Some of you may have already seen my older and recent posts about “My 54r Vepr Woes” as well as chapter II.  If you think I’m a whiner or ignorant, well, so be it, but bedtime reading if bored (and I’m still open to suggestions).  Here, I’m only just coming to epiphanies, perhaps a decade late.

I’m honestly wondering what the craze was around these back in the day.  Obviously substantial enough and volume on the market for the likes of CSSpecs and others that invested in accessory projects for em.  This is specifically a discussion surrounding my late, 20.5”, 54r, single stack variant.  I was drawn in by all the praise and chatter, great, thicker, accurate barrels and just had to have one before it was “too late” (and now, it apparently is). I paid about $840 which, I felt, was a lot at the time. Mine is from the last batch that Atlantic was selling with the front site at the end of the barrel (not at the gas block).  A guy named Blaine Bunting (very polite) from Atlantic who was “working” the forums, hand-held me through the purchase as they were just coming in and lots of follow up emails asking what I thought and was I satisfied, etc. In fact, it was above and beyond, great pre/post customer support (AAA+ there) for a single end-user.  I didn’t really say so, partly b/c I was pretty “green” at the time (still am?) and it took so long to run it through its paces with glass but, from the day I opened the box I was somewhat disappointed.

I immediately noticed the less-than hardware of the action (bolt/carrier group and piston) all being smaller/thinner/lighter compared to a standard x39 AKM action which I thought strange considering the larger 54r caliber.  At the time I did get it out to the range immediately for function test on a HOT summer day.  After a few boxes of ammo, I was sweating quite a bit and noticed right away that the finish on the factory walnut, thumbhole, buttstock was blistering.  I parked it in the back of the safe and took a couple years before I picked up the IWD stock set, RSRegulate mount, rings, glass, mags, etc.

While the IWD stock set is gorgeous (owner a great guy but RIP) I was really disappointed to lose that major fastening point through the pistol grip into the receiver leaving only two wood screws to connect, one from the inside of the rear of receiver and one through the rear tang.  An attachment that easily loosened up over time and stripped the wood. I was able to have it filled and redrill the holes to secure (for now).

What’s better about these over other 54r or battle rifle caliber AKMs?
•Russian, as-built”, 54r semi-auto (is it better – just because?)
•Decent rear sight with windage adjustment (okay, but I’m old and don’t shoot irons anymore)
•Thicker barrel profile that folks were acknowledging as major plus (no accuracy benefit I’m realizing at this point)
•What else?

What’s not?
•Comparatively light for a “battle rifle” caliber (plus or minus?)
•Light action-hardware combined with being over gassed provides for violent recoil/impulse (at least mine) clearly necessitating a KNS piston.
•Throws spent cases up to 30’
•Loss of pistol grip screw with the IWD stock (okay, not an original design flaw, rather, an IWD non-feature)
•Slant back receiver wi rear tang (fewer aftermarket stock options?)
•Original Thumbhole stock that can’t take a bit of sweat plus it’s just Monte Carlo ugly.
•Gas tube lever is so tight mine is practically mangled from just a few removals
•Stock trigger (mine) is horribly gritty and sticks (yea this can be polished or replaced)
•Barrel nut pinned and welded (plus/minus?).  At least I could cut/remove to access standard threads so as to install a Tabuk-style flash hider
•Front handguard screws into a barrel collar (WTF !!! And why?)  Did anyone consider how this affects barrel harmonics
•Single stack mag/receiver design (blech).  Probably too much trouble to design and engineer a proper double stack mag for 54r

Okay, so, this thing is a Russian built AKM pattern rifle (oooo aaaah) but, I think, an opportunistic/sporter construct in no way approximating anything close to a military quality product. It is now, I guess, a collectible as we’ll never see em again but what is/was the appeal?

