My first AR is for High Power. Rock River or White Oak?

Okay, a little about me first. I've shot a handful of matches with a sweet Garand built by a local High Master. The weapon is more accurate than I, easily! What I've found is that I'm basically BEAT by the end of the match, and my score cards reflect this.

I like what the lighter, lower-recoiling AR has to offer, and finally decided to take the black rifle plunge. I've had a DoubleStar stripped lower sitting in the locker for a while, and just got a RRA LPK w/ the 2-stage NM trigger in the mail today.

Upon researching, I've decided to get either a RRA NM A2 upper, or a WOA upper. I understand that both are top quality items, with the WOA having an edge. My question is: Will the WOA be worth the extra $100 over the RRA **for me**? Adding to that, if YES! (or even HECK YES!) then does the pinned rear sight make the WOA worth $150 more in total **for me**?

Honestly, I've got a long way to go, to use any of these tools (Garand included!) to their max potential, but I want to do it as "right" as I can the first time.

Thanks in advance, for your input!

I shoot Highpower get the White Oak or go with a Compass Lake.

Truely a case of buy once cry once.


Erik

I faced this question about 6 months ago. I went with the white oak upper with the pinned rear. I figured I might as well buy the best the first time.

I shot an RRA national match once, and it was just fine. I am not a good enough shooter to really push these rifles to their potential. However, with such a rifle, with good ammo, you can very quickly figure out what is wrong with your technique.

As far as features between the two, the RRA does not have a windage adjustable sight block. This may or may not be important to you. The consensus among high power shooters on this forum and the national match boards (which I encourage you join) is that white oak barrels are the best value and are perfectly capable of winning. IIRC, John Holliger himself shoots his standard barrels instead of kriegers.

I'm not sure how important the pinned sight is, but in theory it prevents the windage from shifting as you change elevation. I will say that windage is always identical as I move from 200 to 500 yards. Only changes due to wind.

The white oak and the RRA are about the same price. I chose white oak.

Just to add, the rock river NMA2 rifle is $1175 at ADCO.

Here is the cost of a build with the best of the best parts.

White oak upper, pinned. $765
random lower, $100
LPK minus trigger-$40
Geissele high speed-$280
A2 stock-$70

This adds up to $1255 and has superior components to the RRA, most notably the better rear sight, arguably better barrel and most importantly to me, a vastly superior trigger.

YMMV.

ETA: And personally, I found a stock Colt hbar, with 25K rounds down the pipe and crappy 62 grain ammo to be superior to my service grade Garand.

My NM gun is a random lower/LPK with the RRA 2stage NM trigger and a WOA upper, Douglas 1-8" barrel and non-pinned rear sight. From the bench during load testing, it will put 80gr Berger VLDs, 80gr Noslers, and 75gr AMAXs into less than an inch at 100 yds with my starting loads. If I ever shoot out this barrel, I will upgrade to a pinned sight, but I plan to stick with WOA. I've never shot a RRA, but the WOA is a very well built upper.

Thank you for the replies so far! I am leaning toward the WOA, for sure. I'll add this, and hope it's not heresy: I have no immediate plans to load my own ammo. This fact WILL undoubtedly limit my success, until I start reloading. Another attraction of the AR for me is ammo cost.

I saw the WOA at their site for $713, including shipping. I know the pinned rear site adds $50 to that. I've found the RRA complete upper for $605, shipped. I want to get the best I can, but also want to be fair in reporting my capabilities & limitations in using whatever upper I decide to purchase.

FWIW, my brother-in-law has a saying "It doesn't cost but a little bit more, to go First Class." I try to keep that in mind at all times. I know I may not use the full potential of either option, but sometimes I like to know my weapon HAS the most potential. Hope that all makes sense.

Thanks again, keep the input coming!

Darrell

The RRA A2 upper can take you very far in High Power and while the WOA uses a better barrel, my RRA A2 CMP upper is very nice.

What is your current classification?

I also don't load my own ammo. I am a college student who lives in a 400 square foot studio apartment. And my dad likes playing with and tweaking loads so much that no two batches are ever the same. So I buy prvi partizan 75 grain match. I get 1.5 minute groups with it in both my colt and my white oak from the bench at 100 yards. Which leads me to believe the rifles and ammo are capable of more than that.

Prvi partizan ammo was recommended to me on a high power forum. One high master shooter told me he used it during the "ammo crisis" and said that while his X count went down, his scores didn't. In other words, it's perfect ammo for beginners and intermediate shooters, and at 40 cents a round, is a lot cheaper than black hills.

I have a RRA NM A2 complete rifle I bought a couple years ago. I have been very satisfied with it.

It shoots very well for me even with 55 gr FMJ. My range only goes to 300, so I have never shot it at 600. It also piles up the brass real nice 6' away at 2 o'clock, but that is not very important.

The RRA 2-stage trigger is pretty good, I also have a Geiselle SSA, and my RRA has a longer take-up and lighter 1st stage in comparison.

I have never had a malfunction over about 1800 rounds. The aperture is a bit small for me, I shoot an evening league all summer and the .040" is a little dark at 6:30 pm. I fully plan on sending the upper to White Oak for a re-barrel after I shoot this one out. I also shoot the PRVI 75 grains, but did not have very good success with it last match. I had been shooting BH Blue Box 55 fmj and doing pretty well, then I sucked the last match of the year with the Prvi - maybe it was because I did not have zeros before the match.

