dule1977 / Dennis -- Resolved

I have a limited number of Heckler Kock MP5F parts in great shape. These are F kits complete minus the Reciever. Rare to find in this condition. Bolts and barrel show little use. Comes with a Surefire flashlight front end and a SEF Trigger pack. Price is 1650.00 shipped. Please call or email at Dtoddmg@aol.com Phone 610 543 7300 NO PM's Please

Thanks
Dennis Todd
DToddmg@aol.com
(610) 543-7300

Left for feedback. STILL WAITING ON MULTIPLE PARTS KITS THAT I PAYED FOR ON FEBRUARY 29TH AND THAT WERE PROMISED TO BE SHIPPED IN A WEEK, THEN 2 WEEKS, ETC....

Topic Moved

Moved

I'll contact Dennis.

Please clarify that the above post is about HK21 kits I have not yet received from the police, NOT the MP5 kits pictured. He did not pay for MP5 kits.

Here is a link to a cached google page of the original ad where the HK21E kits were listed in this ad. Yes as stated to the mods and the admin. this complaint is Not regarding the MP5 kits, it is regarding the HK21 kits, this info was erased by the seller from this ad.


http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:AdAxTcZySCgJ:www.ar15.com/forums/t_7_118/966406_WTS_Heckler_Koch_MP5F_Parts_Kits_Excellent_Condition___1850_00_Shipped.html+dtoddmg%40aol.com+hk21e&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

Sir my issue with the transaction is the story keeps changing every week. I first contacted you regarding these kits On Feb. 28. You stated you would be receiving the kits next week. I paid for the kits the next day and after that the story changed. The new story was you were driving down to FL for a vacation and on the way back to PA you were gonna stop by the PD (Police Dept.)and pick the kits up (demilled firearms). The story was that you were meeting a guy there that will demill the firearms for you prior to pick up). You said once back in PA on March 16 you would take pics of the kits and send them to me for final approval prior to shipping.

On March 17th I contacted you asking for the pics. The new story was that I misunderstood you and that the PD is still waiting on the form 5's to be approved by the ATF so they could ship the guns to a third party (the LE distributor) so they can demill them into parts kits (this is the first i heard of the third party and now it turns out the third party is the original buyer of the firearms from the PD and Mr. Todd bought the kits from them. Again the story changes). I asked Mr. Todd to contact the distributor that purchased the firearms from the PD and ask them when the form 5's were submitted to the ATF. About a week later he sends me a email stating the Form 5's have been approved for weeks and that the kits should be shipping any day (another change in the story since a few days before this he stated the PD was waiting on the form 5's). This was around March 25th. So ever since then, up until now I have been getting the runaround.

MR TODD, THE ATF FORM 5's HAVE BEEN APPROVED FOR OVER A MONTH NOW IF NOT LONGER ACCORDING TO YOU, IF THE PD HAS NOT SHIPPED THE FIREARMS THAT MEANS THERE HAS TO BE A ISSUE AND INSTEAD OF SITTING AND HOPING THEY WILL SHIP CAN YOU UPHOLD YOUR END OF THE DEAL AND CALL AND SEE WHAT THE ISSUE IS! IT ONLY TAKES A FEW MINUTES..... I PAYED YOU FOR THE KITS IN A TIMELY MANNER, CAN YOU PLEASE TRY TO SHIP THE KITS TO ME IN A TIMELY MANNER AS WELL?


I also forgot to mention that a liitle while after paying for these kits I received this email form MR. Todd which made me think twice about the validity of the wait for these parts kits....


Subject: Hk21e kits
From: Dennis
To: dule1977
Sent: Sun, Mar 11, 2012 8:39 pm




David,
We are out of state until Thursday. As agreed, I'll e-mail as soon as I can take photos. As an aside, I was offered quite a bit more money after we had made the deal. The barrels alone are valued at $3000.00 or more.
I guess that makes you a smart buyer.
Dennis



After this whole ordeal I am really starting to wonder if someone that submitted a better offer for these kits (after I payed for them) received them instead of me......

Below is a quick rundown of the emails I received from you with the delivery date "promises".



