My thoughts on 3 gun

On 3gun it's a game too expensive for me to play.

On it's value: I would say it's a dangerous game. People actually see it as training and it's not. It's a game were the quickest time is the goal. Not Accuracy not Survival. Same for the IPSC,USPA and others.

As for LE and Military it's a dangerous game to play as it will pollute their skill base.

You fight as you train and any deviation from your training ( LE and Military ) will get you killed.

Just my thoughts. Agree or disagree I really don't care. I'm off to the range to shoot my new acquisition. A S&W model 66-1. It's already a 2A kind of day when I can get to the range.

hahahhaha

I tend to agree that it is a game, but as for the "it'll get you killed" statement that floats around all too often, take a look @ this thread about 3 posts down from you.
Marines and 3 Gun

Thanks for sharing.

Correct me if I'm wrong....but you are scored for accuracy.

I guess you missed THIS THREAD right here.

Its a game. If you don't want to play then don't. You just have to take out of it what you want. A cop or soldier can get a lot out of 3-gun if they are in it for learning how to run their guns hard, with the added stress elements of 1) time, and 2) the fear of failure in front of your peers.

And I'm not sure where all these LEOs and military guys are, who swear that "3-gun is completely realistic training" are at––I've never run into them at a match. The few cops that I see shooting matches (and I'm a cop, by the way) are there to have fun and shoot zombie targets, not to check off the 'anual force-on-force qualification' box for work.

ETA...Have you ever tried it? I mean, suspended your pure tactical mind for an afternoon and went and tried it? Its really a lot of fun. You don't necessarily need to get anything else out of it. I shoot 5-stand from time to time, and have never been bird hunting...Its just fun.

No problem. You sound like the type of person that won't be missed at the matches.

DanO

Retarded thread is retarded.

I have an idea OP. Lets go shoot a 3-gun match and see who wins. Then lets load up with sim rounds and head to the shoothouse and see who wins there. I bet its the same person both times.

So what.

Why all this hate for three gun all of a sudden? I can't figure out what got all the tacticool, plinker, airsoft crowd in a dither.

Personally, I am glad they stay home. A keyboard is a much betterway to learn skills and they never have to prove anything in front of witnesses.

They went to a match came in last now they are bitter.

Three gun is some new fangled fad...I use Duck Hunt for my training....

Nothing wrong with 3 gun, it is as good as nay other shooting comeptition and you can learn things from it. The only reason I won't shoot three gun is that every match boils down to how fast you load a shotgun and I just don;t care to spend a lot of time learning that.

So, basically, human beings are incapable of having multiple skill sets without getting them confused? Good to know. BTW, can you point to any one incident to back up this claim? I can see the eulogy now......."If only he hadn't participated in those darn competitions, maybe he'd still be with us....."

+1 I'm brand new to multi gun and I've never heard someone(aside from naysayers) insinuate that it's a replacement for training. It's a big skill improver and fun game. Obviously you're not getting tactics from a stage where you charge into a room and hose 20 targets..

dt

Not every stage uses a shotgun. Learning to load a shotgun fast is no different than learning to draw and reload fast. I don't practice loading much either, not as much as I should. I shoot with guys that single load from side saddles, as well as loading from the box the ammo came in. As long as you're realistic with your skills and don't set your expectations above that, you can still have fun. If you're out to win guns off prize tables and don't want to put in the work, then shooting competitions as a whole wouldn't be for you. I shoot them because it's fun.

I don't think you know much about 3 gun (or IPSC or USPSA) if you think accuracy is not a requirement. It is essential.

But, yes 3 gun will get you killed on the street (Kyle L is lucky to be alive after shooting in the USPSA 3 gun Nationals and Soldier of Fortune 3 gun)..... unlike plinking with a Model 66-1.

Didn't we have a post just like this a week ago? Had like 4 pages before it got locked for "Name Calling"?
Why do people find it neccesary to come in and bash a game that other people like? Most people wouldn't go to an NFL game and announce to the crowd that football is a stupid game... What was achieved by you starting this thread?

I think the OP forgot to add the sarcasm smile. At least, I'd like to think so..

You sound like they typical sore looser who came out with your big ego and got your ass handed to you via the scoresheet.

if you think accuracy isn't important in IPSC and 3 gun, you've probably never seen a real master or GM shooting a big match.



So, thanks for staying home, because we have enough D-class crybaby's spouting off excuses on why they can't succeed.

"my reloads are bad"

"the sun was in my eyes"

"yeah, ....but I shot it TACTICALLY!"

"they messed up my scoresheet"











Is that what you wanted to hear?

You should see the email the OP of that thread sent me in reguards to it. It was probably the best part of the thread.

Could you forward that to our inbox's

Mods would I be in trouble for posting it here (name deleted of course since he made sure to sign it with his real name, rank, Dept and phone #)? The douche baggery is epic.

Please IM that to me too. I love reading Douchebaggery! Makes me smile.

I think I'm going to head over to the bullseye threads and start a "why bullseye will get you killed" thread. I mean really, you just stand there and shoot. No cover, no concealment, shoot slow and way too accurate for real defensive applications.


Joking aside, we all like guns. Some like to shoot them, some like to look at them. Don't pee in someone else's wheaties because you don't agree with the sport they shoot them in. If the OP's thread had been in the general section, no biggie. But to come to the 3gun thread and post it just doesn't make sense.

Dragongoddess, go away.

I had the pleasure of reading it. It was great.

Please post it here for all of us to be entertained.
http://www.xtranormal.com/

Aside from the shooting i have run in to some of the finest people you could meet at 3 gun matches.

IM me a copy too please. I could not believe that thread was real.