RedFalconBill,

I'm still a Marksman. I do not shoot very often at all. I've been a member of the gun club for going on four years, and have only shot one or two matches a year. I always seem to make the Jan 31-ish Garand match, but miss the Aug 31-ish ones, due to my birthday.

Our club rotated matches between a range 10 miles away & a range 50 miles away. That changes this year as the further range raised it's rates. The range we use (exclusively, now) has 200 & 300 lines. The other range was a full 600.

My plan (New Year's Resolution) is to shoot at least every other month with the AR. I'd really like to shoot at least once a month, and plan to get there.

I have the RRA NMA2. It is an excellent rifle, and groups 1/2" at 100 yards with my handloads. The WOA uses the same Wilson barrel, but the sights are set up a little better on the WOA. When the barrel is shot out on my RRA, I'll be sending it to John at WOA for the full treatment. I recommend starting out with the WOA.

You can't go wrong with White Oak. His barrels are superb.

I don't think putting on wind when you're trying to dial elevation helps your score, regardless of classification.
Or having a chamber neck that been polished so far it's belled.

Get the WOA and do it right the first time around. "Good enough" is unacceptable.

I agree that the WOA is a better piece of kit and if he can swing the extra money, fine.

Thanks again, gentlemen! I'm ordering the A2 stock kit today, and plan to assemble the lower once it comes in. Then it's just a $$$ waiting game to order the upper & get shooting.

With regards to "putting on wind when you're trying to dial elevation"; I'm assuming this refers to the RRA not having the pinned rear sight available on the WOA. Or is there a noticeable difference between even the standard WOA rear sight & the RRA?

The pinned rear sight tracks straight up and down. I don't know about the standard WOA sight, though. John probably pays more attention to even that than RRA.

Thanks much for the clarification! I'm figuring that I may go ahead & save the extra to get the WOA w/ the pinned sight.

After some more time handling a RRA NM A2, it's possible I'll get that upper. I understand that the WOA & the pinned rear sight may be upgrades, but $150 in ammo & shooting would probably put me well ahead of the curve. As I understand it, the difference between the two brands, in my hands, would be negligible. In that case, improving MY skill by using that money to shoot, would be the greatest benefit. Once I've built my skills, I could have the upper massaged my WOA/WOP, if need be. That could take a season or two...or more.

What are y'alls thoughts on this perspective?

That you're handicapping yourself with your equipment and thus will not see your true potential by buying the lesser quality upper.

You can tell yourself that you'll be ahead in ammo and trigger time, but when you make an elevation change and throw a shot right or left, you won't be sure if it's you or the sight.

Thus, you'll be shooting lower scores and telling yourself you don't deserve the upgrades WOA offers.

Years ago, John at WOP had a special deal for new shooters. He would 'carefully assemble' an RRA NM upper and optionally upgrade it to a pinned rear sight. I think I bought one of the last of those packages, and yes –– I got the pinned sight. The price was pretty comparable to the 'standard' WOA sold now.

I have never regretted it. The rifle pokes holes exactly where I point it, and anything less than a 10/X is MY FAULT. That's a critical thing for a new shooter –– removing any chance of blaming the stupid rifle for my mistakes.

If I was shopping again, I'd head straight for the WOA w/ pins. Without a second thought.

Rick

zia & rk,

Thank you for your experience & sound logic. Honestly, your thinking is exactly the reason I initially considered the pinned WOA over the RRA. I've read enough to understand it's clearly a better setup.

I think that I've been getting into "self doubt" about needing more than the RRA offered, given my current (lack of) skills.

In reflection, if I can afford the WOA when I get the money, why buy less to eventually upgrade a RRA anyway.

I greatly appreciate your insight and hope my wishy-washiness on this hasn't been stupid.

dw

I have ten RRA NM rifles at work and one of my own. I wish I knew of WOA when I made the purchase. One of my staff members bought a WOA upper last year, I'm now planning on sending all of my uppers out for upgrades. Buy once cry once, you'll be very pleased with a WOA upper and have no regrets.

Buy once cry once. WOA w/pinned sights. You will have a platform to build on for many years to come.

I greatly appreciate all the input you guys have given me. I can't wait to get this up & running! I'm waiting on my RRA A2 stock kit to arrive, so I can assemble the lower. Then, it's just getting the funds for the upper.

You are sure a good lot of guys!

Follow-up for all who voted & offered insight. I spoke to John at White Oak on Friday, and placed my order. I ended up going with a WOA post-ban with the .052 front post, 1/4min rear, and the pinned rear sight base. He stated it should be here in 8 weeks.

Thanks!

Good choice.

I bought a RRA NM A2. I am very happy with the rifle. that said if I had a lower sitting around I would pop for the WOA with the pinned sight.

this

You're wise beyond your years! The WOA is the gold standard in my humble opinion.

First of all let me say that I have yet to shoot any Highpower, but plan to in the near future. I have however done business with WOA, purchasing one of their SPR barrels, and their customer service is top notch. John has went out of his way to assist me in the building my SPR. The Vltor gas block I purchased for the build was undersized, I sent it & the barrel to WOA and they custom honed it to fit free of charge.

I'm going to test the Highpower waters this Spring with an Armalite 20" rifle I have. If I enjoy it, and plan on doing more, the first thing I'll be doing is purchasing a Service Rifle upper w/pinned rear sight from WOA.

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