Below are the multiple delivery date promises you have sent me so far:





From: Dennis

To: dule1977
Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2012 5:23 AM
Subject: AR15.Com hk21e kits




d.

The kits arrive from the PD next week. I was told they are excellent condition. The price is $X000.00. each. Shall I hold one for you?

Dennis Todd

(610) 543-7300


__________________________________________________________________________________________________________



Subject: Hk21e kits
From: Dennis
To: dule1977
Sent: Sun, Mar 11, 2012 8:39 pm
Subject: Hk21e kits





David,
We are out of state until Thursday. As agreed, I'll e-mail as soon as I can take photos. As an aside, I was offered quite a bit more money after we had made the deal. The barrels alone are valued at $3000.00 or more.
I guess that makes you a smart buyer.
Dennis


_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



Subject: HK21e kits
From: Dennis
To: dule1977
Sent: Sat, Mar 17, 2012 5:56 pm
Subject: Re: hk21e kits





Dave,
The PD is still waiting for ATF approval to ship the guns for cutting. I expect to send you photos sometime next week.
Dennis





____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________





Subject: Re: HK21e kits
From: Dennis
To: dule1977
Sent: Sat, Mar 24, 2012 11:17 am





Hello David,

We should have the HK21 kits this week.

Thank you for your pateince.

Jennie Todd




_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________



Subject: HK21e kits
From: Dennis
To: dule1977
Sent: Sat, Mar 26, 2012 7:33 am



I spoke with the LE distributor this morning. He said the Form 5 s have been approved for some time, and they are waiting for delivery from the PD. I asked for a time line and he replied, "soon, any day". I'll let you know as soon as it happens.
Dennis



__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________





From: Dennis
To: dule1977
Sent: Thursday, April 5, 2012 3:41 PM
Subject: Re: HK 21 E kits

Hi,
Just wanted to update you..... We spoke with the police supply source today. They are still waiting for the kits to be shipped. The form 5's were approved sometime ago but the PD bigwigs have not yet instructed there people to ship. We will keep you posted.
Thanks for your patience.
Dennis Todd

So are dealers here allowed to sell what the don't have in their possession? I know dealers have a different set of rules and are allowed to do things that regular members can't, but..........



It doesn't have the "dealer exception" like

The rules say you are not suppose to however I was aware that Mr. Todd did not yet have the parts kits at the time I payed. I was however led to believe that he would have them soon as you can tell by his emails. What was suprising to me was that he is not even the original purchaser from the PD (which he never mentioned until later), a distributor that deals with PD's purchased them and Mr. Todd purchased the kits from them and resold them to me..... Like I said the story just keeps changing every week....

Im betting he has sold them and is just waiting for you to ask for your money back if you havn't already because he had a better offer.

You never know these days.......

While this deal has certainly taken WAY longer than what should have been expected, I doubt that Dennis has sold them to someone else. Long before he became a dealer here, he always had a good reputation, according to my familiarity with his business.

I really hope you are right.

We are not talking about a $500 transaction here, it is a $XX,000 transaction and after getting the runaround for a month and a half I felt compelled to post here. It seems to me Mr. Todd has disconnected himself from being responsible for the kits in any way. Like I said before I upheld my end of the deal, and I expect him to do the same and put in some work to find out what the problem is as to why the parts kits are not shipping. Instead he does nothing or is hoping that the parts kits will magically appear.... He misrepresented everything about this transaction from the begining, who the buyer from the PD was, to when he was getting them to who was getting them for the demill proccess ....





I have worked with quite a few FFL's that deal with police departments and a few of them warned me (from personal experience) that PD's are sometimes known to lose the ATF form 5's, or receive them and just file them away (not familiar with the ATF process). I have emailed Mr. Todd with this info and a plea to check with the PD without any reply or interest from him to check on this......

Are you requesting a refund or are you only wanting him to keep you updated on their status?

I am waiting on the parts kits that were promised the first week of March, then March 16th, etc.....


Please read my previous post as to what my epectations are from the seller which Mr. Todd has not responded to....



[/quote]


I really hope you are right.

