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Whats The Most Important Shot In A Gunfight?
9/8/2010 12:09:03 AM
2 questions:
1. What do you believe is the most important shot fired in a gun fight and why?
2. What is your primary carry gun and why?
9/8/2010 12:25:03 AM
1: Hit/ kill shot
2: .38 s&w
Because only the hits count and its easy to conceal carry and still pack a punch.
2: .38 s&w
Because only the hits count and its easy to conceal carry and still pack a punch.
9/8/2010 12:37:49 AM
Any hits that aren't on you.
Glock 19.
Plenty of capacity, accurate and ball bat reliable. Also concealable
Glock 19.
Plenty of capacity, accurate and ball bat reliable. Also concealable
9/8/2010 1:25:53 AM
First shot. Average police gunfight lasts about 2.5 seconds and is decided with less than 3 shots IIRC.
You can't miss fast enough to win a gunfight.
You can't miss fast enough to win a gunfight.
9/8/2010 5:07:45 AM
The last shot fired from my attacker - Meaning I stopped the threat
Sig 229 - 40 cal
*forgot to say why*
I am proficient with it and I like the sights (I need to get some XS sights for my Glock) I like the 40 caliber and It fits my hand better then my Glock. I just all around prefer that pistol over my others.
Sig 229 - 40 cal
*forgot to say why*
I am proficient with it and I like the sights (I need to get some XS sights for my Glock) I like the 40 caliber and It fits my hand better then my Glock. I just all around prefer that pistol over my others.
9/8/2010 7:02:01 PM
Originally Posted By Britbiker:
2 questions:
1. What do you believe is the most important shot fired in a gun fight and why?
The most important shot fired is the LAST shot needed to end the fight. If one was enough, great, but if number sixteen ends it, great also- I win. Ensure you get the first hit into central nervous system, hopefully multiple game ending hits, before the bad guy. Ensure you are the only one getting hits and make darn sure you are the winner.
2. What is your primary carry gun and why?
Beretta 92FS loaded with Winchester 9mm 147gr Ranger, its what I am told to carry.
2 questions:
1. What do you believe is the most important shot fired in a gun fight and why?
The most important shot fired is the LAST shot needed to end the fight. If one was enough, great, but if number sixteen ends it, great also- I win. Ensure you get the first hit into central nervous system, hopefully multiple game ending hits, before the bad guy. Ensure you are the only one getting hits and make darn sure you are the winner.
2. What is your primary carry gun and why?
Beretta 92FS loaded with Winchester 9mm 147gr Ranger, its what I am told to carry.
9/8/2010 7:43:53 PM
Whatever shots occur from the first sight picture. The sooner these occur the better, it doesn't have to be a true sight picture if distances are tight. By the time you're reacquiring sight pictures, the fight has changed.
It has to be something with me, and it has to be something I can confidently draw, point, and fire.
A smaller caliber gun that can be accurately fired rapidly is in no way inferiour to a larger caliber gun that cannot. That said, a 5" 1911 is still my choice because that weapon system is the one I can draw and point most naturally.
It has to be something with me, and it has to be something I can confidently draw, point, and fire.
A smaller caliber gun that can be accurately fired rapidly is in no way inferiour to a larger caliber gun that cannot. That said, a 5" 1911 is still my choice because that weapon system is the one I can draw and point most naturally.
9/8/2010 8:13:19 PM
1) The first one - You better make it the one that counts, otherwise it's gonna be a long day...
2) Kimber Warrior 1911 - I love it, the first "high-end firearm" I have owned (aside from the Benelli M4S90); I love how well it shoots and how perfect it fits in my hand (Thanks from the bottom of my heart, Mr. Colt)
/thread.
2) Kimber Warrior 1911 - I love it, the first "high-end firearm" I have owned (aside from the Benelli M4S90); I love how well it shoots and how perfect it fits in my hand (Thanks from the bottom of my heart, Mr. Colt)
/thread.
9/8/2010 8:53:25 PM
I think every shot I fire is equally important. Each one has the ability to end and/or dramatically change a life.
I carry a Glock 19 because it's reliable, accurate, and I'm proficient with it. It is the handgun I'd want to have if I had to use one. I feel that modern 9mm SD ammo will get the job done if I do my part.
I carry a Glock 19 because it's reliable, accurate, and I'm proficient with it. It is the handgun I'd want to have if I had to use one. I feel that modern 9mm SD ammo will get the job done if I do my part.
9/8/2010 8:59:07 PM
The last one.
It is the shot that ends it whether it is the first shot, the fifth shot or the twentieth shot.
And I am not old enough to carry yet.
ETA: a308garand beat me to it.
It is the shot that ends it whether it is the first shot, the fifth shot or the twentieth shot.
And I am not old enough to carry yet.
ETA: a308garand beat me to it.
9/9/2010 10:41:56 PM
2 questions:
1. What do you believe is the most important shot fired in a gun fight and why?
2. What is your primary carry gun and why?
Hopefully the questions poised have made you think and evaluate both. My thoughts and what we teach, is based on MY and my other instructor experience.
First of all you have to decide for yourself what is “the most important shot” in you own opinion. Yes, putting metal on meat, yes every shot (because your responsible for them all), yes the last shot fired because it means the fight is over, yes the one that stops the threat……yes….yes…yes…..they all make sense and are right in there own single dimensional way.
