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Helena style gun ban coming to Billings?
10/5/2011 10:32:29 AM
What ever happened with the challenges to Helena's gun ban? I was just told (rumor) that Billings is going to try to encact similiar regulations. Has anybody heard anything?
10/5/2011 4:11:44 PM
Wait...there's a gun ban in Helena? 
Oooops
Oooops
10/6/2011 7:47:30 AM
bump for the morning
10/6/2011 8:13:05 AM
Hunh, I have not heard anything about this. What would the gun ban entail? No concealed weapons?
10/6/2011 9:15:17 AM
Same as Helena....no carry in public.
IM sent Dan
IM sent Dan
10/6/2011 10:04:42 AM
You need to be a lot more specific (yeah, I know it is a rumor). There is no ban in Helena that I am aware of, as State Law supersedes that sort of ban anyway. There is a law on the books that says that you must inform an LEO if you are stopped and carrying (concealed or not). Is this ban something that is new?? Open Carry was affirmed by the state a couple of years ago, specifically because of harassment in Billings and a few other places.
Now there is a new one set to be voted on, their Distracted ordinance. You cannot operate a cell phone or radio while operating a vehicle (or bicycle), even hands free.
-Corn
Now there is a new one set to be voted on, their Distracted ordinance. You cannot operate a cell phone or radio while operating a vehicle (or bicycle), even hands free.
-Corn
10/6/2011 12:18:34 PM
The City of Helena has an ordinance restricting carrying of loaded firearms within city limits.
Tthe ordinance conflicts with MCA and MT constitutional rights.
The City of Helena is well aware that it is infringing on the rights of its inhabitants.
The City of Helena doesn't care.
...and that is why I avoid Helena if at all possible.
Tthe ordinance conflicts with MCA and MT constitutional rights.
The City of Helena is well aware that it is infringing on the rights of its inhabitants.
The City of Helena doesn't care.
...and that is why I avoid Helena if at all possible.
10/6/2011 1:05:23 PM
Originally Posted By Banger:
The City of Helena has an ordinance restricting carrying of loaded firearms within city limits.
Tthe ordinance conflicts with MCA and MT constitutional rights.
The City of Helena is well aware that it is infringing on the rights of its inhabitants.
The City of Helena doesn't care.
...and that is why I avoid Helena if at all possible.
The City of Helena has an ordinance restricting carrying of loaded firearms within city limits.
Tthe ordinance conflicts with MCA and MT constitutional rights.
The City of Helena is well aware that it is infringing on the rights of its inhabitants.
The City of Helena doesn't care.
...and that is why I avoid Helena if at all possible.
This is the one. 5-1-32. However, reading it, I'm not sure it affects permit holders....but, having to declare does.
What a cluster.10/6/2011 4:14:20 PM
I have seen this discussion before over on OCDO. First, let us get the complete code out there so we know what we are looking at.. No, I am not a lawyer and I stayed at a Marriott last night. :)
Montana Annotated Code:
45-8-351. Restriction on local government regulation of firearms. (1) Except as provided in subsection (2), no county, city, town, consolidated local government, or other local government unit may prohibit, register, tax, license, or regulate the purchase, sale or other transfer (including delay in purchase, sale, or other transfer), ownership, possession, transportation, use, or unconcealed carrying of any weapon, including a rifle, shotgun, handgun, or concealed handgun.
(2) (a) For public safety purposes, a city or town may regulate the discharge of rifles, shotguns, and handguns. A county, city, town, consolidated local government, or other local government unit has power to prevent and suppress the carrying of concealed or unconcealed weapons to a public assembly, publicly owned building, park under its jurisdiction, or school, and the possession of firearms by convicted felons, adjudicated mental incompetents, illegal aliens, and minors.
