By telc:
Did someone sign for it at delivery? How was it shipped?
Did someone sign for it at delivery? How was it shipped?
Registered Mail always requires a signature, seems like they don't want to tell you who signed for it.
http://faq.usps.com/eCustomer/iq/usps/request.do?create=kb:USPSFAQ&view%28%29=c[c_usps04233]&varset%28source%29=sourceType:embedded
- What are the characteristics of Registered Mail?
- The most secure United States Postal Service® mail (protected by safes, cages, sealed containers, locks and keys).
- Requires a signature upon delivery.
- Delivery information will provide delivery status or attempted delivery status when the item reaches its destination, it will not provide tracking of the item as it is enroute to its destination.
- Registered Mail can be sent to military locations. However, delivery information is not available for items destined to an APO / FPO.
- A system of receipts is provided to monitor movement of mail from the point of acceptance to delivery. Access to these receipts is not readily accessible and can only be done by initiating a claim form (not a phone service).
- ID numbers typically begin with two letters ("R" followed by another letter) followed by nine numbers and the letters "US", for example: RA 000 000 000 US, the ID number can be located in the upper left-hand corner of the receipt.
12/16/2011 12:02:09 PM
Sounds like you may have a lawsuit against your FFL. Just hope he has insurance.
12/16/2011 12:36:18 PM
Originally Posted By bigcbass:
Sounds like you may have a lawsuit against your FFL. Just hope he has insurance.
Sounds like you may have a lawsuit against your FFL. Just hope he has insurance.
That's gonna hurt.
12/16/2011 8:33:58 PM
Thanks. That was what I was thinking if things don't work out.
Originally Posted By bigcbass:
Sounds like you may have a lawsuit against your FFL. Just hope he has insurance.
Sounds like you may have a lawsuit against your FFL. Just hope he has insurance.
12/19/2011 9:04:48 AM
wow, tag for updated
12/20/2011 10:37:15 AM
In for updates.
I can only wish you luck. Damn.
I can only wish you luck. Damn.
12/20/2011 4:55:08 PM
Thanks. Still getting the run around and being ignored at US Autoweapons. The owner actually walked by me three times yesterday and didn't say one word. All I can get from them is the detectives name.........no ATF agent info or anything else. I'm really surprised since I've spent thousands there and have had 6 FA's transfer through there. I guess I'm just really surprised at the lack of customer support. The messed up part with all of this is that the 10/22 trigger pack is worthless to whoever stole it since I have the modified bolt for it to be operational.
BTW - I did call the detective this morning and am waiting a return call.
BTW - I did call the detective this morning and am waiting a return call.
Originally Posted By andrasik:
In for updates.
I can only wish you luck. Damn.
In for updates.
I can only wish you luck. Damn.
12/20/2011 10:10:24 PM
Originally Posted By eolsen:
Thanks. Still getting the run around and being ignored at US Autoweapons. The owner actually walked by me three times yesterday and didn't say one word. All I can get from them is the detectives name.........no ATF agent info or anything else. I'm really surprised since I've spent thousands there and have had 6 FA's transfer through there. I guess I'm just really surprised at the lack of customer support. The messed up part with all of this is that the 10/22 trigger pack is worthless to whoever stole it since I have the modified bolt for it to be operational.
BTW - I did call the detective this morning and am waiting a return call.
Thanks. Still getting the run around and being ignored at US Autoweapons. The owner actually walked by me three times yesterday and didn't say one word. All I can get from them is the detectives name.........no ATF agent info or anything else. I'm really surprised since I've spent thousands there and have had 6 FA's transfer through there. I guess I'm just really surprised at the lack of customer support. The messed up part with all of this is that the 10/22 trigger pack is worthless to whoever stole it since I have the modified bolt for it to be operational.
BTW - I did call the detective this morning and am waiting a return call.
Originally Posted By andrasik:
In for updates.
I can only wish you luck. Damn.
In for updates.
I can only wish you luck. Damn.
Can't you call the local ATF yourself and get the info and open your own case with them?
