Archived Posts » 59,789,155
Another confirm my legality thread
2/4/2012 6:43:55 AM
I currently have three complete ARs, two 16" and one 20".
I want to pick up some stripped lowers the next time PSA has a sale.
My question is this: would it be legal for me to have the three 16"+ ARs, 5 stripped lowers, and a complete SBR? What if I had all the LPK parts and stock components to turn some of the stripped lowers into complete lowers but still only 3 complete 16"+ uppers?
ETA: Just realized there was a Class 3 Legal section.
Perhaps this is better suited for that section.
I want to pick up some stripped lowers the next time PSA has a sale.
My question is this: would it be legal for me to have the three 16"+ ARs, 5 stripped lowers, and a complete SBR? What if I had all the LPK parts and stock components to turn some of the stripped lowers into complete lowers but still only 3 complete 16"+ uppers?
ETA: Just realized there was a Class 3 Legal section.
Perhaps this is better suited for that section.2/4/2012 10:40:54 AM
Originally Posted By Cytic:
I currently have three complete ARs, two 16" and one 20".
I want to pick up some stripped lowers the next time PSA has a sale.
My question is this: would it be legal for me to have the three 16"+ ARs, 5 stripped lowers, and a complete SBR? What if I had all the LPK parts and stock components to turn some of the stripped lowers into complete lowers but still only 3 complete 16"+ uppers?
ETA: Just realized there was a Class 3 Legal section. Perhaps this is better suited for that section.
I currently have three complete ARs, two 16" and one 20".
I want to pick up some stripped lowers the next time PSA has a sale.
My question is this: would it be legal for me to have the three 16"+ ARs, 5 stripped lowers, and a complete SBR? What if I had all the LPK parts and stock components to turn some of the stripped lowers into complete lowers but still only 3 complete 16"+ uppers?
ETA: Just realized there was a Class 3 Legal section.
Perhaps this is better suited for that section.As long as no short barreled upper reciever is ever illegally mated to an unregistered lower, and you have at least 1 single legitimately registered lower, you're fine. You can have as many short barrel uppers as you want, with as many lowers as you want.
This is basically like saying if you have an SBR you wouldn't be able to own any title II ARs anymore due to the possibility that you might put your short upper on the unregistered lower receiver.
Legally you're covered. Regardless of if the lowers are stripped or complete. 1 registered SBR is all you need to have all the lowers and uppers, NFA or not, that you want.
2/4/2012 11:46:50 AM
i was thinking you would need 1 upper for every non registered lower with a barrel of at least 16" 
2/4/2012 1:13:30 PM
Originally Posted By 1iviper:
i was thinking you would need 1 upper for every non registered lower with a barrel of at least 16"
i was thinking you would need 1 upper for every non registered lower with a barrel of at least 16"
Nope. 1 registered lower means you can have literally whatever uppers and number of uppers you want, regardless of how many unregistered lowers you have. Each and every upper you have could be considered parts to a modular system that you use that one lower for.
NFA regulations on short barreled rifles or shotguns was written back before the modularity of the AR15 was ever conceivable or thought of. The law stating that if you decide to permanently change the configuration of the rifle you must notify the NFA via letter doesn't particularly apply to the AR. Even if you sell the upper it was originally configured as at the time it was F1 or F4'd and put a different upper on it, the change isn't technically permanent because it literally takes pushing 2 pins and buying that particular upper again to change it back.
Having multiple unregistered lowers with no uppers and multiple short barreled uppers with no lowers attached to them doesn't matter because all of those uppers could technically be used for that single SBR registered lower.
The example I usually use is that if that were the case where every upper needed a lower or every lower needed an upper, if you owned even a single registered lower, you wouldn't be legally allowed to own NFA and non-NFA versions of the AR15 because technically, you could swap those two uppers between the two rifles and make an illegal SBR, even though you have a legally registered lower, and that's simply not the case.