BUT…………….
The first round YOU fire will ultimately decide how the next imminent few moments play out. What I mean by that is regardless to what your adversary is or has done, your ability to quickly put YOUR first round onto said adversaries body is paramount. If you miss with your first round you may not get to fire any more EVER!.
Now before I get into this I want to clarify from whence this post comes. Any of you that have taken our advanced training classes will recall our theory about “combat accuracy” which is that in our opinion, any shot fired that changes the dynamics of the fight in your favor is a “combat accurate” shot. So if you first shot hits Bad Guy in the big toe and makes Bad Guy hesitate in shooting back, fall over, hop around like a Nancy boy etc etc, it has therefore changed his actions in my favor and allowed me time to make another shot, move or whatever I feel I need to do…In that case that is a good shot and in the REAL world IT IS.
But the need for speed, MUST be balanced with accuracy and sound tactics!! Simply working on the theory that “I don’t need to be THAT accurate, as long as I hit the paper is fine”……IS WRONG. It’s all about accuracy. If you put every round you fire EXACTLY where you want it, your chances of survival dramatically increase. Being the fastest in the west don’t mean diddly if you can not hit the target (boot hill is full of them)
We must also remember that it is highly unlikely that your adversary will stand nice and still for you (like a paper target will) while you take multiple shots at him. He will MOST likely be moving in an attempt to not get shot and also with the goal of doing YOU harm. I don’t care (nor will he) how fast you can shoot your 2nd or 3rd or 14th round. None of those shots will matter if you can not get combat accurate with your FIRST round, because he will be shooting at you too. For those that have not been shot at before…..it isn’t like the range……you WILL move or freeze, the prior being MOST beneficial.
So in answer to the posed questions I would suggest 1st round you fire. Regardless to who shoots first, because you can not effect where your adversaries first shot goes, you can only effect where YOURS go.
This being said you might want to focus most of your training from the concealed draw, firing YOUR FIRST shot at a moving target, while YOUR moving. Why? Coz as I said before, if you don’t master that, in the real world you might not get any more shots off…EVER.
Now why did I ask about your carry gun?
Because if we take the above to be true and agree that your first shot is the most important in a fight, then having a trigger that is the same in pull and length regardless to whether its your 1st or 17th is important. If you have a single action only, a safe action only or a double action only handgun then you will have this consistency. If you have a double action / single action gun such as a Berretta 92, Storm, Sig, etc then your trigger is dramatically different from first shot (double action) and your remaining shots (single action) this tends to make the shooter train (practice at the range) shooting the majority of his shots in single action mode (with the hammer cocked) which is counter effective. You should train the majority of you shots from the double action (hammer down) condition.
Thoughts?
www.floridafirearmstraining.com
1. What do you believe is the most important shot fired in a gun fight and why?
2. What is your primary carry gun and why?
Hopefully the questions poised have made you think and evaluate both. My thoughts and what we teach, is based on MY and my other instructor experience.
First of all you have to decide for yourself what is “the most important shot” in you own opinion. Yes, putting metal on meat, yes every shot (because your responsible for them all), yes the last shot fired because it means the fight is over, yes the one that stops the threat……yes….yes…yes…..they all make sense and are right in there own single dimensional way.
BUT…………….
The first round YOU fire will ultimately decide how the next imminent few moments play out. What I mean by that is regardless to what your adversary is or has done, your ability to quickly put YOUR first round onto said adversaries body is paramount. If you miss with your first round you may not get to fire any more EVER!.
Now before I get into this I want to clarify from whence this post comes. Any of you that have taken our advanced training classes will recall our theory about “combat accuracy” which is that in our opinion, any shot fired that changes the dynamics of the fight in your favor is a “combat accurate” shot. So if you first shot hits Bad Guy in the big toe and makes Bad Guy hesitate in shooting back, fall over, hop around like a Nancy boy etc etc, it has therefore changed his actions in my favor and allowed me time to make another shot, move or whatever I feel I need to do…In that case that is a good shot and in the REAL world IT IS.
But the need for speed, MUST be balanced with accuracy and sound tactics!! Simply working on the theory that “I don’t need to be THAT accurate, as long as I hit the paper is fine”……IS WRONG. It’s all about accuracy. If you put every round you fire EXACTLY where you want it, your chances of survival dramatically increase. Being the fastest in the west don’t mean diddly if you can not hit the target (boot hill is full of them)
We must also remember that it is highly unlikely that your adversary will stand nice and still for you (like a paper target will) while you take multiple shots at him. He will MOST likely be moving in an attempt to not get shot and also with the goal of doing YOU harm. I don’t care (nor will he) how fast you can shoot your 2nd or 3rd or 14th round. None of those shots will matter if you can not get combat accurate with your FIRST round, because he will be shooting at you too. For those that have not been shot at before…..it isn’t like the range……you WILL move or freeze, the prior being MOST beneficial.
So in answer to the posed questions I would suggest 1st round you fire. Regardless to who shoots first, because you can not effect where your adversaries first shot goes, you can only effect where YOURS go.
This being said you might want to focus most of your training from the concealed draw, firing YOUR FIRST shot at a moving target, while YOUR moving. Why? Coz as I said before, if you don’t master that, in the real world you might not get any more shots off…EVER.
