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planning on building my 1st fal
12/13/2011 8:01:23 AM
ok guys decided to build my 1st fal as an x-mas present to my self.
totally new to fals, what do I want to look for in a kit and barrel?
found metric fn g1 kit at apex gun parts, price is right, is this a good kit, anything to watch out for??
also apex has "used" metric barrels for $75 dollars, should I get the barrel as well, or pay more for a new one from dsa
was thinking that if I end up getting a new one it'll probably be the 16.25" barrel, but for $75 the used 21" seems hard to beat.
any advice???
totally new to fals, what do I want to look for in a kit and barrel?
found metric fn g1 kit at apex gun parts, price is right, is this a good kit, anything to watch out for??
also apex has "used" metric barrels for $75 dollars, should I get the barrel as well, or pay more for a new one from dsa
was thinking that if I end up getting a new one it'll probably be the 16.25" barrel, but for $75 the used 21" seems hard to beat.
any advice???
12/13/2011 9:21:41 AM
the kits from Apex seem to ok. Finish is gone. Some say they're only good for spare parts, but I bet I could make a rifle out of one. May need some new parts, so keep that in mind. The barrels they sale are not "correct" for the kit. This means they do no have the bi-pod cut, but you can go to Sarco and find an Argentine barrel (if still in stock) that does have the bi-pod cut.
You will also need some pin gauges, a receiver wrench, new locking shoulder, and go, no-go gauges to assemble. IMO, the only rifle easier to assemble is the AR. Have fun and look forward to seeing pictures!
You will also need some pin gauges, a receiver wrench, new locking shoulder, and go, no-go gauges to assemble. IMO, the only rifle easier to assemble is the AR. Have fun and look forward to seeing pictures!
12/13/2011 9:30:18 AM
I've been thinking about building one as well. I have done some research on FAL Files but I haven't found the answer to this question.
I build AR's so I have a vice and a bench but I don't want to spend a bunch on some specialized FAL tools.
What are the minimum tools required to build an FAL?
I build AR's so I have a vice and a bench but I don't want to spend a bunch on some specialized FAL tools.
What are the minimum tools required to build an FAL?
12/13/2011 10:28:49 AM
thanks for the info, will look into the barrel from sarco
any info on other inexpensive kits floating around, sarcos izzy kit seems a bit pricey, I realize that most of the kits are gone now but any heads up for a better option than the apex g1 kits would be much appreciated as well
any info on other inexpensive kits floating around, sarcos izzy kit seems a bit pricey, I realize that most of the kits are gone now but any heads up for a better option than the apex g1 kits would be much appreciated as well
12/13/2011 2:07:40 PM
Originally Posted By Falcon09:
I build AR's so I have a vice and a bench but I don't want to spend a bunch on some specialized FAL tools.
I build AR's so I have a vice and a bench but I don't want to spend a bunch on some specialized FAL tools.
Nictra listed them for you above. It's not an AR; there really are some additional tools needed.
They will run you about $100-200 depending upon your ability to beg / borrow/ score deals.
ETA:
My "minimum" tool list would also include a torque wrench and a GOOD barrel vice.
A lathe would also be required if the barrel doesn't time correctly on the new receiver.
That "sandpaper / file on the barrel shoulder" nonsense advocated in various places is just that: nonsense.
Do yourself a favor: buy a good manual or DVD on the subject such as this one before you cut metal or spend money.
12/13/2011 4:59:58 PM
Falcon, depending on where you live, I could help you out.
12/13/2011 6:00:53 PM
Originally Posted By nictra:
Falcon, depending on where you live, I could help you out.
Falcon, depending on where you live, I could help you out.
I appreciate the offer and I will contact you if/when I decide to build one.
12/13/2011 7:20:06 PM
Enterprise Arms has Imbel FAL kits for $329 right now but they are almost sold out. The do include a barrel and the finish I'm told is gone. I ordered one for Christmas. We'll see how it looks when it arrives.
