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Can not fully close trigger guard on new M1 stock
4/21/2012 5:49:50 PM
Hey guys, I got all my parts from Mr. mailman this morning and I have been working a couple of hours to try and make all the wood fit correctly.
The biggest headache right now is that the trigger guard will not go all the way up and lock, and I am afraid to force it any more. my old stock had more material out in that small area right behind the trigger, which allowed it to recess maybe another 1/8". I am wondering if I should remove a little at a time from that area until it locks up, or just send it to someone with a clue?
Any help is greatly appreciated. TIA
The biggest headache right now is that the trigger guard will not go all the way up and lock, and I am afraid to force it any more. my old stock had more material out in that small area right behind the trigger, which allowed it to recess maybe another 1/8". I am wondering if I should remove a little at a time from that area until it locks up, or just send it to someone with a clue?
Any help is greatly appreciated. TIA
4/21/2012 5:55:14 PM
Remove the wood where the pad makes contact VERY SLOWLY until you can barely lock the the trigger group.
4/21/2012 6:01:36 PM
That's actually about how far you want the trigger guard to draw on the action.
4/21/2012 7:52:26 PM
Originally Posted By ziarifleman:
That's actually about how far you want the trigger guard to draw on the action.
That's actually about how far you want the trigger guard to draw on the action.
In the picture I am applying a fair amount of force to get the guard as close as it is.
4/22/2012 2:08:07 AM
Originally Posted By Hatrick:
In the picture I am applying a fair amount of force to get the guard as close as it is.
Originally Posted By ziarifleman:
That's actually about how far you want the trigger guard to draw on the action.
That's actually about how far you want the trigger guard to draw on the action.
In the picture I am applying a fair amount of force to get the guard as close as it is.
That's where you want it, use a mallet to take it home. I have a picture somewhere of ordinance workers putting in trigger guards, they were using mallets to drive em home. The wood will compress and loosen up in time. BTW nice score on your early trigger guard.
4/22/2012 6:28:21 AM
Don't remove any wood - do like the poster above said and use a mallet to get it to lock up. You want as tight a lock-up as possible. If you're not going to shoot it frequently, it's better to leave it unlocked so the wood doesn't compress as much over time.
4/22/2012 9:00:48 AM
All right boys, I reefed on her with both hands and she snapped shut tighter than a bulls ass during fly time.
Working on removing wood where it contacts the barrel and the op rod inside the stock, and soon it will be GTG. Thanks for the help everyone.
Working on removing wood where it contacts the barrel and the op rod inside the stock, and soon it will be GTG. Thanks for the help everyone.
4/22/2012 9:34:57 AM
Sounds like a good tight stock.
Do you have a thin bit of daylight showing under the rear of the receiver from just behind the legs of the receiver to an inch before the heel?
(I'll post pics to clarify if you need me to).
Do you have a thin bit of daylight showing under the rear of the receiver from just behind the legs of the receiver to an inch before the heel?
(I'll post pics to clarify if you need me to).
4/22/2012 10:08:54 AM
Store the rifle with the guard open so it doesn't compress the wood.
4/22/2012 11:44:50 PM
Originally Posted By Eight_Ring:
Sounds like a good tight stock.
Do you have a thin bit of daylight showing under the rear of the receiver from just behind the legs of the receiver to an inch before the heel?
(I'll post pics to clarify if you need me to).
Sounds like a good tight stock.
Do you have a thin bit of daylight showing under the rear of the receiver from just behind the legs of the receiver to an inch before the heel?
(I'll post pics to clarify if you need me to).
Can't say for sure that I do, but if you have a pic that would be good.
4/23/2012 1:12:03 AM
I had the same issue when I bought a new stock for my M-1. A very knowledgable M-1 gunsmith who builds match guns told me to remove material from the top of the stock where the receiver fits until the guard will lock. I used inletting black to keep track of where the contact was exactly as I sanded until she would snap shut with a good bit of force. Sounds like you might want to remove just a slight bit off the top of yours. The stock finish will add a couple thousands thickness as well. Mine locks up tight as a drum and the fitment method I used made sure that the whole receiver laid hard and absolutely flat against the top of the stock. Perfect fit.