Now why did I ask about your carry gun?
Because if we take the above to be true and agree that your first shot is the most important in a fight, then having a trigger that is the same in pull and length regardless to whether its your 1st or 17th is important. If you have a single action only, a safe action only or a double action only handgun then you will have this consistency. If you have a double action / single action gun such as a Berretta 92, Storm, Sig, etc then your trigger is dramatically different from first shot (double action) and your remaining shots (single action) this tends to make the shooter train (practice at the range) shooting the majority of his shots in single action mode (with the hammer cocked) which is counter effective. You should train the majority of you shots from the double action (hammer down) condition.
Thoughts?
www.floridafirearmstraining.com
9/10/2010 4:13:25 AM
Originally Posted By Britbiker:
2 questions:
1. What do you believe is the most important shot fired in a gun fight and why?
2. What is your primary carry gun and why?
Hopefully the questions poised have made you think and evaluate both. My thoughts and what we teach, is based on MY and my other instructor experience.
First of all you have to decide for yourself what is “the most important shot” in you own opinion. Yes, putting metal on meat, yes every shot (because your responsible for them all), yes the last shot fired because it means the fight is over, yes the one that stops the threat……yes….yes…yes…..they all make sense and are right in there own single dimensional way.
BUT…………….
The first round YOU fire will ultimately decide how the next imminent few moments play out. What I mean by that is regardless to what your adversary is or has done, your ability to quickly put YOUR first round onto said adversaries body is paramount. If you miss with your first round you may not get to fire any more EVER!.
Now before I get into this I want to clarify from whence this post comes. Any of you that have taken our advanced training classes will recall our theory about “combat accuracy” which is that in our opinion, any shot fired that changes the dynamics of the fight in your favor is a “combat accurate” shot. So if you first shot hits Bad Guy in the big toe and makes Bad Guy hesitate in shooting back, fall over, hop around like a Nancy boy etc etc, it has therefore changed his actions in my favor and allowed me time to make another shot, move or whatever I feel I need to do…In that case that is a good shot and in the REAL world IT IS.
But the need for speed, MUST be balanced with accuracy and sound tactics!! Simply working on the theory that “I don’t need to be THAT accurate, as long as I hit the paper is fine”……IS WRONG. It’s all about accuracy. If you put every round you fire EXACTLY where you want it, your chances of survival dramatically increase. Being the fastest in the west don’t mean diddly if you can not hit the target (boot hill is full of them)
We must also remember that it is highly unlikely that your adversary will stand nice and still for you (like a paper target will) while you take multiple shots at him. He will MOST likely be moving in an attempt to not get shot and also with the goal of doing YOU harm. I don’t care (nor will he) how fast you can shoot your 2nd or 3rd or 14th round. None of those shots will matter if you can not get combat accurate with your FIRST round, because he will be shooting at you too. For those that have not been shot at before…..it isn’t like the range……you WILL move or freeze, the prior being MOST beneficial.
So in answer to the posed questions I would suggest 1st round you fire. Regardless to who shoots first, because you can not effect where your adversaries first shot goes, you can only effect where YOURS go.
This being said you might want to focus most of your training from the concealed draw, firing YOUR FIRST shot at a moving target, while YOUR moving. Why? Coz as I said before, if you don’t master that, in the real world you might not get any more shots off…EVER.
Now why did I ask about your carry gun?
Because if we take the above to be true and agree that your first shot is the most important in a fight, then having a trigger that is the same in pull and length regardless to whether its your 1st or 17th is important. If you have a single action only, a safe action only or a double action only handgun then you will have this consistency. If you have a double action / single action gun such as a Berretta 92, Storm, Sig, etc then your trigger is dramatically different from first shot (double action) and your remaining shots (single action) this tends to make the shooter train (practice at the range) shooting the majority of his shots in single action mode (with the hammer cocked) which is counter effective. You should train the majority of you shots from the double action (hammer down) condition.
Thoughts?
www.floridafirearmstraining.com
2 questions:
1. What do you believe is the most important shot fired in a gun fight and why?
2. What is your primary carry gun and why?
Hopefully the questions poised have made you think and evaluate both. My thoughts and what we teach, is based on MY and my other instructor experience.
First of all you have to decide for yourself what is “the most important shot” in you own opinion. Yes, putting metal on meat, yes every shot (because your responsible for them all), yes the last shot fired because it means the fight is over, yes the one that stops the threat……yes….yes…yes…..they all make sense and are right in there own single dimensional way.
BUT…………….
The first round YOU fire will ultimately decide how the next imminent few moments play out. What I mean by that is regardless to what your adversary is or has done, your ability to quickly put YOUR first round onto said adversaries body is paramount. If you miss with your first round you may not get to fire any more EVER!.
Now before I get into this I want to clarify from whence this post comes. Any of you that have taken our advanced training classes will recall our theory about “combat accuracy” which is that in our opinion, any shot fired that changes the dynamics of the fight in your favor is a “combat accurate” shot. So if you first shot hits Bad Guy in the big toe and makes Bad Guy hesitate in shooting back, fall over, hop around like a Nancy boy etc etc, it has therefore changed his actions in my favor and allowed me time to make another shot, move or whatever I feel I need to do…In that case that is a good shot and in the REAL world IT IS.
