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What AR15 BBL for a 3gun build?
5/26/2011 1:40:04 PM
Wondering what you guys think about barrel length and gas systems for a 3 gun build-
would you choose 20" for the higher accuracy but sacrafice weight, 18" for a balance, or 16" for less velocity but lighter weight?
I'm putting a build together for 3G, and would love some feedback.
would you choose 20" for the higher accuracy but sacrafice weight, 18" for a balance, or 16" for less velocity but lighter weight?
I'm putting a build together for 3G, and would love some feedback.
5/26/2011 2:39:10 PM
Barrel length has nothing to do with accuracy. 20s are not more accurate than 18s which are not more accurate than 16s etc. Barrel length does effect muzzle velocity which may be a factor if you will be shooting a lot of long range stages. Rifle length gas systems are generally "softer" to shoot.
MOST (but not all) top 3 gunners run 18 or 20 in barrels. The idea that 16 in barrels are somehow faster to transition between targets or are more handy in the 3 gun match setting is false. I have yet to see the match where I was wishing for a shorter barrel.
This is not to say that a 16 in barrel cannot be competitive.
MOST (but not all) top 3 gunners run 18 or 20 in barrels. The idea that 16 in barrels are somehow faster to transition between targets or are more handy in the 3 gun match setting is false. I have yet to see the match where I was wishing for a shorter barrel.
This is not to say that a 16 in barrel cannot be competitive.
5/26/2011 2:50:42 PM
Ran across this barrel in the midway add yesterday looks interesting, I'm looking for a barrel in the 18-20" range with rifle length gas port.
Link
Anyone have any experience with this barrel or with DPMS barrels in general?
Link
Anyone have any experience with this barrel or with DPMS barrels in general?
5/26/2011 5:03:32 PM
I ran a 16 inch barrel for years, after wearing it out, I changed to a 20 inch, so that I could get more velocity.
I was running a scope with BCD drops,, and getting the load running fast enough to match the scope was difficult in a 16 inch barrel.
I can't think of any match that a 16 inch barrel was a factor in maneuvering in a stage.
Went with a,,
AR-Stoner Barrel AR-15 223 Remington (Wylde) SDM-R Contour 1 in 8" Twist 20" Fluted Stainless Steel
I'm liking it!
I was running a scope with BCD drops,, and getting the load running fast enough to match the scope was difficult in a 16 inch barrel.
I can't think of any match that a 16 inch barrel was a factor in maneuvering in a stage.
Went with a,,
AR-Stoner Barrel AR-15 223 Remington (Wylde) SDM-R Contour 1 in 8" Twist 20" Fluted Stainless Steel
I'm liking it!
5/26/2011 5:28:08 PM
After years of running a 20", I have recently been playing with a 16" and don't feel outclassed. One benefit is that you can shave a lot of weight off while keeping the barrel relatively thick under the handguard and thus stiffer (a real factor in accuracy). In the the matches I shoot, I rarely need to reach out much past 400 yards, and even at the extremes of distance the bullet drop difference is manageable. At a recent match I had no trouble making a first-shot hit at 500 yards from a lightweight 16" middy with non-magnified red-dot.
If you are running an optic, don't obsess too much on barrel length... now, if you are running irons, then stick with a 20" and a front sight just behind the muzzle, to maximize sight radius.
If you are running an optic, don't obsess too much on barrel length... now, if you are running irons, then stick with a 20" and a front sight just behind the muzzle, to maximize sight radius.
5/26/2011 8:08:53 PM
I had 2 rifles setup exactly the same except one had an 18" JP barrel with a rifle length gas system and the other a 16" JP barrel with a mid length gas system. The 16" seemed to move more when shooting. I don't know if it was caused by a lighter barrel (7 oz) or the gas system but I'd sacrifice the additional weight for the flatter rifle. Besides, when the clock goes off, I doubt I'll notice the additional weight.
5/26/2011 8:10:15 PM
Originally Posted By DCMoney:
Ran across this barrel in the midway add yesterday looks interesting, I'm looking for a barrel in the 18-20" range with rifle length gas port.