Yea, I have my personal accuracy issues with mine which REALLY grates me.  I have a decent collection of 20th century battle rifles and carbines and nothing has given me such disappointment as this.  At this point I’m wondering if I just cut losses and run or keep going.  I haven’t done the math (yet) but likely matching or exceeding the original purchase price with all I’ve chosen to do to it:
•IWD Stock
•Tabuk flash hider
•Five CSSpecs mags
•RSRegulate scope mount
•ARMS #22 rings
•I won’t count the Trijicon AccuPoint scope as it’s a floater
•Stock repair for a weakness that will probably fail again.

And now perhaps
•a KNS piston which I’ll have to pay to have installed and will likely not help with accuracy, rather, simply keep it from shooting itself apart.
•A free float hand guard solution or replace the whole stock set?
•Trigger improvement or replacement.

This is, relatively speaking, an increasingly expensive hobby and I’ve got some disposable income at this point in life.   I pity younger guys getting into this today (a dying market I think).  Back in “the day” I horded up a bit of corrosive, milsurp 54r @ $69ish/tin and was seeking additional rifle variants to enjoy my prudent, modest investment.  Simply put I don’t mind spending money a bit at a time with a quality end in sight but this thing . . . . . ?

In summary:  Mine's seems to be a lemon in ways (maybe it’s not over yet).  At the time I REALLY wish I went wi the .308 (double stack mags).  And maybe they are a different story.  I’ve never seen one nor a x39 version, but I'm pretty disenchanted with what I feel is this sloppy, cheap, light duty, non-military grade, opportunistic construct Molot spit out upon us.  I think the Russian decision makers allowed them to come up with this clearly lesser-than-milspec, consumer product for the Western markets not really for hunter/sporting but the voracious, Combloc, wanna-have-a-Russian fanboys (like me).

A few thoughts…

It’s basically an AK when all is said and done. Meaning that any expectation of thought about barrel harmonics is as reasonable as expecting a Toyota Camry to be designed/executed like a Ferrari. That just isn’t what they do. You gotta adjust your expectations to the product.

As for lighter weight hardware, the argument can be made that AK’s are overweight just to save production costs and it doesn’t actually enhance reliability. Cheaper to shoot a peasant conscript who bitches about the weight of the rifle than to require more milling/machining at the factory, maybe?  So I see a lighter rifle that still maintains reliability as a clear plus, not a negative. Maybe Molot decided to shave unnecessary weight? Is there any experience you’ve had where the rifle is NOT reliable in terms of function?

Regarding heavier barrels… I’m going to mark that up to you being a bit green. The misconception that barrel accuracy is automatically improved by length and/or weight is common. It’s correlation rather than causation. I went a long time believing it myself when I was younger. Without any group sizes to discuss, it’s hard to tell if the rifle is underperforming or your expectations are too high. But I will say that I’d expect a VEPR to outperform the average AK while not matching a generic bolt action rifle. Again, that’s just not what it is. There are lots of SVD owners that wish their rifle was more accurate than it is just so it would match the mystique surrounding the rifle. And the VEPR isn’t even an SVD, right?

I say all this a 5.45 VEPR owner. I love mine for what it is, which isn’t an AR. I wish I had bought two mainly because I don’t want the boys to fight over it when I’m gone. Who knows what it will be worth in another 20-30 years. It is a bit of an heavy pig so I do find it interesting that you describe your 54R version as too light. Mine is a range toy largely because it’s just easier to sling around a 5.56 AR if I really need a rifle in hand for anything serious. But it’s a treasured part of my collection because I just wanted a 5.45 AK.

Thank you for your thoughtful input.

My best AKM pattern x39 rifles, a fresh built TRA Tabuk Sniper and M70B1 both wi brand new barrels (the latter wi Green Mountain) shoot sub 2" groups @ 100yds. The Galil Ace in x39 and .308 are also 2ish" guns.  The Draco SBRs are 4+" guns (i think to be expected) 

Maybe the milspec x39 AKMs are a bit overbuilt or more robust than they need to be but if you look at any other larger caliber DMR type rifles in the AKM profile they all  seem to have the same or proportionately larger action components. At least I can say that about the M76, M77 and PSL. That's why it was kinda eye brow raising the first time I took the Vepr's dust cover off.