But the need for speed, MUST be balanced with accuracy and sound tactics!! Simply working on the theory that “I don’t need to be THAT accurate, as long as I hit the paper is fine”……IS WRONG. It’s all about accuracy. If you put every round you fire EXACTLY where you want it, your chances of survival dramatically increase. Being the fastest in the west don’t mean diddly if you can not hit the target (boot hill is full of them)
We must also remember that it is highly unlikely that your adversary will stand nice and still for you (like a paper target will) while you take multiple shots at him. He will MOST likely be moving in an attempt to not get shot and also with the goal of doing YOU harm. I don’t care (nor will he) how fast you can shoot your 2nd or 3rd or 14th round. None of those shots will matter if you can not get combat accurate with your FIRST round, because he will be shooting at you too. For those that have not been shot at before…..it isn’t like the range……you WILL move or freeze, the prior being MOST beneficial.
So in answer to the posed questions I would suggest 1st round you fire. Regardless to who shoots first, because you can not effect where your adversaries first shot goes, you can only effect where YOURS go.
This being said you might want to focus most of your training from the concealed draw, firing YOUR FIRST shot at a moving target, while YOUR moving. Why? Coz as I said before, if you don’t master that, in the real world you might not get any more shots off…EVER.
Now why did I ask about your carry gun?
Because if we take the above to be true and agree that your first shot is the most important in a fight, then having a trigger that is the same in pull and length regardless to whether its your 1st or 17th is important. If you have a single action only, a safe action only or a double action only handgun then you will have this consistency. If you have a double action / single action gun such as a Berretta 92, Storm, Sig, etc then your trigger is dramatically different from first shot (double action) and your remaining shots (single action) this tends to make the shooter train (practice at the range) shooting the majority of his shots in single action mode (with the hammer cocked) which is counter effective. You should train the majority of you shots from the double action (hammer down) condition.
Thoughts?
www.floridafirearmstraining.com
Very insightful and much appreciated!
When I'm at the range I like to train with my hammer down, I practice with both double and single action engaged, but when I'm doing single shot or whenever I'm finished with my shots I naturally sweep the decock lever on the side of my sig, so its consistent. Do I prefer Single Action only, Yes. However the only SA pistol I have is my Glock and I don't prefer my Glock over my Sig for several reasons (mostly ergo's) so I train more with my Sig, heck I even train with Snap Caps in my house working on my DA trigger control. (that's just me though)
9/10/2010 4:34:32 AM
1. The Shots that misses me!
2. Colt 1911
2. Colt 1911
9/10/2010 5:30:18 AM
Things haven't changed since the old cowboy days where the fastest draw wasn't always the winner in actual gun fights. It was the cowboy who shot accurately to hit their mark. So what if you take a slightly longer time to draw and shoot as long as you hit the target. Who cares if you can draw fast if you can't hit anything. So draw smooth and take aim and don't miss. The first shot is the most important one. I carry a 1911 since it is dead accurate with it's sweet trigger and the large .45acp bullet does a good job.
9/12/2010 10:31:25 AM
The first shot is the most important because whomever broke it gets the first chance to win. One just needs to practice, practice, practice so he gets a first shot that is accurate. G17. It's reliable. 9mm; been proven time and time again. .45acp; good round, but I get to carry more rounds. It's about shot placement. If 9mm is good enough for many of the high speed/low drag guys, it's good enough for me.
9/12/2010 10:47:06 AM
Sure, first shot is important. But the most important shot is the one I'm firing right now.
If my first shot missed or was ineffective, it's gone and I can't afford to dwell on it. I've got more important things to worry about.
If my first shot missed or was ineffective, it's gone and I can't afford to dwell on it. I've got more important things to worry about.
9/12/2010 10:50:01 AM
Originally Posted By ColtRifle:
First shot. Average police gunfight lasts about 2.5 seconds and is decided with less than 3 shots IIRC.
That was in 1975.First shot. Average police gunfight lasts about 2.5 seconds and is decided with less than 3 shots IIRC.
9/12/2010 3:14:36 PM
the shot that gets the job done
para p 13 45 acp
para p 13 45 acp
9/12/2010 3:46:59 PM
1) The ones you're slamming at the bar later that night because you lived.
2) Kel-Tec PF-9 because...
2a) I didn't have a ton of money
2b) I wanted one gun that could fill a number of roles: pocket gun, primary handgun, take-me-out-to-the-range-gun
2c) I wanted the largest caliber I could get that fit my budget and was still small enough to conceal while out and about running.
Can't wait for the day when I can afford a 1911. Or an XDm. Or...
[drool on keyboard]
2) Kel-Tec PF-9 because...
2a) I didn't have a ton of money
2b) I wanted one gun that could fill a number of roles: pocket gun, primary handgun, take-me-out-to-the-range-gun
2c) I wanted the largest caliber I could get that fit my budget and was still small enough to conceal while out and about running.
Can't wait for the day when I can afford a 1911. Or an XDm. Or...
[drool on keyboard]
9/12/2010 9:22:37 PM
Originally Posted By glenn_r:
Sure, first shot is important. But the most important shot is the one I'm firing right now.
If my first shot missed or was ineffective, it's gone and I can't afford to dwell on it. I've got more important things to worry about.
Sure, first shot is important. But the most important shot is the one I'm firing right now.