We are not talking about a $500 transaction here, it is a $XX,000 transaction and after getting the runaround for a month and a half I felt compelled to post here. It seems to me Mr. Todd has disconnected himself from being responsible for the kits in any way. Like I said before I upheld my end of the deal, and I expect him to do the same and put in some work to find out what the problem is as to why the parts kits are not shipping. Instead he does nothing or is hoping that the parts kits will magically appear.... He misrepresented everything about this transaction from the begining, who the buyer from the PD was, to when he was getting them to who was getting them for the demill proccess ....





I have worked with quite a few FFL's that deal with police departments and a few of them warned me (from personal experience) that PD's are sometimes known to lose the ATF form 5's, or receive them and just file them away (not familiar with the ATF process). I have emailed Mr. Todd with this info and a plea to check with the PD without any reply or interest from him to check on this......

[/quote]

Well we have taken one step in the right direction. The seller has established contact with the LE distributor and the LE distr. is trying to get in contact with the PD, Still no set date for delivery but at least the seller is trying to push things along. I do appreciate it. I will update this thread as things progress.

I'm sure that this will shock you, but the EE mods and staff don't really know what rules dealers and IP's are subject to. I do know that they can BTT more often than members, they can have more ads on page 1 than members, they don't always need to post prices in ads, and I'm pretty sure that rule #13 (ad deletion) doesn't apply to them either.

So is Dennis above everyone else. Every feedback thread the seller has to post a reply and updates, this is even true for the dealers, i.e. Aim surplus on the previous thread. I Haven't seen one reply from him. So what makes him any better than any other dealer on industry partner on the board. Just because he was a good guy back then doesn't exempt him from playing by the rules like everyone else. Why does it seem like he is getting special treatment here. I have no beef with Dennis, I have bought several hard to find items from him before, but the rules should apply to everyone, dealer or not.

If I am out of line then so be it

I am a bit confused, sounds like you can wait for the guns to be cut up or get a full refund? I saw the original ad and it indicated that the parts sets were comimg available . You must be new to the NFA world and length of time it takes for transactions. In the NFA world NOTHING happens fast. As far as the story changing, does Apple give out the secrets to their I phone code? Any dealer will protect his product sources from the gun vultures? Dennis Todd is a Class 3 icon so rest assured all will turn out well. Seems like a bit of public overkill when it appears you got a smoking deal and do not like waiting for the NFA process to happen.

Obviously you didnt read all my posts as to all the different promise dates. At the time of purchase I was told they would be in in a week, and so on. My main complaint was that the FORM 5's ARE ALREADY APPROVED and have been for a while but the seller was refusing to make any effort to check on why they were not shipping. Why should I ask for a refund??? I upheld my end of the deal and I expect the same from the seller. As I said in my previous post he is finally putting in some effort into trying to get things moving and I appreciate it. As it turns out the distributor IS having problems getting the guns from the PD (their contact at the PD is MIA) and promised to contact the Chief of Police to try to get the items that they are owed (this is what I was told) , so some extra effort is/was required to get things moving...... So it has nothing to do with the NFA process.


FYI I am not new to class 3 items. Form 5's take only weeks to approve unlike transfers to civilians.....




You are not making sense with the "story changing" comment. I never asked Dennis who his supplier was......

Dennis has responded to me in private. As for special treatment, all staff can do is try to resolve the situation (mods do not handle issues involving dealers, only staff can.) If resolution does not seem possible, then we must turn the issue over to the site's owners. Staff does not have permission to sanction dealers. I sent an e-mail to the site owner who handles dealerships (Jorge Avila) for his guidance, but he has not responded.

Ahh ok, Totally understand now. Thanks for the informative reply Madness. Makes sense though, only the bosses can deal directly with the dealers. I'm pretty sure this will work out eventually.

And still waiting.....

Received a email yesterday from Dennis Todd stating I was "impatient and unreasonable" because I complained regarding the nearly 3 month wait for my parts kits that were promised to be delivered within a few weeks by Mr. Todd. This guy truly has no sense of customer service..... I was amazed that after nearly 3 months of waiting he called me impatient regarding something he promised within a few weeks....