Helena City Code:
5-1-32: POSSESSION OF FIREARMS PROHIBITED; EXCEPTIONS:
A. Prohibition: It shall be unlawful, and a misdemeanor, for any person, other than a peace officer in the discharge of his duties, or a citizen in the protection of his life or that of his family or his property, or any person authorized by law: (Ord. 2719, 9-26-1994)
1. To carry on or about his person, in any place open to the public, any loaded or concealed firearm, rifle, airgun or pistol within the limits of this city, or to shoot any airgun, rifle, pistol, sling shot or bow and arrow within the limits of this city, except in those areas designated as indoor or outdoor rifle, pistol, shotgun or archery ranges as designated and approved by the city manager. (Ord. 2742, 6-5-1995)
2. To possess any firearm, airgun or pistol at a public assembly, in a city park, school, or in any publicly owned building, with the specific exceptions of:
a. Legitimate displays of unloaded firearms at shows or other public occasions by collectors and others; and
b. Persons participating in hunter or gun safety classes sanctioned by the department of fish, wildlife and parks and authorized by the city or school. (Ord. 2447, 7-27-1987)
B. Exceptions: Nothing in this chapter shall apply to a person in actual service in the military of the United States or the state, as a law enforcement officer or person summoned to his aid, nor to a revenue or other civil officer engaged in the discharge of his official duties, nor carrying of arms in one's premises or place of business, or where a concealed weapons permit has been granted to bear, concealed or otherwise, a pistol or revolver during the time of such permission. (Ord. 2670, 4-26-1993; amd. Ord. 2742, 6-5-1995)
Ok, so it is badly worded, but in part A of the Helena code, you see where they are saying if you are lawfully able to carry (i.e. not a criminal), then the rest of the code does not apply. In section B, it is reiterated again. If the code did apply, it would be preempted by the Montana code above it. Would I like to see the code go? Absolutely would I like to see it go. Fat chance of that happening in the city though. I am not even sure a suit would get it out of there, but they could make the language a bit better.
-Corn
ETA.. Goldeneye.. Ravendal(sp?) brought it up at a council meeting earlier this year and was quashed. It made the papers in Helena at least, with a bunch of bad information, and that was that. I have not seen a thing since, so if anything is going on, I don't know about it. Then I don't even live in Helena anyway.
Montana Annotated Code:
45-8-351. Restriction on local government regulation of firearms. (1) Except as provided in subsection (2), no county, city, town, consolidated local government, or other local government unit may prohibit, register, tax, license, or regulate the purchase, sale or other transfer (including delay in purchase, sale, or other transfer), ownership, possession, transportation, use, or unconcealed carrying of any weapon, including a rifle, shotgun, handgun, or concealed handgun.
(2) (a) For public safety purposes, a city or town may regulate the discharge of rifles, shotguns, and handguns. A county, city, town, consolidated local government, or other local government unit has power to prevent and suppress the carrying of concealed or unconcealed weapons to a public assembly, publicly owned building, park under its jurisdiction, or school, and the possession of firearms by convicted felons, adjudicated mental incompetents, illegal aliens, and minors.
Helena City Code:
5-1-32: POSSESSION OF FIREARMS PROHIBITED; EXCEPTIONS:
A. Prohibition: It shall be unlawful, and a misdemeanor, for any person, other than a peace officer in the discharge of his duties, or a citizen in the protection of his life or that of his family or his property, or any person authorized by law: (Ord. 2719, 9-26-1994)
1. To carry on or about his person, in any place open to the public, any loaded or concealed firearm, rifle, airgun or pistol within the limits of this city, or to shoot any airgun, rifle, pistol, sling shot or bow and arrow within the limits of this city, except in those areas designated as indoor or outdoor rifle, pistol, shotgun or archery ranges as designated and approved by the city manager. (Ord. 2742, 6-5-1995)
2. To possess any firearm, airgun or pistol at a public assembly, in a city park, school, or in any publicly owned building, with the specific exceptions of:
a. Legitimate displays of unloaded firearms at shows or other public occasions by collectors and others; and
b. Persons participating in hunter or gun safety classes sanctioned by the department of fish, wildlife and parks and authorized by the city or school. (Ord. 2447, 7-27-1987)
B. Exceptions: Nothing in this chapter shall apply to a person in actual service in the military of the United States or the state, as a law enforcement officer or person summoned to his aid, nor to a revenue or other civil officer engaged in the discharge of his official duties, nor carrying of arms in one's premises or place of business, or where a concealed weapons permit has been granted to bear, concealed or otherwise, a pistol or revolver during the time of such permission. (Ord. 2670, 4-26-1993; amd. Ord. 2742, 6-5-1995)
Ok, so it is badly worded, but in part A of the Helena code, you see where they are saying if you are lawfully able to carry (i.e. not a criminal), then the rest of the code does not apply. In section B, it is reiterated again. If the code did apply, it would be preempted by the Montana code above it. Would I like to see the code go? Absolutely would I like to see it go. Fat chance of that happening in the city though. I am not even sure a suit would get it out of there, but they could make the language a bit better.