If my first shot missed or was ineffective, it's gone and I can't afford to dwell on it. I've got more important things to worry about.
Agreed, if you get to make another shot....only IF.
9/13/2010 4:25:11 AM
Originally Posted By Britbiker:
Agreed, if you get to make another shot....only IF.
Originally Posted By glenn_r:
Sure, first shot is important. But the most important shot is the one I'm firing right now.
If my first shot missed or was ineffective, it's gone and I can't afford to dwell on it. I've got more important things to worry about.
Sure, first shot is important. But the most important shot is the one I'm firing right now.
If my first shot missed or was ineffective, it's gone and I can't afford to dwell on it. I've got more important things to worry about.
Agreed, if you get to make another shot....only IF.
Well, when I'm firing my first shot, it is the most important one. But I might very well fire more than once.
9/13/2010 3:40:08 PM
1. The most important shot is the one that stops the threat.
Let me rephrase that. The most worthwhile shot is the one that stops the threat. The most important shot is the first, as you may not have the chance for another.
2. I carry a G26 usually, and a Colt Cobra occasionally. Both conceal very well on my person, both are reliable. The G26 is not maintenance intensive. The Cobra works a bit better for pocket carry. The G26 is a bit heavy, the Cobra a bit underpowered (caliber and capacity) with slower reloads.
Let me rephrase that. The most worthwhile shot is the one that stops the threat. The most important shot is the first, as you may not have the chance for another.
2. I carry a G26 usually, and a Colt Cobra occasionally. Both conceal very well on my person, both are reliable. The G26 is not maintenance intensive. The Cobra works a bit better for pocket carry. The G26 is a bit heavy, the Cobra a bit underpowered (caliber and capacity) with slower reloads.
9/19/2010 10:19:41 AM
Supposidly there was a study done a while back that showed that an LEO who didn't get the first round off in an exchange had a certain per centage more of dying or being injured. I can't recall the link, but it was being discussed on the LE boards because of some of the legislation being floated that would require LEOs to wait be fired on before they could fire back and to require them to not aim COM when doing so. If anyone knows about the study I'm talking about, a link would be appreciated.
9/19/2010 10:52:06 AM
The one that stops the bad guy. 9MM XDSC
9/22/2010 8:17:26 PM
1. The first and the last shot.
2. Sig P220/1911 Stainless Commander
2. Sig P220/1911 Stainless Commander
9/23/2010 9:20:05 AM
Originally Posted By markfall:
Any hits that aren't on you.
Glock 19.
Plenty of capacity, accurate and ball bat reliable. Also concealable
Any hits that aren't on you.
Glock 19.
Plenty of capacity, accurate and ball bat reliable. Also concealable
I'm pretty sure that any hit on you would be important.
9/24/2010 2:04:33 PM
1. I'm not sure what you were looking for and I read through a lot of different perspectives on the replies... this is a big issue in the CFS program, because we stress the "gross time" from the ambush moment to the end of the fight.. specifically, we talk a lot about it when we are discussing the importance of good fundamentals including reaching full extension in and parallel with the line of sight to the threat AND touching the trigger before pressing (not slapping the first shot out). These fundamentals lead to better recoil management and a faster combat accurate string of fire. Some students worry about the perception that it is "taking them longer" to get the first shot off which is why this becomes a discussion. I have heard many times that you want to get the first shot off as quickly as possible to distract/injure/reset/interrupt the attacker. In fact, I used to subscribe to that line of thinking myself. Now, I have come to believe that the rapidly delivered string of fire that ends the fight is actually a better goal than the fastest first shot without regard for the follow ups. Soooooo: I say the LAST shot, the one the precedes your recognition that you don't need to shoot anymore, is the most important and getting there as quickly as possible should be the goal.
2. S&W 642 or Glock 23/27.
-RJP
2. S&W 642 or Glock 23/27.
-RJP
9/24/2010 2:11:37 PM
The last shot before your opponent no longer shoots back. Preferably the first, but more often not.
9/29/2010 1:09:35 AM
Originally Posted By ColtRifle:
You can't miss fast enough to win a gunfight.
You can't miss fast enough to win a gunfight.
This.....
A fast accurate shot and accurate follow up shots to stop the evil action
are the most important tactics in a gunfight
10/15/2010 4:14:54 AM
The first shot is most important of course.
On duty- M16 Commando w/ 11.5" Barrel (primary, although some people see it the other way around), and Sig P226 (secondary)
(because that's what I'm issued)
Off duty- Glock 19
(because I have a lot of confidence in it)
On duty- M16 Commando w/ 11.5" Barrel (primary, although some people see it the other way around), and Sig P226 (secondary)
(because that's what I'm issued)
Off duty- Glock 19
(because I have a lot of confidence in it)
10/15/2010 4:24:59 AM
1. What do you believe is the most important shot fired in a gun fight and why?
first, and hopefully last, once you start shooting back they will probably start moving so the first shot it most likely to hit, and thereby end the fight
2. What is your primary carry gun and why?
S&W 642 (snubbie 38spl+P) just cause its small and light and super easy to carry and I WILL carry it all the time. In the winter i usually carry a G22 or 1911
first, and hopefully last, once you start shooting back they will probably start moving so the first shot it most likely to hit, and thereby end the fight
2. What is your primary carry gun and why?
S&W 642 (snubbie 38spl+P) just cause its small and light and super easy to carry and I WILL carry it all the time. In the winter i usually carry a G22 or 1911
11/1/2010 10:38:37 AM
I carry a Springfield XDm in .40 S&W. IT holds 17 rounds. It fits my hand real well and i can quickly point and shoot accuratly. I have looked at the smaller pocket guns but i dont feel i could manipulate or operate them efficiently in a high stress situation when you lose your fine motor skills. Am i wrong in that feeling?