12/15/2011 8:22:34 PM
I ordered a G1 parts kit from Apex exactly a year ago. The buttstock and pistol grip were wood and in good shape, but everything else is rusty as hell and will require refinishing. I'd imagine whatever they have left in stock is about the same or worse.
I also ordered one of those bipod cut barrels from Sarco. Still need an upper receiver and all of the 922r compliant parts. Not sure if I want to make it as close to original as possible or some FrankenFAL monstrosity.
I also ordered one of those bipod cut barrels from Sarco. Still need an upper receiver and all of the 922r compliant parts. Not sure if I want to make it as close to original as possible or some FrankenFAL monstrosity.
12/15/2011 10:53:25 PM
I say go for it. Additional tools only run about $200, and you can always sell them on the EE when your done if you don't think you'll need them for another build. It's pretty straight forward as long as you pay attention to the headspacing. The only real thing that can go wrong is if the barrel dosen't time right.
I give an AR build maybe a 2/10 in difficulty, a FAL is about a 4/10 only because you can screw up the headspacing.
Aside from the techinal part the only other thing to concider is how you plan to refinish the parts unless your going for a battlefield look.
I give an AR build maybe a 2/10 in difficulty, a FAL is about a 4/10 only because you can screw up the headspacing.
Aside from the techinal part the only other thing to concider is how you plan to refinish the parts unless your going for a battlefield look.
12/15/2011 11:26:23 PM
I am an FAL newby and just finished my first two Apex kits above this summer. I borrowed an old AGI video on the FAL's and watched it all the way through twice. It answered a lot of the inch vs. metric questions and explained the differences in models pretty well. I was at least competant enough to take it on at that point.
The barrels Apex has are South African take-offs and are not bipod cut. You can try to locate a bipod cut barrel on Gunbroker, find someone to modify it for you, or do it yourself if you have a lathe and mill. I modified both of my barrels. The G1 uses a flash hider that locks onto a dovetail (no threads) where the Model B uses 9/16-24 RH threads IIRC. Ifyou want to know more about modifying the barrels, I posted something here: http://www.militaryfirearm.com/Forum/showthread.php?20584-Converting-a-South-African-FAL-barrel-to-a-bipod-cut-G1-barrel&highlight=barrel
Readers digest build thread here:http://www.militaryfirearm.com/Forum/showthread.php?20872-Holescreek-s-first-FAL-builds
I made a receiver wrench and borrowed a friend's barrel wrench and 7.62x51 NATO headspace gages. .308 gages are not the same! I made a T-handled spring remover ($12 from many supply places) to keep from launching the spring across the room. Another tool I made was a modified piece of pipe to drive the front sight/gas block on. Those were really the only special tools needed.
The rust on the kits wasn't bad but I glass beaded all the parts anyway before finishing. I black oxided the Model B (wood grip) and parkerized the G1. Aside from the tools you are also going to need some US parts, I bought mine from Falcon Arms.
12/17/2011 9:53:54 AM
Originally Posted By Holescreek:
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y29/Holescreek/FAL/bothFALfiinished007.jpg
I am an FAL newby and just finished my first two Apex kits above this summer. I borrowed an old AGI video on the FAL's and watched it all the way through twice. It answered a lot of the inch vs. metric questions and explained the differences in models pretty well. I was at least competant enough to take it on at that point.