4/23/2012 2:37:06 AM
Originally Posted By davemcf89:
Don't remove any wood - do like the poster above said and use a mallet to get it to lock up. You want as tight a lock-up as possible. If you're not going to shoot it frequently, it's better to leave it unlocked so the wood doesn't compress as much over time.
Don't remove any wood - do like the poster above said and use a mallet to get it to lock up. You want as tight a lock-up as possible. If you're not going to shoot it frequently, it's better to leave it unlocked so the wood doesn't compress as much over time.
What he said
4/23/2012 6:04:40 AM
Every rifle/stock is a little different.
I've removed material from the top and I've removed material from the bottom. Both worked for me. Depends on how the receiver/trigger housing fits into the stock.
My M1A sat in the wood stock with the trigger guard locked up for almost 30 years with no issues. When I was in the Army the armorers did not unlock the trigger guards when placing the rifles into the racks when we turned them in at the end of the day. None of my M1 Garands are unlocked as they sit in their cases or the safe. I've made two trips to the CMP North Store and the M1 Garands sitting in the racks there did not have the trigger guard unlocked. Not sure where the idea came from that it is bad for the stock. The only loose M1 Garand I ever handled/bought was in a Greek stock (someone said later it was a European beech wood stock by the way it stained when I tried to clean it up/refinish it - ugly, really ugly with all kinds of spots that would not take stain). I put that stock on a shelf in the shed and bought a new stock for the rifle.
I've removed material from the top and I've removed material from the bottom. Both worked for me. Depends on how the receiver/trigger housing fits into the stock.
My M1A sat in the wood stock with the trigger guard locked up for almost 30 years with no issues. When I was in the Army the armorers did not unlock the trigger guards when placing the rifles into the racks when we turned them in at the end of the day. None of my M1 Garands are unlocked as they sit in their cases or the safe. I've made two trips to the CMP North Store and the M1 Garands sitting in the racks there did not have the trigger guard unlocked. Not sure where the idea came from that it is bad for the stock. The only loose M1 Garand I ever handled/bought was in a Greek stock (someone said later it was a European beech wood stock by the way it stained when I tried to clean it up/refinish it - ugly, really ugly with all kinds of spots that would not take stain). I put that stock on a shelf in the shed and bought a new stock for the rifle.
4/23/2012 6:12:54 AM
Originally Posted By madcratebuilder:
Store the rifle with the guard open so it doesn't compress the wood.
Store the rifle with the guard open so it doesn't compress the wood.
Totally unnecessary. Kinda like storing mags empty so you don't compress the spring.
4/23/2012 10:04:58 AM
Originally Posted By fishngrits:
Totally unnecessary. Kinda like storing mags empty so you don't compress the spring.
Originally Posted By madcratebuilder:
Store the rifle with the guard open so it doesn't compress the wood.
Store the rifle with the guard open so it doesn't compress the wood.
Totally unnecessary. Kinda like storing mags empty so you don't compress the spring.
Leaving the guard locked well compress the wood fibers over time resulting in a looser fit. Steel doesn't compress, poor analogy.
4/23/2012 12:15:33 PM
Originally Posted By Petro:
Remove the wood where the pad makes contact VERY SLOWLY until you can barely lock the the trigger group.
Remove the wood where the pad makes contact VERY SLOWLY until you can barely lock the the trigger group.
I just did that very thing to my M1 yesterday and it worked like a champ
4/23/2012 5:34:12 PM
Originally Posted By madcratebuilder:
Leaving the guard locked well compress the wood fibers over time resulting in a looser fit. Steel doesn't compress, poor analogy.
Originally Posted By fishngrits:
Totally unnecessary. Kinda like storing mags empty so you don't compress the spring.