11/4/2010 8:02:58 PM
First and last hit.
Ruger LCP
Because I can't seem to come up with a reason/wardrobe to not carry it at all times.
Ruger LCP
Because I can't seem to come up with a reason/wardrobe to not carry it at all times.
11/4/2010 10:16:01 PM
Before I read the whole thread I was already going to answer 1st shot. That 1st shot needs to hit, I'm not going to prison or being sued because my bullets hit the wrong people (hopefully).
I carry a 1911 Pro Carry because I like 45 and I like 1911's. They fit my hand, love that short crisp SAO trigger. The point is very natural to me. I practice drawing from CCW and point shooting.
I also compete in tactical shooting but I use a Sig 226R. I find myself cocking the hammer before firing. I use it for the high capacity, I also shoot very well with it. I do practice the DA pull and draw as well, just not as often.
I carry a 1911 Pro Carry because I like 45 and I like 1911's. They fit my hand, love that short crisp SAO trigger. The point is very natural to me. I practice drawing from CCW and point shooting.
I also compete in tactical shooting but I use a Sig 226R. I find myself cocking the hammer before firing. I use it for the high capacity, I also shoot very well with it. I do practice the DA pull and draw as well, just not as often.
12/12/2010 5:22:23 PM
Originally Posted By Britbiker:
2 questions:
1. What do you believe is the most important shot fired in a gun fight and why?
2. What is your primary carry gun and why?
Hopefully the questions poised have made you think and evaluate both. My thoughts and what we teach, is based on MY and my other instructor experience.
First of all you have to decide for yourself what is “the most important shot” in you own opinion. Yes, putting metal on meat, yes every shot (because your responsible for them all), yes the last shot fired because it means the fight is over, yes the one that stops the threat……yes….yes…yes…..they all make sense and are right in there own single dimensional way.
BUT…………….
The first round YOU fire will ultimately decide how the next imminent few moments play out. What I mean by that is regardless to what your adversary is or has done, your ability to quickly put YOUR first round onto said adversaries body is paramount. If you miss with your first round you may not get to fire any more EVER!.
Now before I get into this I want to clarify from whence this post comes. Any of you that have taken our advanced training classes will recall our theory about “combat accuracy” which is that in our opinion, any shot fired that changes the dynamics of the fight in your favor is a “combat accurate” shot. So if you first shot hits Bad Guy in the big toe and makes Bad Guy hesitate in shooting back, fall over, hop around like a Nancy boy etc etc, it has therefore changed his actions in my favor and allowed me time to make another shot, move or whatever I feel I need to do…In that case that is a good shot and in the REAL world IT IS.
But the need for speed, MUST be balanced with accuracy and sound tactics!! Simply working on the theory that “I don’t need to be THAT accurate, as long as I hit the paper is fine”……IS WRONG. It’s all about accuracy. If you put every round you fire EXACTLY where you want it, your chances of survival dramatically increase. Being the fastest in the west don’t mean diddly if you can not hit the target (boot hill is full of them)
We must also remember that it is highly unlikely that your adversary will stand nice and still for you (like a paper target will) while you take multiple shots at him. He will MOST likely be moving in an attempt to not get shot and also with the goal of doing YOU harm. I don’t care (nor will he) how fast you can shoot your 2nd or 3rd or 14th round. None of those shots will matter if you can not get combat accurate with your FIRST round, because he will be shooting at you too. For those that have not been shot at before…..it isn’t like the range……you WILL move or freeze, the prior being MOST beneficial.
So in answer to the posed questions I would suggest 1st round you fire. Regardless to who shoots first, because you can not effect where your adversaries first shot goes, you can only effect where YOURS go.
This being said you might want to focus most of your training from the concealed draw, firing YOUR FIRST shot at a moving target, while YOUR moving. Why? Coz as I said before, if you don’t master that, in the real world you might not get any more shots off…EVER.
Now why did I ask about your carry gun?
Because if we take the above to be true and agree that your first shot is the most important in a fight, then having a trigger that is the same in pull and length regardless to whether its your 1st or 17th is important. If you have a single action only, a safe action only or a double action only handgun then you will have this consistency. If you have a double action / single action gun such as a Berretta 92, Storm, Sig, etc then your trigger is dramatically different from first shot (double action) and your remaining shots (single action) this tends to make the shooter train (practice at the range) shooting the majority of his shots in single action mode (with the hammer cocked) which is counter effective. You should train the majority of you shots from the double action (hammer down) condition.
Thoughts?
www.floridafirearmstraining.com
2 questions:
1. What do you believe is the most important shot fired in a gun fight and why?
2. What is your primary carry gun and why?
Hopefully the questions poised have made you think and evaluate both. My thoughts and what we teach, is based on MY and my other instructor experience.