-Corn
ETA.. Goldeneye.. Ravendal(sp?) brought it up at a council meeting earlier this year and was quashed. It made the papers in Helena at least, with a bunch of bad information, and that was that. I have not seen a thing since, so if anything is going on, I don't know about it. Then I don't even live in Helena anyway.
10/6/2011 10:33:09 PM
Originally Posted By Cornsweat:
I have seen this discussion before over on OCDO. First, let us get the complete code out there so we know what we are looking at.. No, I am not a lawyer and I stayed at a Marriott last night. :)
Montana Annotated Code:
45-8-351. Restriction on local government regulation of firearms. (1) Except as provided in subsection (2), no county, city, town, consolidated local government, or other local government unit may prohibit, register, tax, license, or regulate the purchase, sale or other transfer (including delay in purchase, sale, or other transfer), ownership, possession, transportation, use, or unconcealed carrying of any weapon, including a rifle, shotgun, handgun, or concealed handgun.
(2) (a) For public safety purposes, a city or town may regulate the discharge of rifles, shotguns, and handguns. A county, city, town, consolidated local government, or other local government unit has power to prevent and suppress the carrying of concealed or unconcealed weapons to a public assembly, publicly owned building, park under its jurisdiction, or school, and the possession of firearms by convicted felons, adjudicated mental incompetents, illegal aliens, and minors.
Helena City Code:
5-1-32: POSSESSION OF FIREARMS PROHIBITED; EXCEPTIONS:
A. Prohibition: It shall be unlawful, and a misdemeanor, for any person, other than a peace officer in the discharge of his duties, or a citizen in the protection of his life or that of his family or his property, or any person authorized by law: (Ord. 2719, 9-26-1994)
1. To carry on or about his person, in any place open to the public, any loaded or concealed firearm, rifle, airgun or pistol within the limits of this city, or to shoot any airgun, rifle, pistol, sling shot or bow and arrow within the limits of this city, except in those areas designated as indoor or outdoor rifle, pistol, shotgun or archery ranges as designated and approved by the city manager. (Ord. 2742, 6-5-1995)
2. To possess any firearm, airgun or pistol at a public assembly, in a city park, school, or in any publicly owned building, with the specific exceptions of:
a. Legitimate displays of unloaded firearms at shows or other public occasions by collectors and others; and
b. Persons participating in hunter or gun safety classes sanctioned by the department of fish, wildlife and parks and authorized by the city or school. (Ord. 2447, 7-27-1987)
B. Exceptions: Nothing in this chapter shall apply to a person in actual service in the military of the United States or the state, as a law enforcement officer or person summoned to his aid, nor to a revenue or other civil officer engaged in the discharge of his official duties, nor carrying of arms in one's premises or place of business, or where a concealed weapons permit has been granted to bear, concealed or otherwise, a pistol or revolver during the time of such permission. (Ord. 2670, 4-26-1993; amd. Ord. 2742, 6-5-1995)
Ok, so it is badly worded, but in part A of the Helena code, you see where they are saying if you are lawfully able to carry (i.e. not a criminal), then the rest of the code does not apply. In section B, it is reiterated again. If the code did apply, it would be preempted by the Montana code above it. Would I like to see the code go? Absolutely would I like to see it go. Fat chance of that happening in the city though. I am not even sure a suit would get it out of there, but they could make the language a bit better.
