New Rules out at Swan Creek

This past Sunday I went out to Swan Creek range. I noticed several new signs posted that say “No wood”, “No Steel” and “No Wire” amongst others. The string that is in place to hold targets was , of course, already torn down so I pulled out my metal target stand and inserted my wood strips to fasten my IDPA style target to.

There were lots of shooters out that day and I was the only one with a non conforming target holder. Last season a friend got a sizable ticket for shooting his metal plates so I was slightly concerned I’d be caught and made an example of.

I called the game warden’s office Monday to inquire about my target stand and if it was acceptable to use. Spoke with a pleasant woman who was very short with me, simply asking me “what do the signs say?” She suggested I speak with Steve Bryant who I assumed was her supervisor. Of course all I got was his voice mail and when I tried again today that‘s what I got again. I was surprised when he called me back this afternoon.

I explained to him the style of target stand I was using and my questions about its use. He said that since I cared enough to call him, I was obviously not one of the folks who trashed the range. I said no, that I was one of the people who actually cleaned up other folks mess along with my own. He went on to say that although my target stand sounded OK, others would see mine; they would then use scrap wood and then leave it and then others would reuse it until there was nothing left but splinters for them to clean up. He said they would like to see people start using PVC pipe target stands. His reasoning is that if someone takes the time to go out and buy the PVC pipe that they would most likely not leave it on the range. Of course an argument could be made that my stands cost more than the PVC pipe stands but he seemed set in his ways.

I already have a PVC pipe target stand so this is not the end of the world, but it kinda sucks that I cannot use the metal stands I already have. Between the two target stands and my plate rack, I have a tidy sum wrapped up in them.

If you would like to talk with Mr. Bryant, his direct number is 256-353-2634.

I replied to this already in the other thread, but: what do your target stands look like?

One other thing: about the so-called "lady" that answered the phone: I've called or went by the SC GW's office twice in the last two years. Both times were a complete waste of time due to lack of common courtesy if not outright rudeness of that bitch(s). How they stay employed is beyond me.

I also use the target stands you are talking about. It was about a year and half ago in sept/october, out at swan creek they had a media day and the game warden was not letting anyone put a target down range unless it was 100% paper/cardboard. I didn't even have any targets I was just shooting into the back drop dirt.

Anyway a couple of guys got out their metal stands that are held up with 1x2 wood on each side with cardboard in the middle, ie the stands very similiar to what is sold at the target barn, may have been the same.

So, the game warden finally came to his senses and realized that they were only shooting cardboard.

The irony was that the 100 yard range was taken up by "vendors" to allow media people to shoot and they had metal targets set up.

Also the clothes line is tied to METAL poles.

I think I'll give them a call and ask about it and mention the target barn link.

BTW just last month had a game warden out at Skyline and we had a few of the target barn stands set up and he didn't say a word.

EDIT to add in:
The reason I was told why they didn't want any wood, metal, or plastic was because the splinters caused 4-5 flat tires on their mowers.

Also just called and left a message, asking him what the rules are on about targets, Since the metal stand is just the base of the stand but the "target" is card board what the issue is? Basically our target stands are removed with out leaving any trash.

Well, he called me back.

He says no metal down range. I pointed out that the clothes lines are metal poles, and he said yes but we installed them. I explained to him that the target stands we use are only used for holding the target. They will not make exceptions for the approved IDPA targets.

He said they have a rule no shooting in the ground. So I pointed out to him that you will have people shooting cardboard boxes are going to be shooting into the ground. Also people that bring out boxes are not going to take them home with them, as in they will be leaving trash out there. I told him that the IDPA approved targets would prevent shooting into the ground and would be more safe.

Again their issue is their equipment is being caused damage from metal and plastic splinters left on the range. Bottom line is trying to argue with an idiot you will loose because they will just beat you down to their level!!!

Might have to go over his head on this one.

unfortunately, it's their range and whatever rules they come up with have to be followed. The $110 a year it costs for membership to the two ranges i belong to are well worth not having to deal with BS rules, trashed ranges and armchair commando's sweeping the range.

Technically, it is not "their" range. It is "our" range in that it is paid for by our taxes and license fees.

Like any other government run entity we should/could be able to come up with new rules if going through the correct channels.

Unfortunately that hasn't worked for anything lately, so I wouldn't see it happening here either.

What's an " armchair commando"?

As pointed out this is a public range that receives funds from the state from hunting licenses paid etc.....

The issue is that Mr. Bryant is making up his own rules.
Here is the link specifically to the "Range" rules posted online: http://outdooralabama.com/hunting/education/shooting-ranges/swancreekrange.cfm

There are some other rules covered under the general WMA about ranges, mainly on who can use the range. I have seen at swan creek a rule about no metal targets paper only.

See that is the issue, I am shooting at a Paper only target, however the Target stand has a metal base and uses two 1"x2" furing pieces of wood to hold up the cardboard that the paper target is attached to. The design of these target stands are used at IDPA & NRA matches, etc... Many police ranges use these type of stands etc.... Mainly because they are SAFE. Because if you have a stand set up at 10' in front of you, the bullets will be in line to directly impact the berm behind the target, one of the golden rules of firearm safety is knowing your target and what is behind it.