First of all you have to decide for yourself what is “the most important shot” in you own opinion. Yes, putting metal on meat, yes every shot (because your responsible for them all), yes the last shot fired because it means the fight is over, yes the one that stops the threat……yes….yes…yes…..they all make sense and are right in there own single dimensional way.
BUT…………….
The first round YOU fire will ultimately decide how the next imminent few moments play out. What I mean by that is regardless to what your adversary is or has done, your ability to quickly put YOUR first round onto said adversaries body is paramount. If you miss with your first round you may not get to fire any more EVER!.
Now before I get into this I want to clarify from whence this post comes. Any of you that have taken our advanced training classes will recall our theory about “combat accuracy” which is that in our opinion, any shot fired that changes the dynamics of the fight in your favor is a “combat accurate” shot. So if you first shot hits Bad Guy in the big toe and makes Bad Guy hesitate in shooting back, fall over, hop around like a Nancy boy etc etc, it has therefore changed his actions in my favor and allowed me time to make another shot, move or whatever I feel I need to do…In that case that is a good shot and in the REAL world IT IS.
But the need for speed, MUST be balanced with accuracy and sound tactics!! Simply working on the theory that “I don’t need to be THAT accurate, as long as I hit the paper is fine”……IS WRONG. It’s all about accuracy. If you put every round you fire EXACTLY where you want it, your chances of survival dramatically increase. Being the fastest in the west don’t mean diddly if you can not hit the target (boot hill is full of them)
We must also remember that it is highly unlikely that your adversary will stand nice and still for you (like a paper target will) while you take multiple shots at him. He will MOST likely be moving in an attempt to not get shot and also with the goal of doing YOU harm. I don’t care (nor will he) how fast you can shoot your 2nd or 3rd or 14th round. None of those shots will matter if you can not get combat accurate with your FIRST round, because he will be shooting at you too. For those that have not been shot at before…..it isn’t like the range……you WILL move or freeze, the prior being MOST beneficial.
So in answer to the posed questions I would suggest 1st round you fire. Regardless to who shoots first, because you can not effect where your adversaries first shot goes, you can only effect where YOURS go.
This being said you might want to focus most of your training from the concealed draw, firing YOUR FIRST shot at a moving target, while YOUR moving. Why? Coz as I said before, if you don’t master that, in the real world you might not get any more shots off…EVER.
Now why did I ask about your carry gun?
Because if we take the above to be true and agree that your first shot is the most important in a fight, then having a trigger that is the same in pull and length regardless to whether its your 1st or 17th is important. If you have a single action only, a safe action only or a double action only handgun then you will have this consistency. If you have a double action / single action gun such as a Berretta 92, Storm, Sig, etc then your trigger is dramatically different from first shot (double action) and your remaining shots (single action) this tends to make the shooter train (practice at the range) shooting the majority of his shots in single action mode (with the hammer cocked) which is counter effective. You should train the majority of you shots from the double action (hammer down) condition.
Thoughts?
www.floridafirearmstraining.com
This is exactly what a friend of mine said who returned from Afganistan after several tours with the army. I have no doubt he had done many house entry missions, and survived many a gunfight. I picked his brain for advice one day.
His basic point was to get a round in the threat as quickly as possible, to start to inflict pain on them, thus changing the dynamic in your favor.
I'm not suggesting these guy were shooting wildly, as he said several of his team shot almost exclusively head shots with their M4s.
He also said he never fired his backup pistol once in a firefight the whole time he was there. I found this interesting.
His description of how an entry team works, with the first few guys entering the room basically acting as bullet sponges for rest of the team really shed a whole new light on what these guys go through. I cant imagine doing what they do, even with body armor on. It is truly amazing.
12/13/2010 4:08:47 PM
1. The shot that stops the threat (hopefully the first....but that brings up the second.
2. GLock 27 or Glock 19 depending on the temperature and clothing mood. On the nightstand: Glock 19 w TL3, 870 w/00 buck under the bed and a MP15 in the fall back locker.
Something I read somewhere:
Drill Sergeant Joe B. Fricks Rules For A Gunfight
1. Forget about knives, bats and fists. Bring a gun. Preferably, bring at least two guns. Bring all of your friends who have guns. Bring four times the ammunition you think you could ever need.
2. Anything worth shooting is worth shooting twice. Ammunition is cheap - life is expensive. If you shoot inside, buckshot is your friend. A new wall is cheap - funerals are expensive
3. Only hits count. The only thing worse than a miss is a slow miss.
4. If your shooting stance is good, you're probably not moving fast enough or using cover correctly.
5. Move away from your attacker and go to cover. Distance is your friend. (Bulletproof cover and diagonal or lateral movement are preferred.)
6. If you can choose what to bring to a gunfight, bring a semi or full-automatic long gun and a friend with a long gun.
7. In ten years nobody will remember the details of caliber, stance, or tactics. They will only remember who lived.
8. If you are not shooting, you should be communicating, reloading, and running. Yell "Fire!" Why "Fire"? Cops will come with the Fire Department, sirens often scare off the bad guys, or at least cause then to lose concentration and will.... and who is going to summon help if you yell "Intruder," "Glock" or "Winchester?"
9. Accuracy is relative: most combat shooting standards will be more dependent on "pucker factor" than the inherent accuracy of the gun.
10. Someday someone may kill you with your own gun, but they should have to beat you to death with it because it is empty.