Link
Anyone have any experience with this barrel or with DPMS barrels in general?
Ran across this barrel in the midway add yesterday looks interesting, I'm looking for a barrel in the 18-20" range with rifle length gas port.
Link
Anyone have any experience with this barrel or with DPMS barrels in general?
I have that DPMS barrel. I shot a few matches with it. I love it so far. Not to heavy, nickel size holes at 50yds shooting off a terrible bag.
I started with my 16" S&W HD AR. It did fine in most cases. Quality matters.
5/26/2011 8:21:03 PM
I use an 18" White Oak SPR barrel. It has a Wylde chamber, it's stainless steel, and 1:7 twist. It's very accurate with heavy bullets and a good weight/balance for me.
5/26/2011 11:07:52 PM
Originally Posted By gotigers:
I have that DPMS barrel. I shot a few matches with it. I love it so far. Not to heavy, nickel size holes at 50yds shooting off a terrible bag.
I started with my 16" S&W HD AR. It did fine in most cases. Quality matters.
Originally Posted By DCMoney:
Ran across this barrel in the midway add yesterday looks interesting, I'm looking for a barrel in the 18-20" range with rifle length gas port.
Link
Anyone have any experience with this barrel or with DPMS barrels in general?
Ran across this barrel in the midway add yesterday looks interesting, I'm looking for a barrel in the 18-20" range with rifle length gas port.
Link
Anyone have any experience with this barrel or with DPMS barrels in general?
I have that DPMS barrel. I shot a few matches with it. I love it so far. Not to heavy, nickel size holes at 50yds shooting off a terrible bag.
I started with my 16" S&W HD AR. It did fine in most cases. Quality matters.
Thanks for your input! The price is very tempting.
Also considered the WOA barrels.
5/27/2011 2:08:09 PM
I am happy with the DPMS, but there are quite a few better barrels out there. I built my rifle on a budget or I would have looked at Noveske.
5/28/2011 9:12:42 AM
WOA or Black Hole Weaponry.
My next build will be a 18", rifle length gas system.
My next build will be a 18", rifle length gas system.
5/29/2011 11:57:27 PM
I used a 20'' BCM SAM-R barrel for my latest 3-gun rifle and the more I shoot it the more I like it.
That DPMS barrel has gotten good reviews from everyone I know who has bought one. For that price I am tempted to get one just to stick in a corner for the next time I build a rifle or for when I eventually shoot my current barrel out.
That DPMS barrel has gotten good reviews from everyone I know who has bought one. For that price I am tempted to get one just to stick in a corner for the next time I build a rifle or for when I eventually shoot my current barrel out.
6/2/2011 5:05:41 PM
I shoot a BHW 16" midlength and couldn't be happier.
My next BBL will be an 18" BHW rifle length,however they are back ordered 6-8 weeks.
One thing I do notice is its nice to have a rifle length handguard to get that support hand way out there.
But for accuracy concerns I've been pleased with BHW.
My next BBL will be an 18" BHW rifle length,however they are back ordered 6-8 weeks.
One thing I do notice is its nice to have a rifle length handguard to get that support hand way out there.
But for accuracy concerns I've been pleased with BHW.
6/2/2011 7:46:31 PM
I just ordered the dpms barrel friday and received it yesterday from midway. I should have this upper finished in a few weeks when I decide what else to put around it. I will update with how it turns out.
Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
6/3/2011 12:53:41 PM
I am running a 20" BHW.
6/4/2011 8:35:08 PM
18" Fluted Sabre with mid length gas. Shoots great and light weight. Very flat with an SJC Titan brake.
6/6/2011 11:53:57 PM
Just get the Noveske Team Upper in 18" and laugh at all the guys shooting those heavy frikkin boat anchors. 
J223...
J223...
6/11/2011 7:51:44 PM
I have always run a rifle length gas system cut down to 17.5 inches. Best of both worlds...short, light, soft shooting. You need to remember that a 3 Gun rifle doesnt need to be a benchrest rifle in terms of how accurate it is...1.5 MOA is plenty good enough. More is better, but you are just gilding-the-lily. Reliability is the name of the game...if your gun doesnt work, and always work, you wont finish in the top half, period.