Here's an article on Military Marksmanship Training Versus Competitive Shooting Training from a 'Tier 1 operator'.
Or at least I think hes Tier 1. I really have no idea what that means anymore...

Here's his credentials so you tell us if he's qualified to shed light on this subject:
- Has been a competitive shooter for the last 10 years: USPSA, IDPA, and 3-Gun.
- U.S. Army 3rd Special Forces Group, Ft. Bragg, NC.
- Spent 3 years as an instructor at the John F. Kennedy Special Warfare Center and School
- Spent 8 years with U.S. Army 5th Special Forces Group, Ft. Campbell KY and did 3 tours in Iraq.
- Graduated the U.S. Army Special Forces Qualification course in 1998 as a Weapons Sergeant.
- Spent 7 years in the mechanized infantry and Airborne.
- Served in First Gulf War (Operation Desert Storm) in Iraq with the 1st Armored Division.|
- Joined the U.S. Army in June of 1990 as an infantryman.

Good article. Thanks for posting the link. Hadn't seen that one yet. Still won't stop the nay-sayers.

I would love to see the e-mail as well. OP......obvious troll is obvious.....

Actually I have. Got a couple in our local USPSA club. Shoot with them monthly at our matches. In fact at this past months match accuracy wise I out shot the 2 GM's on 3 out of 4 stages but time wise I failed. I just can no longer move like I used too and I accept it. Yet you failed to understand my point. You fight as you train and 3gun is a game not training but people believe it is. Again as I said, my thoughts and you can believe otherwise.

My USPSA info.
Revolver: S&W model 25-2 in 45acp.
Classification: U: for the moment
Lady
Senior




Let me add this. It's my thoughts therefore my opinion. I have every right to that opinion as you have to yours. Attacking someone because you have a different opinion only makes your case weak.

Let's be frank. When a GM takes 20 seconds to complete the stage and it takes me 99 seconds I lose every time even when I outshoot them. I'm mobility impaired, I don't like it but there is nothing I can do about it but I still step up to that line to compete when I know I have zero chance to win. My win is stepping up to the line to shoot. That's my success. That's my victory.

Holy crap! I never realized that three0gun is a game!

oh noes! I am not the tacticool ninja that I thought I was... ohhh, the humanity.

It's a freaking game. It does help me shoot under time and accuracy pressure that simply isn't there when I am benched and shooting slowly.

Will it make me a Secret Squirrel? nope, but it beats playing Nintendo or COH: Black ops.


Oh... and it has helped my speed and accuracy. So... in case I am ever called upon to help the police or local SWAT team... I am ready.... (Holy Sarcasm, Batman)

I would also like the email IM'ed.

This is where you're wrong.

I am a ejection seat mech in the AF. In the almost 7 years I have handled an M-16A2 a total 5 times.

The first time in BMT shooting about 60 rounds at paper targets.
second time again about 60 rounds at paper targets prior to deploying to Afghanistan.
third time was a FTX for one day only getting to shoot about 40 rounds of blanks.
fourth and fifth time were exactly like the the second and third time prior to Afghanistan again.

In all of those times I got to shoot or play with the M16A2, their remedy for when you had gun malfunctions was to use SPORTS for every type of malfunction. If that didn't fix it the first time do it again and again. then call a cadre over to help you with the gun, and he would fix it for you.


I can tell you that from in the one year I have been shooting 3 gun that I can clear any jam more efficiently and quickly with out the Air Forces SPORTS/cadre method.

Is 3 gun the end all be all for training? far from it. can it be helpful? yes. will it get me killed ? don't know when my gun jams in a fire fight ill make sure to call a cadre over and ask him.

If you can't tell the difference between real life and game, well then it sucks to be you.

I would rather have a guy that can hit a bad guy 5 times all over his body in a second over a guy who could drop them in one shot, but takes 15 seconds doing so. Yes, 3 gun is a game. No, it will not get you killed. It reinforces good handling skills. No it doesnt teach tactics and no one claims it does.

If competitive shooting in general was not beneficial to the guys in the field, then why is Larry Vickers on of the founding members of IDPA? Why does Kyle Lamb not only endorse but remain active in 3 gun shooting? Why are more and more soldiers, who have been overseas or yet to go, attending competitive shooting matches across the country? Don't confuse tactics with techniques. Competitive shooting does not teach or enforce tactics. It does allow the shooter to test, modify, and improve their techniques.

Amen. Buying everything from Tacticool.com and jerkin' off to Soldier of Boredom or SWAT doesn't mean you can shoot worth a crap.

Same story, different week and IP address.

Rich

I'm sorry, I don't remember anyone asking you.

Dragongoddess:

You do win by stepping up to the line to shoot, even though you won't win the match, you do improve your shooting skills. We have a shooter that is mobility impared as well. He knows he won't win the match, but he shows up to every match anyway. Always with a smile.

To put it into context about outshooting the GM's: If they shot slow they could shoot just as accurately as you do. The difference is they are out to win. They don't intentionally shoot Charlies or Delta's but accept them at times to achieve a faster time.

I still haven't met the people that believe abosolutely that 3 gun is a replacement for tactical training. People talk about them, but I've yet to meet one.

Nvm

How the heck is it too expensive???? The matches are $20-30. What kind of AR15.com member doesn't have an AR (or even an AK or M1 Garand), some sort of beatup 870 or Mossberg, and a handgun. I could easily run the handgun portion with a $125 HighPoint if money was really an issue.

If it took you 99 seconds to run the stage compared to the GMs 20 seconds, then let's get something straight - you DID NOT outshoot them.

+ one million.......

please see announcement

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