1 or more SBR'd lowers = any number of short, long, square, round, upside down or otherwise uppers, complete non-NFA weapons, or stripped or complete unregisted lowers is fine.
2/4/2012 5:02:02 PM
Originally Posted By viperashes:
Nope. 1 registered lower means you can have literally whatever uppers and number of uppers you want, regardless of how many unregistered lowers you have. Each and every upper you have could be considered parts to a modular system that you use that one lower for.
NFA regulations on short barreled rifles or shotguns was written back before the modularity of the AR15 was ever conceivable or thought of. The law stating that if you decide to permanently change the configuration of the rifle you must notify the NFA via letter doesn't particularly apply to the AR. Even if you sell the upper it was originally configured as at the time it was F1 or F4'd and put a different upper on it, the change isn't technically permanent because it literally takes pushing 2 pins and buying that particular upper again to change it back.
Having multiple unregistered lowers with no uppers and multiple short barreled uppers with no lowers attached to them doesn't matter because all of those uppers could technically be used for that single SBR registered lower.
The example I usually use is that if that were the case where every upper needed a lower or every lower needed an upper, if you owned even a single registered lower, you wouldn't be legally allowed to own NFA and non-NFA versions of the AR15 because technically, you could swap those two uppers between the two rifles and make an illegal SBR, even though you have a legally registered lower, and that's simply not the case.
1 or more SBR'd lowers = any number of short, long, square, round, upside down or otherwise uppers, complete non-NFA weapons, or stripped or complete unregisted lowers is fine.
Originally Posted By 1iviper:
i was thinking you would need 1 upper for every non registered lower with a barrel of at least 16"
i was thinking you would need 1 upper for every non registered lower with a barrel of at least 16"
Nope. 1 registered lower means you can have literally whatever uppers and number of uppers you want, regardless of how many unregistered lowers you have. Each and every upper you have could be considered parts to a modular system that you use that one lower for.
NFA regulations on short barreled rifles or shotguns was written back before the modularity of the AR15 was ever conceivable or thought of. The law stating that if you decide to permanently change the configuration of the rifle you must notify the NFA via letter doesn't particularly apply to the AR. Even if you sell the upper it was originally configured as at the time it was F1 or F4'd and put a different upper on it, the change isn't technically permanent because it literally takes pushing 2 pins and buying that particular upper again to change it back.
Having multiple unregistered lowers with no uppers and multiple short barreled uppers with no lowers attached to them doesn't matter because all of those uppers could technically be used for that single SBR registered lower.
The example I usually use is that if that were the case where every upper needed a lower or every lower needed an upper, if you owned even a single registered lower, you wouldn't be legally allowed to own NFA and non-NFA versions of the AR15 because technically, you could swap those two uppers between the two rifles and make an illegal SBR, even though you have a legally registered lower, and that's simply not the case.
1 or more SBR'd lowers = any number of short, long, square, round, upside down or otherwise uppers, complete non-NFA weapons, or stripped or complete unregisted lowers is fine.
hypothetical situation : say i own just 1 ar lower and it's registered as an sbr. for that lower i keep a couple of different upper's say a 10.5" , a 14.5" , and a 7" for some fun
then say i run across a deal on some lmt or colt lower's and i just can't turn the deal down and purchase 2 or 3
i take them home and plop them in the safe next to my other guns.
would you say i was in compliance with the law
2/4/2012 5:30:15 PM
Originally Posted By 1iviper:
hypothetical situation : say i own just 1 ar lower and it's registered as an sbr. for that lower i keep a couple of different upper's say a 10.5" , a 14.5" , and a 7" for some fun
then say i run across a deal on some lmt or colt lower's and i just can't turn the deal down and purchase 2 or 3
i take them home and plop them in the safe next to my other guns.
would you say i was in compliance with the law
Originally Posted By viperashes:
Nope. 1 registered lower means you can have literally whatever uppers and number of uppers you want, regardless of how many unregistered lowers you have. Each and every upper you have could be considered parts to a modular system that you use that one lower for.