Originally Posted By madcratebuilder:
Store the rifle with the guard open so it doesn't compress the wood.
Store the rifle with the guard open so it doesn't compress the wood.
Totally unnecessary. Kinda like storing mags empty so you don't compress the spring.
Leaving the guard locked well compress the wood fibers over time resulting in a looser fit. Steel doesn't compress, poor analogy.
You can believe that fairy tale all you want, but the millions of M1s/M1As built over the last seven decades, and stored with the trigger guards locked for years on end, say otherwise.
4/23/2012 7:54:28 PM
You do not remove wood from the top of the stock where the reciver sets evenly
You measure in approx 1 inch in from the receiver heel and remove just a slight amount up to the receiver legs
Look at uncompressed USGI stock, if you hold it up to the light you will see a slight gap under the receiver
I have reworked many commercial Garand stocks and this is just one of the many modifications they need
You measure in approx 1 inch in from the receiver heel and remove just a slight amount up to the receiver legs
Look at uncompressed USGI stock, if you hold it up to the light you will see a slight gap under the receiver
I have reworked many commercial Garand stocks and this is just one of the many modifications they need
4/25/2012 2:55:39 AM
Originally Posted By GRMGR1:
I had the same issue when I bought a new stock for my M-1. A very knowledgable M-1 gunsmith who builds match guns told me to remove material from the top of the stock where the receiver fits until the guard will lock. I used inletting black to keep track of where the contact was exactly as I sanded until she would snap shut with a good bit of force. Sounds like you might want to remove just a slight bit off the top of yours. The stock finish will add a couple thousands thickness as well. Mine locks up tight as a drum and the fitment method I used made sure that the whole receiver laid hard and absolutely flat against the top of the stock. Perfect fit.
I had the same issue when I bought a new stock for my M-1. A very knowledgable M-1 gunsmith who builds match guns told me to remove material from the top of the stock where the receiver fits until the guard will lock. I used inletting black to keep track of where the contact was exactly as I sanded until she would snap shut with a good bit of force. Sounds like you might want to remove just a slight bit off the top of yours. The stock finish will add a couple thousands thickness as well. Mine locks up tight as a drum and the fitment method I used made sure that the whole receiver laid hard and absolutely flat against the top of the stock. Perfect fit.
See the post above. You DO NOT want the entire receiver in contact with the top of the stock.
4/25/2012 4:45:13 AM
Don't remove any wood!!! (to loosen the fit that is, some inletting of the barrel channel will just make her smoother and more accurate if the barrel or op rod are contacting the wood) A tight fit is perfect for accuracy and the wood will only loosen over time. My CMP Special is like that and I have give the trigger guard a good smack with a rubber mallet to close it.
4/26/2012 8:20:17 AM
Originally Posted By Brazos:
See the post above. You DO NOT want the entire receiver in contact with the top of the stock.
Originally Posted By GRMGR1:
I had the same issue when I bought a new stock for my M-1. A very knowledgable M-1 gunsmith who builds match guns told me to remove material from the top of the stock where the receiver fits until the guard will lock. I used inletting black to keep track of where the contact was exactly as I sanded until she would snap shut with a good bit of force. Sounds like you might want to remove just a slight bit off the top of yours. The stock finish will add a couple thousands thickness as well. Mine locks up tight as a drum and the fitment method I used made sure that the whole receiver laid hard and absolutely flat against the top of the stock. Perfect fit.
I had the same issue when I bought a new stock for my M-1. A very knowledgable M-1 gunsmith who builds match guns told me to remove material from the top of the stock where the receiver fits until the guard will lock. I used inletting black to keep track of where the contact was exactly as I sanded until she would snap shut with a good bit of force. Sounds like you might want to remove just a slight bit off the top of yours. The stock finish will add a couple thousands thickness as well. Mine locks up tight as a drum and the fitment method I used made sure that the whole receiver laid hard and absolutely flat against the top of the stock. Perfect fit.