12/20/2011 11:41:54 PM
You previously said it was logged in via the "computer" but not in their books. Is the computer the USPS "computer" of the FFL's?
FYI
If the FFL had possession he is required to report.
Report Firearms Theft / Loss
FYI
If the FFL had possession he is required to report.
Report Firearms Theft / Loss
Any Federal Firearms Licensee who has knowledge of the theft or loss of any firearms from their inventory must report such theft or loss within 48 hours of discovery to ATF and to the local law enforcement agency. (Regulations at 27 CFR § 478.39a and implementing section 923(g)(6) require that the report of theft or loss be made by telephone and in writing to ATF).
Upon discovery of any theft or loss of any of your firearms:
First, call your local law enforcement agency to report the theft or loss. Contacting the local law enforcement authorities is essential to the quick recovery of firearms taken in a crime. If the firearms are unaccounted for during inventory, you should make it clear to the authorities that there is no evidence of a crime and that the disposition of these firearms is unknown and may stem from a record keeping error.
Second, call the ATF’s Stolen Firearms Program Manager toll free at 1-888-930-9275. They can also assist in the preparation of the Theft / Loss Report for submission. ATF will work with the local law enforcement authorities investigating the theft.
Third, complete the report form (ATF Form 3310.11) and attach any continuation sheets necessary (ATF Form 3310.11A) and mail it to ATF’s National Tracing Center. Be sure to submit the original form(s) to ATF and retain copies for your records.
Upon discovery of any theft or loss of any of your firearms:
First, call your local law enforcement agency to report the theft or loss. Contacting the local law enforcement authorities is essential to the quick recovery of firearms taken in a crime. If the firearms are unaccounted for during inventory, you should make it clear to the authorities that there is no evidence of a crime and that the disposition of these firearms is unknown and may stem from a record keeping error.
Second, call the ATF’s Stolen Firearms Program Manager toll free at 1-888-930-9275. They can also assist in the preparation of the Theft / Loss Report for submission. ATF will work with the local law enforcement authorities investigating the theft.
Third, complete the report form (ATF Form 3310.11) and attach any continuation sheets necessary (ATF Form 3310.11A) and mail it to ATF’s National Tracing Center. Be sure to submit the original form(s) to ATF and retain copies for your records.
12/21/2011 8:37:41 AM
Originally Posted By Everrest:
You previously said it was logged in via the "computer" but not in their books. Is the computer the USPS "computer" of the FFL's?
FYI
If the FFL had possession he is required to report.
Report Firearms Theft / Loss
You previously said it was logged in via the "computer" but not in their books. Is the computer the USPS "computer" of the FFL's?
FYI
If the FFL had possession he is required to report.
Report Firearms Theft / Loss
Any Federal Firearms Licensee who has knowledge of the theft or loss of any firearms from their inventory must report such theft or loss within 48 hours of discovery to ATF and to the local law enforcement agency. (Regulations at 27 CFR § 478.39a and implementing section 923(g)(6) require that the report of theft or loss be made by telephone and in writing to ATF).
Upon discovery of any theft or loss of any of your firearms:
First, call your local law enforcement agency to report the theft or loss. Contacting the local law enforcement authorities is essential to the quick recovery of firearms taken in a crime. If the firearms are unaccounted for during inventory, you should make it clear to the authorities that there is no evidence of a crime and that the disposition of these firearms is unknown and may stem from a record keeping error.
Second, call the ATF’s Stolen Firearms Program Manager toll free at 1-888-930-9275. They can also assist in the preparation of the Theft / Loss Report for submission. ATF will work with the local law enforcement authorities investigating the theft.
Third, complete the report form (ATF Form 3310.11) and attach any continuation sheets necessary (ATF Form 3310.11A) and mail it to ATF’s National Tracing Center. Be sure to submit the original form(s) to ATF and retain copies for your records.
Upon discovery of any theft or loss of any of your firearms:
First, call your local law enforcement agency to report the theft or loss. Contacting the local law enforcement authorities is essential to the quick recovery of firearms taken in a crime. If the firearms are unaccounted for during inventory, you should make it clear to the authorities that there is no evidence of a crime and that the disposition of these firearms is unknown and may stem from a record keeping error.