The barrels Apex has are South African take-offs and are not bipod cut. You can try to locate a bipod cut barrel on Gunbroker, find someone to modify it for you, or do it yourself if you have a lathe and mill. I modified both of my barrels. The G1 uses a flash hider that locks onto a dovetail (no threads) where the Model B uses 9/16-24 RH threads IIRC. Ifyou want to know more about modifying the barrels, I posted something here: http://www.militaryfirearm.com/Forum/showthread.php?20584-Converting-a-South-African-FAL-barrel-to-a-bipod-cut-G1-barrel&highlight=barrel
Readers digest build thread here:http://www.militaryfirearm.com/Forum/showthread.php?20872-Holescreek-s-first-FAL-builds
I made a receiver wrench and borrowed a friend's barrel wrench and 7.62x51 NATO headspace gages. .308 gages are not the same! I made a T-handled spring remover ($12 from many supply places) to keep from launching the spring across the room. Another tool I made was a modified piece of pipe to drive the front sight/gas block on. Those were really the only special tools needed.
The rust on the kits wasn't bad but I glass beaded all the parts anyway before finishing. I black oxided the Model B (wood grip) and parkerized the G1. Aside from the tools you are also going to need some US parts, I bought mine from Falcon Arms.
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y29/Holescreek/FAL/bothFALfiinished007.jpg
I am an FAL newby and just finished my first two Apex kits above this summer. I borrowed an old AGI video on the FAL's and watched it all the way through twice. It answered a lot of the inch vs. metric questions and explained the differences in models pretty well. I was at least competant enough to take it on at that point.
The barrels Apex has are South African take-offs and are not bipod cut. You can try to locate a bipod cut barrel on Gunbroker, find someone to modify it for you, or do it yourself if you have a lathe and mill. I modified both of my barrels. The G1 uses a flash hider that locks onto a dovetail (no threads) where the Model B uses 9/16-24 RH threads IIRC. Ifyou want to know more about modifying the barrels, I posted something here: http://www.militaryfirearm.com/Forum/showthread.php?20584-Converting-a-South-African-FAL-barrel-to-a-bipod-cut-G1-barrel&highlight=barrel
Readers digest build thread here:http://www.militaryfirearm.com/Forum/showthread.php?20872-Holescreek-s-first-FAL-builds
I made a receiver wrench and borrowed a friend's barrel wrench and 7.62x51 NATO headspace gages. .308 gages are not the same! I made a T-handled spring remover ($12 from many supply places) to keep from launching the spring across the room. Another tool I made was a modified piece of pipe to drive the front sight/gas block on. Those were really the only special tools needed.
The rust on the kits wasn't bad but I glass beaded all the parts anyway before finishing. I black oxided the Model B (wood grip) and parkerized the G1. Aside from the tools you are also going to need some US parts, I bought mine from Falcon Arms.
just curious but what was the end cost for you on the 2 builds?
12/17/2011 9:54:25 AM
and nice job they look great.
12/17/2011 10:19:20 AM
Originally Posted By usar_ds:
just curious but what was the end cost for you on the 2 builds?
Originally Posted By Holescreek:
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y29/Holescreek/FAL/bothFALfiinished007.jpg
I am an FAL newby and just finished my first two Apex kits above this summer. I borrowed an old AGI video on the FAL's and watched it all the way through twice. It answered a lot of the inch vs. metric questions and explained the differences in models pretty well. I was at least competant enough to take it on at that point.
The barrels Apex has are South African take-offs and are not bipod cut. You can try to locate a bipod cut barrel on Gunbroker, find someone to modify it for you, or do it yourself if you have a lathe and mill. I modified both of my barrels. The G1 uses a flash hider that locks onto a dovetail (no threads) where the Model B uses 9/16-24 RH threads IIRC. Ifyou want to know more about modifying the barrels, I posted something here: http://www.militaryfirearm.com/Forum/showthread.php?20584-Converting-a-South-African-FAL-barrel-to-a-bipod-cut-G1-barrel&highlight=barrel
Readers digest build thread here:http://www.militaryfirearm.com/Forum/showthread.php?20872-Holescreek-s-first-FAL-builds
I made a receiver wrench and borrowed a friend's barrel wrench and 7.62x51 NATO headspace gages. .308 gages are not the same! I made a T-handled spring remover ($12 from many supply places) to keep from launching the spring across the room. Another tool I made was a modified piece of pipe to drive the front sight/gas block on. Those were really the only special tools needed.