Sounds like he's prepping you for the "I'm tired of you being impatient,so here's you money back"

It sounds like it. What Mr. Todd doesnt realize is the longer this thread stays up the more people see his deceptive business practices and lack of customer service..... I have kept it contained my experiences with him to this forum but not for long. In this day and age of the internet word does spread quickly....

I've dealt with Dennis and I believe his wife at some of the local PA gun shows and they've always been good to deal with. Carry the full line of Magpul products, lots of colt stuff, good prices, etc

What really bothers me is that this is clearly in violation of EE rule #21 "Do not post items for sale that you do not have in your possession".

dule1977, is this correct that you paid Dennis for HK21 kits that he doesn't have in possession? Are dealers exempt from rule #21? I assume there is some leeway with dealers as far as things like pre-orders.

I agree. Apparently if you pay enough, the rules don't apply to you.

The OP knew the seller didn't have the item when he ordered it. It was his choice. He could have his money back but he has decided to wait.

that is still in violation of the EE rules as they are laid out, unless dealers have an exemption

He didn't start a sale ad that I know of this deal was through other communication.

I have been told that this is a non-issue since the buyer knew before he sent the funds that the items weren't in stock, not to mention that there was no specific ad selling these non-stocked items –– only a one-line mention of them in an ad for something else. Dealers are allowed a little leeway on rule #21 anyway, due to stock changing quickly.

As for the issue being discussed in this thread, an owner of this site (Jorge Avila) is personally handling this issue, so it is out of my hands.

I knew he didnt have them but I was told I would have them within a few weeks of paying....

You need to re-read the post from the top!

The 21e kits were clearly advertised in the original ad, there was no price mentioned but they were advertised for sale. See post #9 for pic of original ad.... The seller removed the portion advertising the hk21 kits from the original ad.

Yes, I understand. But, the mention of those parts kits was an afterthought to what the ad was really selling. Either way, it has no bearing on the issue.

I agree.

This is BS if a dealer can "wait out" a buyer because the dealer realized there was more money to be made elsewhere.

I think this is exactly what is going on. As I mentioned in a previous post I cannot believe he had the nerve to call me impatient and unreasonable after waiting nearly 3 months for som ething he promised in a few weeks.

My gut instinct is that Dennis still doesn't have the kits.

Sorry I do not share the gut instict as I am only going from the facts that have unfolded so far. The fact are three moths after payment I still do not have the promised kits...... On top of that the seller is calling me IMPATIENT AND UNREASONABLE.... He hasnt even had the common courtesy to post in this thread to explain any of his actions....

Sir, you have a right to be pissed. So you have been out over $10,000 dollars for items which this dealer said would be in stock the first week of March? Wow!

Has the dealer offered to refund you money?

Yes, Dennis has offered him a full refund if he chooses not to wait for the kits.

If dule1977 feels that Dennis is hoping that he'll ask for a refund so that he can sell the kits for more money to someone else, then my advice is to be the most patient person on the planet and wait a year if necessary.

I can truly sympathize with dule1977. I know what it's like to have thousands of dollars tied up. When I bought my M16 from an out-of-state dealer, it was a year before I finally took possession of it. Hopefully this issue will be resolved soon.

Yes but you knew about the wait that was involved with buying a class 3 firearm that is out of state,

As I keep posting the kits were promised a few weeks after payment. There was no mention of a 3 month wait (see posts 10 and 11).


If Dennis was a smart business man he would want to take care of this issue ASAP as many potential customers are reading this and I am sure it will effect his business in some way on this site. I have not yet posted anything on any other shooting forums/boards but that is coming soon....

I never dreamed it would take a year. It should have been a few weeks for a Form 3 transfer from the selling dealer to my in-state dealer, then another 3-4 months for the Form 4 transfer to me. According to your earlier posts, you claim that the Form 5 for these kits has already been approved. If so, then I have no idea what the hold-up is.

The site cannot do anything on your behalf until you either have the kits or the refund in hand.



As long as he had items in stock, I'd buy from him today –– even after reading this thread. I certainly wouldn't buy anything from him that was supposedly inbound though.

Based on his attitude with this issue, I would not buy from Todd.

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