Jerry Miculek has a 3 Gun barrel test that he uses...do a 30 round mag dump and then shoot a group. If its 1.5 MOA or better, you got yourself a rifle.
Jerry Miculek has a 3 Gun barrel test that he uses...do a 30 round mag dump and then shoot a group. If its 1.5 MOA or better, you got yourself a rifle.
6/12/2011 2:22:20 AM
Just finished building my rifle based around that DPMS 18in barrel. I can't wait to take it to the range.
Details:
Doublestar lower
CMMG 2 stage trigger
DPMS 18in barrel
Battlecomp 1.0
Rainier upper and BCG
Troy handguards
Details:
Doublestar lower
CMMG 2 stage trigger
DPMS 18in barrel
Battlecomp 1.0
Rainier upper and BCG
Troy handguards
6/14/2011 11:37:42 AM
I'm now torn between the 16" WOA and the 18" WOA mid; I'd get them through ADCO and have them fluted full length to shave weight down. Main reason I'm drifting towards the 16" is because this rifle will not be a dedicated 3G rifle; it's meant to be multipurpose (because I don't have the $$ for 5 different AR15s) meaning I need it for everything from home defense to 3G to coyote hunting.
Thoughts?
Thoughts?
6/14/2011 12:08:08 PM
Originally Posted By NightHawkIX:
I'm now torn between the 16" WOA and the 18" WOA mid; I'd get them through ADCO and have them fluted full length to shave weight down. Main reason I'm drifting towards the 16" is because this rifle will not be a dedicated 3G rifle; it's meant to be multipurpose (because I don't have the $$ for 5 different AR15s) meaning I need it for everything from home defense to 3G to coyote hunting.
Thoughts?
I'm now torn between the 16" WOA and the 18" WOA mid; I'd get them through ADCO and have them fluted full length to shave weight down. Main reason I'm drifting towards the 16" is because this rifle will not be a dedicated 3G rifle; it's meant to be multipurpose (because I don't have the $$ for 5 different AR15s) meaning I need it for everything from home defense to 3G to coyote hunting.
Thoughts?
You can't go wrong. I shoot with a guy who comes in 1st or 2nd at local matches... and shoots a 14.5" with carbine gas and pinned brake.
Choosing your barrel is simple. First - it must meet the accuracy requirements of 3gun. Almost ANY barrel will do that.
Second - it is about recoil management. This has to do with using an efficient muzzle device that controls rearward and upward movement from the firing of the bullet, then reducing reciprocating mass which is secondary movement caused by the buffer and carrier mass stopping at the end of the buffer tube, and the slam into locked position. Increasing the weight of the gun and balancing the gun weight helps with both of these... based on your shooting style. Reducing the gas impulse with an adjustable gas block also helps limit the rearward speed of the mass, especially in conjunction with a lighter buffer and carrier.
I am convinced that if you aren't a TOP shooter, then these smaller factors matter very little compared to actual gun handling skills, accuracy, and stage management. Once you have those areas mastered, and your pistol and shotgun is also top notch, then I'd really worry about the details of a 16, 18, or 20" barrel.
Just pick a barrel, and start using it to increase your skills. I have seen too many people with race guns finish in the bottom 3rd, and too many people with what would be considered TERRIBLE equipment walk the prize table way ahead of me.
That said - Kelly already nailed it. Most top shooters use a 18" or 20" rifle length gas system barrel. Period. It doesnt mean you need to.... it also depends on how many matches you shoot and the distances, types, etc...
I realized as I painstaking researched this topic... building my 3rd 3-gun rifle.... that these things dont matter all that much until you are running .15 splits and are trying to get to .11
6/14/2011 12:11:28 PM
Thanks- very informative Falarak
Originally Posted By FALARAK:
You can't go wrong. I shoot with a guy who comes in 1st or 2nd at local matches... and shoots a 14.5" with carbine gas and pinned brake.