-Corn
ETA.. Goldeneye.. Ravendal(sp?) brought it up at a council meeting earlier this year and was quashed. It made the papers in Helena at least, with a bunch of bad information, and that was that. I have not seen a thing since, so if anything is going on, I don't know about it. Then I don't even live in Helena anyway.
I have seen this discussion before over on OCDO. First, let us get the complete code out there so we know what we are looking at.. No, I am not a lawyer and I stayed at a Marriott last night. :)
Montana Annotated Code:
45-8-351. Restriction on local government regulation of firearms. (1) Except as provided in subsection (2), no county, city, town, consolidated local government, or other local government unit may prohibit, register, tax, license, or regulate the purchase, sale or other transfer (including delay in purchase, sale, or other transfer), ownership, possession, transportation, use, or unconcealed carrying of any weapon, including a rifle, shotgun, handgun, or concealed handgun.
(2) (a) For public safety purposes, a city or town may regulate the discharge of rifles, shotguns, and handguns. A county, city, town, consolidated local government, or other local government unit has power to prevent and suppress the carrying of concealed or unconcealed weapons to a public assembly, publicly owned building, park under its jurisdiction, or school, and the possession of firearms by convicted felons, adjudicated mental incompetents, illegal aliens, and minors.
Helena City Code:
5-1-32: POSSESSION OF FIREARMS PROHIBITED; EXCEPTIONS:
A. Prohibition: It shall be unlawful, and a misdemeanor, for any person, other than a peace officer in the discharge of his duties, or a citizen in the protection of his life or that of his family or his property, or any person authorized by law: (Ord. 2719, 9-26-1994)
1. To carry on or about his person, in any place open to the public, any loaded or concealed firearm, rifle, airgun or pistol within the limits of this city, or to shoot any airgun, rifle, pistol, sling shot or bow and arrow within the limits of this city, except in those areas designated as indoor or outdoor rifle, pistol, shotgun or archery ranges as designated and approved by the city manager. (Ord. 2742, 6-5-1995)
2. To possess any firearm, airgun or pistol at a public assembly, in a city park, school, or in any publicly owned building, with the specific exceptions of:
a. Legitimate displays of unloaded firearms at shows or other public occasions by collectors and others; and
b. Persons participating in hunter or gun safety classes sanctioned by the department of fish, wildlife and parks and authorized by the city or school. (Ord. 2447, 7-27-1987)
B. Exceptions: Nothing in this chapter shall apply to a person in actual service in the military of the United States or the state, as a law enforcement officer or person summoned to his aid, nor to a revenue or other civil officer engaged in the discharge of his official duties, nor carrying of arms in one's premises or place of business, or where a concealed weapons permit has been granted to bear, concealed or otherwise, a pistol or revolver during the time of such permission. (Ord. 2670, 4-26-1993; amd. Ord. 2742, 6-5-1995)
Ok, so it is badly worded, but in part A of the Helena code, you see where they are saying if you are lawfully able to carry (i.e. not a criminal), then the rest of the code does not apply. In section B, it is reiterated again. If the code did apply, it would be preempted by the Montana code above it. Would I like to see the code go? Absolutely would I like to see it go. Fat chance of that happening in the city though. I am not even sure a suit would get it out of there, but they could make the language a bit better.
-Corn
ETA.. Goldeneye.. Ravendal(sp?) brought it up at a council meeting earlier this year and was quashed. It made the papers in Helena at least, with a bunch of bad information, and that was that. I have not seen a thing since, so if anything is going on, I don't know about it. Then I don't even live in Helena anyway.
It should be preempted by the MT code, but my understanding is that it is a $500 misdemeanor. dunno, I don't live there either