Mr. Bryant has implied that by people using these stands(ie responsible shooters) it would cause bad behavior from other shooters (thinking they could use wood targets etc...) Also Mr. Bryant supports unsafe shooting by saying people should use carboard boxes to shoot closer, ie, shooting into the ground causing bullets to ricochets and not impact the berm/backstop.

I'm not 100% sure but I remember a year and half ago they had cleaned the range up, it was almost spotless, was cleaned up for a media event. Anyway one of the guys in a wildlife uniform was there and was telling people that the entire target and stand had to be 100% paper. I remember seeing some guys getting stands out like the ones described and he eventually at that point allowed them. I'm guessing the person from that day and Mr. Bryant are the same moron.

Today I'm going to be calling Mr. Ron Eakes, Supervising Wildlife Biologist of the Swan Creek area and discuss this with him and find out how to file a formal complaint against Mr. Bryant.

So I called and Mr. Bryant's Supervisor (Judd Easterwood) is out of the office until the 27th. After talking to the chief of the enforcement section he recommended I talk to Mr. Ray Meltzer at the Montgomery Office who had worked at the the Swan Creek office in the past.

So after talking to Mr. Meltzer, He was a lot more reasonable and even went to the website that has an example of the target and target stand. He is going to bring this up at the supervisors meeting this coming Monday to address this issue. He also mentioned they try to keep the rules for all shooting ranges standarized as much as possible.

Go go Shermanator!

Thanks Sherm. I was there last Saturday shooting and did not read any of the posted signs as I had been there 100's of times. I use IDPA targets and the stands that you see at every match and never would have dreamed they would be an issue.

I really wish there was a really nice range close to Limestone county. I grew up shooting at Swan Creek but I absolutely hate going there now because of all the bs wrapped around it. But the thoughts of having to drive to west hell just to shoot totally sucks.

Well had a message today from Mr. Bryant to call him, so I did, turned out he was just calling me from the message I left last week. I had already talked to him from that message before.

Anyway I talked with Mr. Metzler a few minutes ago. During the supervisors meeting this past monday, he said as long as common sense is used there shouldn't be an issue. However Mr. Bryant is the one that lacks CS. He also mentioned about going by the Ranger Station there for Swan Creek and letting Mr. Bryant and Mr. Judd Easterwood look at them. He said he was going to have Mr. Bryant call me, but I told him, I don't wish to talk to him anymore, but I will talk to Mr. Easterwood (he is Mr. Bryant's supervisor).

I told Mr. Metzler that if I need to, I have about a dozen people I can have call him about this issue. (very true between online here and 4 shooters I know personally outside the forums). He was like no no no, we'll get it handled.

I'll keep you informed when I hear back from them again.

For now anyone that lives closer to the swan creek range that has one of these targets take it by them and let them look at it. Especially the enforcement officers that will probably be thinking WOW these are great.

Wow, lots of changes at swan creek. i havent been out there in a couple years now that i have my own range in my back yard. i went there for almost 20 years and never a game warden there. on weekdays when the 25 yr range was empty , my buddy and i used to run AR drills in the grass between the concrete and burm.

Thanks Sherman...If you need me to, I can bring my targets stands to show the warden..

Yes, Thanks Sherman. Is there a link to the type of stands that are mentioned here and how to build one? (sorry if it has already been posted, I didn't check )

Yes please do that if you live closer to Swan Creek. I have been going ot Skyline while it is the the same distance from my house as Swan Creek, one of my shooting buddies lives closer to Skyline.




You can order them here: Target Barn Or if you know someone that welds you can have them made for about $9 each in materials. A guy I work with made me 12 stands and I gave him $5 for labor on each one so it was about $14 per each one. FYI, i'm not in the business of selling these, so people I know that wanted a couple I just had them pay me the cost or in one case for a friend below what I paid for them.

Orion..There's a local guy named Steve who is not an AR15.com member but is on Shootability.net He goes by Lefty on that forum. He makes and sells steel stands. He usually has some to sell when he goes out to SC. He usually has them displayed in front of his red Jeep when he is there.

Alternatively, if you want to PM your phone number to me, I'd be happy to pass it along to him.

Vic

I'm on Shootability as well. If it is decided that the stands are kosher I will contact Lefty there or you via PM here......... Thanks for the tip.

I made it out there yesterday and noticed the new signs above the shooting stations. Other than that it seems the same.

I haven't been out to Swan Creek in almost a year. Last time, my son and I collected two garbage bags of scrap off the range and burned it in the burn barrels.

The pistol range always seems to be in the worst condition.

I, too, have spoken with that woman at the game warden's office. She really needs to be transferred to the DMV - she'll fit right in.

Send her to the one on Church street in Huntsville. That's the worst place I have ever been to get a drivers license.

No shit.... perfect fit for her. I'll drive out to Athens (with their one lonely clerk) before I go to Church Street again.

hey with the new ID law coming into effect we'll all have a stop by that office sometime soon.....

I sat for 4 3/4 hours in Fort Payne yesterday to get an Alabama license.ONE lady to run the whole office.She was busy,to say the least.

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