NFA regulations on short barreled rifles or shotguns was written back before the modularity of the AR15 was ever conceivable or thought of. The law stating that if you decide to permanently change the configuration of the rifle you must notify the NFA via letter doesn't particularly apply to the AR. Even if you sell the upper it was originally configured as at the time it was F1 or F4'd and put a different upper on it, the change isn't technically permanent because it literally takes pushing 2 pins and buying that particular upper again to change it back.
Having multiple unregistered lowers with no uppers and multiple short barreled uppers with no lowers attached to them doesn't matter because all of those uppers could technically be used for that single SBR registered lower.
The example I usually use is that if that were the case where every upper needed a lower or every lower needed an upper, if you owned even a single registered lower, you wouldn't be legally allowed to own NFA and non-NFA versions of the AR15 because technically, you could swap those two uppers between the two rifles and make an illegal SBR, even though you have a legally registered lower, and that's simply not the case.
1 or more SBR'd lowers = any number of short, long, square, round, upside down or otherwise uppers, complete non-NFA weapons, or stripped or complete unregisted lowers is fine.
Originally Posted By 1iviper:
i was thinking you would need 1 upper for every non registered lower with a barrel of at least 16"
i was thinking you would need 1 upper for every non registered lower with a barrel of at least 16"
Nope. 1 registered lower means you can have literally whatever uppers and number of uppers you want, regardless of how many unregistered lowers you have. Each and every upper you have could be considered parts to a modular system that you use that one lower for.
NFA regulations on short barreled rifles or shotguns was written back before the modularity of the AR15 was ever conceivable or thought of. The law stating that if you decide to permanently change the configuration of the rifle you must notify the NFA via letter doesn't particularly apply to the AR. Even if you sell the upper it was originally configured as at the time it was F1 or F4'd and put a different upper on it, the change isn't technically permanent because it literally takes pushing 2 pins and buying that particular upper again to change it back.
Having multiple unregistered lowers with no uppers and multiple short barreled uppers with no lowers attached to them doesn't matter because all of those uppers could technically be used for that single SBR registered lower.
The example I usually use is that if that were the case where every upper needed a lower or every lower needed an upper, if you owned even a single registered lower, you wouldn't be legally allowed to own NFA and non-NFA versions of the AR15 because technically, you could swap those two uppers between the two rifles and make an illegal SBR, even though you have a legally registered lower, and that's simply not the case.
1 or more SBR'd lowers = any number of short, long, square, round, upside down or otherwise uppers, complete non-NFA weapons, or stripped or complete unregisted lowers is fine.
hypothetical situation : say i own just 1 ar lower and it's registered as an sbr. for that lower i keep a couple of different upper's say a 10.5" , a 14.5" , and a 7" for some fun
then say i run across a deal on some lmt or colt lower's and i just can't turn the deal down and purchase 2 or 3
i take them home and plop them in the safe next to my other guns.
would you say i was in compliance with the law
I wouldnt see any problem with that. You already have a registered lower, and as long as those other NFA uppers arent mounted on any of the other lowers....your complying with the law.
2/5/2012 12:03:40 PM
Exactly. You at that point have the defense that you are in accordance to NFA law. Because of how modular the AR is, each of those uppers can technically be treated as a "parts kit" for that single registered lower. Those other lowers that are sitting there are entirely different weapons.
As long as you don't install a short upper on a non registered lower you're within the law. As long as you don't go around saying a bunch of stuff about how you have a bunch of short uppers and a bunch of upperless lowers sitting in your safe, nobody is going to care anyway. Don't give anyone reason to be suspicious of ill intentions and you'll never have any issues.
As long as you don't install a short upper on a non registered lower you're within the law. As long as you don't go around saying a bunch of stuff about how you have a bunch of short uppers and a bunch of upperless lowers sitting in your safe, nobody is going to care anyway. Don't give anyone reason to be suspicious of ill intentions and you'll never have any issues.