Choosing your barrel is simple. First - it must meet the accuracy requirements of 3gun. Almost ANY barrel will do that.
Second - it is about recoil management. This has to do with using an efficient muzzle device that controls rearward and upward movement from the firing of the bullet, then reducing reciprocating mass which is secondary movement caused by the buffer and carrier mass stopping at the end of the buffer tube, and the slam into locked position. Increasing the weight of the gun and balancing the gun weight helps with both of these... based on your shooting style. Reducing the gas impulse with an adjustable gas block also helps limit the rearward speed of the mass, especially in conjunction with a lighter buffer and carrier.
I am convinced that if you aren't a TOP shooter, then these smaller factors matter very little compared to actual gun handling skills, accuracy, and stage management. Once you have those areas mastered, and your pistol and shotgun is also top notch, then I'd really worry about the details of a 16, 18, or 20" barrel.
Just pick a barrel, and start using it to increase your skills. I have seen too many people with race guns finish in the bottom 3rd, and too many people with what would be considered TERRIBLE equipment walk the prize table way ahead of me.
That said - Kelly already nailed it. Most top shooters use a 18" or 20" rifle length gas system barrel. Period. It doesnt mean you need to.... it also depends on how many matches you shoot and the distances, types, etc...
I realized as I painstaking researched this topic... building my 3rd 3-gun rifle.... that these things dont matter all that much until you are running .15 splits and are trying to get to .11
Originally Posted By NightHawkIX:
I'm now torn between the 16" WOA and the 18" WOA mid; I'd get them through ADCO and have them fluted full length to shave weight down. Main reason I'm drifting towards the 16" is because this rifle will not be a dedicated 3G rifle; it's meant to be multipurpose (because I don't have the $$ for 5 different AR15s) meaning I need it for everything from home defense to 3G to coyote hunting.
Thoughts?
I'm now torn between the 16" WOA and the 18" WOA mid; I'd get them through ADCO and have them fluted full length to shave weight down. Main reason I'm drifting towards the 16" is because this rifle will not be a dedicated 3G rifle; it's meant to be multipurpose (because I don't have the $$ for 5 different AR15s) meaning I need it for everything from home defense to 3G to coyote hunting.
Thoughts?
You can't go wrong. I shoot with a guy who comes in 1st or 2nd at local matches... and shoots a 14.5" with carbine gas and pinned brake.
Choosing your barrel is simple. First - it must meet the accuracy requirements of 3gun. Almost ANY barrel will do that.
Second - it is about recoil management. This has to do with using an efficient muzzle device that controls rearward and upward movement from the firing of the bullet, then reducing reciprocating mass which is secondary movement caused by the buffer and carrier mass stopping at the end of the buffer tube, and the slam into locked position. Increasing the weight of the gun and balancing the gun weight helps with both of these... based on your shooting style. Reducing the gas impulse with an adjustable gas block also helps limit the rearward speed of the mass, especially in conjunction with a lighter buffer and carrier.
I am convinced that if you aren't a TOP shooter, then these smaller factors matter very little compared to actual gun handling skills, accuracy, and stage management. Once you have those areas mastered, and your pistol and shotgun is also top notch, then I'd really worry about the details of a 16, 18, or 20" barrel.
Just pick a barrel, and start using it to increase your skills. I have seen too many people with race guns finish in the bottom 3rd, and too many people with what would be considered TERRIBLE equipment walk the prize table way ahead of me.
That said - Kelly already nailed it. Most top shooters use a 18" or 20" rifle length gas system barrel. Period. It doesnt mean you need to.... it also depends on how many matches you shoot and the distances, types, etc...
I realized as I painstaking researched this topic... building my 3rd 3-gun rifle.... that these things dont matter all that much until you are running .15 splits and are trying to get to .11
6/14/2011 3:45:52 PM
I ended up getting the WOA SDM 16" SS middy barrel (fluted). Sounds like it'll be a great shooter and light weight at well (1 lb 14oz)
Will give a range report soon as I take her out for a spin.
Will give a range report soon as I take her out for a spin.