Second, call the ATF’s Stolen Firearms Program Manager toll free at 1-888-930-9275. They can also assist in the preparation of the Theft / Loss Report for submission. ATF will work with the local law enforcement authorities investigating the theft.
Third, complete the report form (ATF Form 3310.11) and attach any continuation sheets necessary (ATF Form 3310.11A) and mail it to ATF’s National Tracing Center. Be sure to submit the original form(s) to ATF and retain copies for your records.
If you read the OP he said the FBI and ATF are investigating. So, it's likely the report was already filed.
12/21/2011 10:02:49 AM
Originally Posted By Bubbles:
{snip}
If you read the OP he said the FBI and ATF are investigating. So, it's likely the report was already filed.
Originally Posted By Everrest:
You previously said it was logged in via the "computer" but not in their books. Is the computer the USPS "computer" of the FFL's?
FYI
If the FFL had possession he is required to report.
Report Firearms Theft / Loss
[quote]Any Federal Firearms Licensee who has knowledge of the theft or loss of any firearms from their inventory must report such theft or loss within 48 hours of discovery to ATF and to the local law enforcement agency. (Regulations at 27 CFR § 478.39a and implementing section 923(g)(6) require that the report of theft or loss be made by telephone and in writing to ATF).
You previously said it was logged in via the "computer" but not in their books. Is the computer the USPS "computer" of the FFL's?
FYI
If the FFL had possession he is required to report.
Report Firearms Theft / Loss
[quote]Any Federal Firearms Licensee who has knowledge of the theft or loss of any firearms from their inventory must report such theft or loss within 48 hours of discovery to ATF and to the local law enforcement agency. (Regulations at 27 CFR § 478.39a and implementing section 923(g)(6) require that the report of theft or loss be made by telephone and in writing to ATF).
{snip}
If you read the OP he said the FBI and ATF are investigating. So, it's likely the report was already filed.
I did read the OP. Just looking for a few more facts. Once an investigation starts you won't hear much from those involved.
(I'm suprised someone didn't tell him not to talk about it.)
12/23/2011 6:50:32 PM
After weeks and many headaches, the trigger pack was located. Not sure where or how it was found...........just glad its over. Thanks again for all the advice and happy shootin.
12/23/2011 6:58:13 PM
Originally Posted By eolsen:
After weeks and many headaches, the trigger pack was located. Not sure where or how it was found...........just glad its over. Thanks again for all the advice and happy shootin.
After weeks and many headaches, the trigger pack was located. Not sure where or how it was found...........just glad its over. Thanks again for all the advice and happy shootin.
Glad to hear there was a happy conclusion. So what happened? Your dealer just called and said "Come down and get it, we found it."?
12/23/2011 7:01:42 PM
Originally Posted By eolsen:
After weeks and many headaches, the trigger pack was located. Not sure where or how it was found...........just glad its over. Thanks again for all the advice and happy shootin.
After weeks and many headaches, the trigger pack was located. Not sure where or how it was found...........just glad its over. Thanks again for all the advice and happy shootin.
I'd bet it "fell" out of the persons pocket it jumped into several weeks ago because they were feeling the heat.
12/23/2011 7:27:10 PM
Thanks everyone for your inputs. The shop just called today and said there's good news/bad news..........good news is that it turned up, bad news is that I have to wait for the authorities to be notified before I start any ATF paperwork. Just to make sure everything was legit, I drove an hour down there so I could lay my eyes on it. It was the correct one and we can make forward progress now. I didn't ask what happened and am just relieved the headache is over for me and the shop owner.
Originally Posted By tctlrld:
Glad to hear there was a happy conclusion. So what happened? Your dealer just called and said "Come down and get it, we found it."?
Originally Posted By eolsen:
After weeks and many headaches, the trigger pack was located. Not sure where or how it was found...........just glad its over. Thanks again for all the advice and happy shootin.
After weeks and many headaches, the trigger pack was located. Not sure where or how it was found...........just glad its over. Thanks again for all the advice and happy shootin.