I agree that a larger, thicker barrel doesn't automatically mean better performance but all things being equal a thicker barrel should do better than thinner, being stiffer and not heating up as fast.  But barrel harmonics always matter.  I think it's kind of goofy that they designed the 54r to have its handguard screwed directly into a collar installed right behind the front site block.

Lots of folks remark that there's are a very smooth, low recoil rifles. Mine is clearly overgassed as it throws spent casings up to 30ft and felt recoil is pretty jolting. My PSL was the same until I put a KNS piston in it.

Back in the day folks were bragging about how tight their groups were. Just for fun I dug up this old review showing it indeed printing around 2" or better with various commercial ammo. 

https://www.americanrifleman.org/content/molot-vepr-7-62x54r-closeunov-4me-rifle-project/

So I don't think my disappointment with mine proving to be an erratic 4+" gun is unfounded.  

I didn't go into the details of it in the OP but I got a lot of content/comments writing about my bizarre accuracy issues on several other forums.  If you're bored......

https://www.akfiles.com/forums/threads/my-54r-vepr-woes.442967/

https://www.akfiles.com/forums/threads/my-54r-vepr-woes-chapter-ii.544065/

https://www.theakforum.net/threads/my-54r-vepr-woes.321598/#post-3034088

https://www.theakforum.net/threads/my-54r-vepr-woes-chapter-ii.337494/#post-3171612

Again, I've never handled any other version Vepr so interesting to hear that you remark your x39 seems heavy.  Haven't weighed it but the 54R seems light compared to other larger caliber DMRs.

https://www.americanrifleman.org/content/molot-vepr-7-62x54r-closeunov-4me-rifle-project/  

PS: I just reread this guy's review and it's just grates me when somebody posing as a subject matter expert does something as egregious as referring to a flash hider as a brake.  And then repeatedly goes to go so far as to say it reduces felt recoil where a brake, of course, wouldn't.  :-/

I’ll take a look at them.

I can see being disappointed with a 4” gun when a 2” gun was the expectation.  But I also don’t expect 2” groups reliably from an AK generally, particularly given the relative difficulty in getting them glassed well and the ammunition available. I know the internet is chock full of guys that claim to shoot cheap AK’s 1-2 MOA with iron sites but I have yet to meet one in person.  

And there’s always the debate about what exactly constitutes a _____ MOA gun. Does that mean the best group it ever shot was that small? Or does that mean it averages that across multiple ammunitions/loads?

Okay, have read the OP's complaints here and on other forums, and just have this to share:

I jumped on the Vepr bandwagon about 13 years ago now, have owned several in .308 and currently have a 7.62x39. I have read about every thread in every forum about Vepr's and started and contributed to many including a dedicated Vepr forum. I have done every mod imaginable to them in that time and have a huge database about them.

What I have found over all these years, that of the Vepr owners complaining about issues with their rifles, issues mind you not just complaints about furniture, weight etc. Was that 95% of those complaints came from 7.62x54R owners, and the remaining 5% mostly 5.45 owners. I am very serious, I am kinda OCD and I note patterns constantly over long periods of time. I didn't always note the nature of the specific complaints, just added them to my internal tally.

And there just seems that there was always something wonky about Vepr's in x54R, that didn't occur in other models, my .308's have been flawless as has the x39.

The only real difference in the .308's and the 54R is the rimmed case of the 54R, so i've often wondered if that was part of the problem, though it shouldn't have anything to do with accuracy issues OP is having. But the fact remains, the 54R's have by far the most complaints.

Sorry OP, probably doesn't help you much and likely not what you wanted to hear.

If you ever come to SD, give me a shout and we'll go shoot, I have a couple that will shoot sub 2 MOA with any ammo.