11. Stretch the rules. Always win. The only unfair fight is the one you lose.
12. Have a plan.
13. Have a back-up plan, because the first one won't work. "No battle plan ever survives 10 seconds past first contact with an enemy."
14. Use cover or concealment as much as possible, but remember, sheetrock walls and the like stop nothing but your pulse when bullets tear through them.
15. Flank your adversary when possible. Protect yours.
16. Don't drop your guard.
17. Always tactical load and threat scan 360 degrees. Practice reloading one-handed and off-hand shooting. That's how you live if hit in your "good" side.
18. Watch their hands. Hands kill. Smiles, frowns and other facial expressions don't (In God we trust. Everyone else keep your hands where I can see them.)
19. Decide NOW to always be aggressive ENOUGH, quickly ENOUGH.
20. The faster you finish the fight, the less shot you will get.
21. Be polite. Be professional. But, have a plan to kill everyone you meet if necessary, because they may want to kill you.
22. Be courteous to everyone, overly friendly to no one.
23. Your number one option for personal security is a lifelong commitment to avoidance, deterrence, and de-escalation.
24. Do not attend a gunfight with a handgun, the caliber of which does not start with anything smaller than "4".
25. Use a gun that works EVERY TIME. "All skill is in vain when an Angel blows the powder from the flintlock of your musket." At a practice session, throw you gun into the mud, then make sure it still works. You can clean it later.
26. Practice shooting in the dark, with someone shouting at you, when out of breath, etc.
27. Regardless of whether justified of not, you will feel sad about killing another human being. It is better to be sad than to be room temperature.
28. The only thing you EVER say afterwards is, "He said he was going to kill me. I believed him. I'm sorry, Officer, but I'm very upset now. I can't say anything more. Please speak with my attorney."
Finally, Drill Sergeant Frick's Rules For Un-armed Combat.
1. Never be unarmed.
2. GLock 27 or Glock 19 depending on the temperature and clothing mood. On the nightstand: Glock 19 w TL3, 870 w/00 buck under the bed and a MP15 in the fall back locker.
Something I read somewhere:
Drill Sergeant Joe B. Fricks Rules For A Gunfight
1. Forget about knives, bats and fists. Bring a gun. Preferably, bring at least two guns. Bring all of your friends who have guns. Bring four times the ammunition you think you could ever need.
2. Anything worth shooting is worth shooting twice. Ammunition is cheap - life is expensive. If you shoot inside, buckshot is your friend. A new wall is cheap - funerals are expensive
3. Only hits count. The only thing worse than a miss is a slow miss.
4. If your shooting stance is good, you're probably not moving fast enough or using cover correctly.
5. Move away from your attacker and go to cover. Distance is your friend. (Bulletproof cover and diagonal or lateral movement are preferred.)
6. If you can choose what to bring to a gunfight, bring a semi or full-automatic long gun and a friend with a long gun.
7. In ten years nobody will remember the details of caliber, stance, or tactics. They will only remember who lived.
8. If you are not shooting, you should be communicating, reloading, and running. Yell "Fire!" Why "Fire"? Cops will come with the Fire Department, sirens often scare off the bad guys, or at least cause then to lose concentration and will.... and who is going to summon help if you yell "Intruder," "Glock" or "Winchester?"
9. Accuracy is relative: most combat shooting standards will be more dependent on "pucker factor" than the inherent accuracy of the gun.
10. Someday someone may kill you with your own gun, but they should have to beat you to death with it because it is empty.
11. Stretch the rules. Always win. The only unfair fight is the one you lose.
12. Have a plan.
13. Have a back-up plan, because the first one won't work. "No battle plan ever survives 10 seconds past first contact with an enemy."
14. Use cover or concealment as much as possible, but remember, sheetrock walls and the like stop nothing but your pulse when bullets tear through them.
15. Flank your adversary when possible. Protect yours.
16. Don't drop your guard.
17. Always tactical load and threat scan 360 degrees. Practice reloading one-handed and off-hand shooting. That's how you live if hit in your "good" side.
18. Watch their hands. Hands kill. Smiles, frowns and other facial expressions don't (In God we trust. Everyone else keep your hands where I can see them.)
19. Decide NOW to always be aggressive ENOUGH, quickly ENOUGH.
20. The faster you finish the fight, the less shot you will get.
21. Be polite. Be professional. But, have a plan to kill everyone you meet if necessary, because they may want to kill you.
22. Be courteous to everyone, overly friendly to no one.
23. Your number one option for personal security is a lifelong commitment to avoidance, deterrence, and de-escalation.
24. Do not attend a gunfight with a handgun, the caliber of which does not start with anything smaller than "4".
25. Use a gun that works EVERY TIME. "All skill is in vain when an Angel blows the powder from the flintlock of your musket." At a practice session, throw you gun into the mud, then make sure it still works. You can clean it later.
26. Practice shooting in the dark, with someone shouting at you, when out of breath, etc.
27. Regardless of whether justified of not, you will feel sad about killing another human being. It is better to be sad than to be room temperature.
28. The only thing you EVER say afterwards is, "He said he was going to kill me. I believed him. I'm sorry, Officer, but I'm very upset now. I can't say anything more. Please speak with my attorney."
Finally, Drill Sergeant Frick's Rules For Un-armed Combat.
1. Never be unarmed.