Glad to hear there was a happy conclusion. So what happened? Your dealer just called and said "Come down and get it, we found it."?
12/23/2011 9:17:52 PM
Well, Merry Christmas then. With luck you'll get to take it home for Easter.
12/23/2011 11:16:43 PM
You should still ask to see the report. Glad it worked out.
12/26/2011 11:25:51 PM
Not sure why they are making you wait to start the paperwork on it. I would press them to go ahead and submit the Form 4.
12/26/2011 11:26:37 PM
so will you continue to deal with US AutoWeapons in the future?
12/27/2011 4:18:04 PM
I have ten stamps pending and will only be using US Autoweapons to pick up my items. There's too many other dealers out there that will treat me as a customer and will be glad to have my business..........life's too short to deal with extra BS.
Originally Posted By hrt4me:
so will you continue to deal with US AutoWeapons in the future?
so will you continue to deal with US AutoWeapons in the future?
12/27/2011 4:24:22 PM
Probably will press it when I return from vacation. I have other F4's that I'm sitting on so all the paperwork can be submitted at once.
I was told by the gun shop that the authorities had to be notified and their paperwork had to be cleared first.............sounds likely, but not really sure what to believe anymore.
I was told by the gun shop that the authorities had to be notified and their paperwork had to be cleared first.............sounds likely, but not really sure what to believe anymore.
Originally Posted By bigcbass:
Not sure why they are making you wait to start the paperwork on it. I would press them to go ahead and submit the Form 4.
Not sure why they are making you wait to start the paperwork on it. I would press them to go ahead and submit the Form 4.
1/11/2012 10:38:01 PM
If anything like this happens again call the Postal Inspection Service. They will be all over it like flys on @#$%. They don't have anything else to do besides cases that involve mail.
1/12/2012 2:02:17 AM
Originally Posted By JDogg1000:
If anything like this happens again call the Postal Inspection Service. They will be all over it like flys on @#$%. They don't have anything else to do besides cases that involve mail.
If anything like this happens again call the Postal Inspection Service. They will be all over it like flys on @#$%. They don't have anything else to do besides cases that involve mail.
I tried filing multiple reports with them when I had a 1k worth of Uzi parts stolen by the mail recovery center fencing operation the postal service runs, all full-auto parts and never received as much as an email back. On the bright side though, I've had property returned to me bought from their auctions since it had my personal info engraved on it, only the postal service didn't seem to notice the information right in front of them. Sorry, but I have no faith in the very existence of the postal investigation service. I'm curious as to what involvement they would have in a case like this
1/12/2012 4:32:35 PM
Originally Posted By Fredmisery:
I tried filing multiple reports with them when I had a 1k worth of Uzi parts stolen by the mail recovery center fencing operation the postal service runs, all full-auto parts and never received as much as an email back. On the bright side though, I've had property returned to me bought from their auctions since it had my personal info engraved on it, only the postal service didn't seem to notice the information right in front of them. Sorry, but I have no faith in the very existence of the postal investigation service. I'm curious as to what involvement they would have in a case like this
Originally Posted By JDogg1000:
If anything like this happens again call the Postal Inspection Service. They will be all over it like flys on @#$%. They don't have anything else to do besides cases that involve mail.
If anything like this happens again call the Postal Inspection Service. They will be all over it like flys on @#$%. They don't have anything else to do besides cases that involve mail.
I tried filing multiple reports with them when I had a 1k worth of Uzi parts stolen by the mail recovery center fencing operation the postal service runs, all full-auto parts and never received as much as an email back. On the bright side though, I've had property returned to me bought from their auctions since it had my personal info engraved on it, only the postal service didn't seem to notice the information right in front of them. Sorry, but I have no faith in the very existence of the postal investigation service. I'm curious as to what involvement they would have in a case like this
Well that really stinks. The USPS and the Postal Inspectors are two different entities. Yes the USPS doesn't give a crap about their customers. It has always seemed to me that PI tend to be gung ho to make a name for themselves since they are not seen as "cool" like the FBI.