See the post above. You DO NOT want the entire receiver in contact with the top of the stock.
+1
This is how I set mine up.
I've lost count of the number of comments that it is not going to be accurate because the heel is floated above the wood.
4/26/2012 7:21:16 PM
According to most match armorers, the area you want to see the gap underneath the reciever is from immediately behind the legs to an inch IN FRONT OF the heel––the areas corresponding to the lighter (sanded) areas in the photo posted by M1G above. Sorry I dropped the ball posting apicture, and if you have your doubts just call bullshit and I'll post a pic of a USGI stock compressed at the heel and NOT compressed in the areas shown in M1G's photo.
It is a paper-thin gap through which you can see a clean sliver of light and which allows the receiver to flex under recoil just a bit––and I believe I read Gus Fisher saying that relieving this area could help alleviate problems associated with the "7th round stoppage" malfunction. (Somebody check me on that, if you would).
madcrate––probably the most important aspect of accuracy is the downward pressure applied at the front ferrule, which puts the barrel under constant tension so that it delivers a repeatable harmonic signature from shot to shot. That is probably the most important reason NOT to sand the top of the stock, and especially not forward of the legs, because by doing so you are lessening the downward pull provided by the ferrule.
If your stock strings wildly (vertically)––try making some shims for just the front of the receiver, just the first inch and a half of the front of the receiver. I watched a Garand go from 30 inches of vertical stringing (all along a perfect line, maybe only an inch wide,, top to bottom) to shooting like a match rifle, just by adding two small veneer shims at the front of the receiver. It was totally amazing.
It is a paper-thin gap through which you can see a clean sliver of light and which allows the receiver to flex under recoil just a bit––and I believe I read Gus Fisher saying that relieving this area could help alleviate problems associated with the "7th round stoppage" malfunction. (Somebody check me on that, if you would).
madcrate––probably the most important aspect of accuracy is the downward pressure applied at the front ferrule, which puts the barrel under constant tension so that it delivers a repeatable harmonic signature from shot to shot. That is probably the most important reason NOT to sand the top of the stock, and especially not forward of the legs, because by doing so you are lessening the downward pull provided by the ferrule.
If your stock strings wildly (vertically)––try making some shims for just the front of the receiver, just the first inch and a half of the front of the receiver. I watched a Garand go from 30 inches of vertical stringing (all along a perfect line, maybe only an inch wide,, top to bottom) to shooting like a match rifle, just by adding two small veneer shims at the front of the receiver. It was totally amazing.
5/19/2012 8:59:06 AM
My garand always takes firm pressure from the heel of my hand to close. Recently the humidity was fairly high and I couldn't get the trigger guard to close at all. I picked up a rubber mallet and one firm shot locked it up. I've been told the original armorers used this tool. Videos on utube.
5/19/2012 9:35:11 AM
Originally Posted By yacawntmiss:
My garand always takes firm pressure from the heel of my hand to close. Recently the humidity was fairly high and I couldn't get the trigger guard to close at all. I picked up a rubber mallet and one firm shot locked it up. I've been told the original armorers used this tool. Videos on utube.
My garand always takes firm pressure from the heel of my hand to close. Recently the humidity was fairly high and I couldn't get the trigger guard to close at all. I picked up a rubber mallet and one firm shot locked it up. I've been told the original armorers used this tool. Videos on utube.
The original armorers methods of disassembling and assembling these guns was just short of brutal.
Hammers figure prominently.
5/20/2012 11:44:51 PM
Originally Posted By Petro:
Remove the wood where the pad makes contact VERY SLOWLY until you can barely lock the the trigger group.
Remove the wood where the pad makes contact VERY SLOWLY until you can barely lock the the trigger group.
NO!!!! DO NOT REMOVE WOOD!!! Apply first pressure to achieve lockup, or use the mallet as stated above. There are plenty of owner with older stocks that would love to have your problem...