The rust on the kits wasn't bad but I glass beaded all the parts anyway before finishing. I black oxided the Model B (wood grip) and parkerized the G1. Aside from the tools you are also going to need some US parts, I bought mine from Falcon Arms.
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y29/Holescreek/FAL/bothFALfiinished007.jpg
I am an FAL newby and just finished my first two Apex kits above this summer. I borrowed an old AGI video on the FAL's and watched it all the way through twice. It answered a lot of the inch vs. metric questions and explained the differences in models pretty well. I was at least competant enough to take it on at that point.
The barrels Apex has are South African take-offs and are not bipod cut. You can try to locate a bipod cut barrel on Gunbroker, find someone to modify it for you, or do it yourself if you have a lathe and mill. I modified both of my barrels. The G1 uses a flash hider that locks onto a dovetail (no threads) where the Model B uses 9/16-24 RH threads IIRC. Ifyou want to know more about modifying the barrels, I posted something here: http://www.militaryfirearm.com/Forum/showthread.php?20584-Converting-a-South-African-FAL-barrel-to-a-bipod-cut-G1-barrel&highlight=barrel
Readers digest build thread here:http://www.militaryfirearm.com/Forum/showthread.php?20872-Holescreek-s-first-FAL-builds
I made a receiver wrench and borrowed a friend's barrel wrench and 7.62x51 NATO headspace gages. .308 gages are not the same! I made a T-handled spring remover ($12 from many supply places) to keep from launching the spring across the room. Another tool I made was a modified piece of pipe to drive the front sight/gas block on. Those were really the only special tools needed.
The rust on the kits wasn't bad but I glass beaded all the parts anyway before finishing. I black oxided the Model B (wood grip) and parkerized the G1. Aside from the tools you are also going to need some US parts, I bought mine from Falcon Arms.
just curious but what was the end cost for you on the 2 builds?
Roughly $720 on the model B (the kit cost $250), $670 on the G1 (kit was $200). Not a precise number as I estimated $100 for US parts on each. Being able to do the barrel conversions and grind the locking shoulders to size saved a lot of money. The receivers were from a group buy on the FAL files from Entreprise - a mistake I'll never make again. If you are an FALfiles member both Coonan and DSA will give you a discount on theirs. These receivers were custom Type 1's with correct markings and serial numbered to match the kits. At the time, Entreprise was the only ones that were doing custom numbers. The receivers were $320 each.
12/18/2011 12:28:58 AM
In my opinion, the best value in a kit from a vendor is the Argentine kits at SARCO. These kits are from brand new rifles that had to be parted out to comply with some new BS export law in Argentina. I bought one recently and I was shocked at the quality of the parts and even more shocked at the performance of the rifle that I built from the kit. It is outstanding in every way.
I know that you can get other kits for less money. But they are very used and in some cases, used up. You can't get better than brand new and made by an outstanding arms makers under license from FN.
In a year you won't miss the extra money, but you will be very glad that you spent it.
ETA: I forgot about the trigger pull on the kit that I bought. It was horrible. I have been building and modifying F A Ls for about 8 years and have learned a few tricks about making reasonable triggers on these rifles. This Argentine now has a reasonable trigger, but I wouldn't brag on it much.
http://e-sarcoinc.com/search.aspx?find=fal255
I know that you can get other kits for less money. But they are very used and in some cases, used up. You can't get better than brand new and made by an outstanding arms makers under license from FN.
In a year you won't miss the extra money, but you will be very glad that you spent it.
ETA: I forgot about the trigger pull on the kit that I bought. It was horrible. I have been building and modifying F A Ls for about 8 years and have learned a few tricks about making reasonable triggers on these rifles. This Argentine now has a reasonable trigger, but I wouldn't brag on it much.
http://e-sarcoinc.com/search.aspx?find=fal255