5/27/2012 12:55:53 PM
Originally Posted By fishngrits:
You can believe that fairy tale all you want, but the millions of M1s/M1As built over the last seven decades, and stored with the trigger guards locked for years on end, say otherwise.
Originally Posted By madcratebuilder:
Leaving the guard locked well compress the wood fibers over time resulting in a looser fit. Steel doesn't compress, poor analogy.
Originally Posted By fishngrits:
Totally unnecessary. Kinda like storing mags empty so you don't compress the spring.
Originally Posted By madcratebuilder:
Store the rifle with the guard open so it doesn't compress the wood.
Store the rifle with the guard open so it doesn't compress the wood.
Totally unnecessary. Kinda like storing mags empty so you don't compress the spring.
Leaving the guard locked well compress the wood fibers over time resulting in a looser fit. Steel doesn't compress, poor analogy.
You can believe that fairy tale all you want, but the millions of M1s/M1As built over the last seven decades, and stored with the trigger guards locked for years on end, say otherwise.
5/27/2012 1:55:46 PM
My M1A, bought new in 1978, was in its wood stock with the trigger guard locked down from when I bought it till about 5 years ago. It was just as tight when I stopped using the wood stock as when I bought it (its in a GI synthetic stock now).
My M1s are sitting in the safe, in their wood stocks, some of those stocks are pretty darn old (so are the rifles). Maybe, one of these days when I'm gone, my kids or grandchildren will say, "darn, I wish grandpa hadn't stored his M1 Garands with the trigger guards closed."
My M1s are sitting in the safe, in their wood stocks, some of those stocks are pretty darn old (so are the rifles). Maybe, one of these days when I'm gone, my kids or grandchildren will say, "darn, I wish grandpa hadn't stored his M1 Garands with the trigger guards closed."
5/28/2012 8:22:43 AM
Originally Posted By faawrenchbndr:
Originally Posted By fishngrits:
You can believe that fairy tale all you want, but the millions of M1s/M1As built over the last seven decades, and stored with the trigger guards locked for years on end, say otherwise.
Originally Posted By madcratebuilder:
Leaving the guard locked well compress the wood fibers over time resulting in a looser fit. Steel doesn't compress, poor analogy.
Originally Posted By fishngrits:
Totally unnecessary. Kinda like storing mags empty so you don't compress the spring.
Originally Posted By madcratebuilder:
Store the rifle with the guard open so it doesn't compress the wood.
Store the rifle with the guard open so it doesn't compress the wood.
Totally unnecessary. Kinda like storing mags empty so you don't compress the spring.
Leaving the guard locked well compress the wood fibers over time resulting in a looser fit. Steel doesn't compress, poor analogy.
You can believe that fairy tale all you want, but the millions of M1s/M1As built over the last seven decades, and stored with the trigger guards locked for years on end, say otherwise.
5/28/2012 10:26:00 AM
Originally Posted By fishngrits:
Originally Posted By faawrenchbndr:
Originally Posted By fishngrits:
You can believe that fairy tale all you want, but the millions of M1s/M1As built over the last seven decades, and stored with the trigger guards locked for years on end, say otherwise.
Originally Posted By madcratebuilder:
Leaving the guard locked well compress the wood fibers over time resulting in a looser fit. Steel doesn't compress, poor analogy.
Originally Posted By fishngrits:
Totally unnecessary. Kinda like storing mags empty so you don't compress the spring.
Originally Posted By madcratebuilder:
Store the rifle with the guard open so it doesn't compress the wood.
Store the rifle with the guard open so it doesn't compress the wood.
Totally unnecessary. Kinda like storing mags empty so you don't compress the spring.
Leaving the guard locked well compress the wood fibers over time resulting in a looser fit. Steel doesn't compress, poor analogy.
You can believe that fairy tale all you want, but the millions of M1s/M1As built over the last seven decades, and stored with the trigger guards locked for years on end, say otherwise.
