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Posted: 7/14/2022 5:56:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: drobs]
https://atlanticfirearms.com/galil-type-galeo-pistol-polymer
Back in 1986 or 1987 I held an original IMI Galil as a small boy at the local gun shop. Have wanted one ever since. Questions: I know it's 223 but it basically is a milled AK. Will this take standard 7.62x39 fire control groups - Tapco G2, Romanian, Yugo, etc? How about a master mount side optics mount? I know potential problems with the charging handle being vertical. https://shop.akoperatorsunionlocal4774.com/AK-Master-Mount-Gen-3-AK-Master-Mount.htm I read there might be some fitting issues with metal 35rd Galil mags. Are the receivers tight? Can I open them with sandpaper / a dremmel? I see some deformed bolts. Are replacement bolts available? Is it just a matter or work hardening? I would like to put a standard Galil folding stock on it. Instead of SBR'ing it, I would like to pin and weld a long flash hider on it. Any recommendations? Would this work or can someone recommend something better? https://www.ebay.com/itm/393953382300 In the short term I plan to swap the buffer tube for a standard tube and use a SBA3 brace. |
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There are galil specific fire controls. The safety is definitely different. Ak triggers can be filed and fitted into galils.
A master mount will mount up. Its a lot more work just getting everything installed, but it'll fit. The issue i had is the galil selector does not want to hop over the screw head for the master mount. So i could only hit safe and full auto, but not the semi position. I thought about milling a shallow slot in the safety to clear the screw head. |
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Originally Posted By giantpune: There are galil specific fire controls. The safety is definitely different. Ak triggers can be filed and fitted into galils. A master mount will mount up. Its a lot more work just getting everything installed, but it'll fit. The issue i had is the galil selector does not want to hop over the screw head for the master mount. So i could only hit safe and full auto, but not the semi position. I thought about milling a shallow slot in the safety to clear the screw head. View Quote Thanks I appreciate the feed back. I'll have some playing to do when I get it in my hands probably Saturday or Monday. Plan to take it completely apart - removing the fire control group and comparing it to my AKM's (built 4 from kits back the in the day). I'm not afraid to open the magazine well if it's too tight for steel mags. |
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The issues i saw with mags was not that the mags didn't fit, but the gun wouldn't feed reliability from surplus mags. And they are only warrantied to run from the included crapco magazine. Those were the initial reports years back, so maybe they fixed the build process by now.
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That brings up a question, are the metal surplus mags different than AK 223 mags?
How about Fire Control Group's will a 223 AK FCG work? I have a feeling this is new old stock @ATLANTIC-FIREARMS |
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As stated before the Galil guts are little different. A standard AK FCG will probably work but may require some fitting.
I have an SAR built on one of those receivers. Mine likes surplus mags. Run great. Accuracy is meh though. I do need to confirm zero on it and shoot it more or just drop an optic on it. |
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I had no major issues using surplus mags in my Galeo rifle. Some mags needed minor fitting on the latch but most worked as is. Don’t let that frustrate you. I also added a surplus bipod and wood foregrip to mine easily.
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Sun, Fun, and Gun
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Ran 4 surplus mags through it. It runs fine BUT it's going back to ATI. The 3rd position works if you know what I'm saying.
Y'all might want to check your 3rd positions... |
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Warranty work.
I just mailed mine back today. And another member recently sent his back. Might want to check your bullet guide. The "work hardening" seems to be from it. Someone in another thread mentioned it, and after I looked at mine and compared it to other pictures it looks like mine was installed incorrectly. There's a gap on the right side. If I had to guess that's why my headspace seems to be on the edge of being ok but really isn't. It's high on the left side and not letting the bolt function correctly and beating the shit out of the carrier like in the other thread. They're suppose throw cases like 20 feet, mines more like 50. If iz you I'd probably but a few hundred rounds through it and see what it looks like. If they send the shit back to me without fixing it I'm buying a case of ammo and doing mag dumps until it fucks up and quits functioning, then send it back and they can replace the bolt and carrier and might actually fix it. Pretty sure that's what would happen by looking at it. The channel on the carrier would get so worked out it wouldn't cycle properly. I see used bolts online and they look nothing like what me and the other member has going on. As far as mags, I picked up some of the new imi rock and lock, and they fit great, also picked up a 50 rounder that is kinda sketchy as far as inserting it. Most of my shooting so far as been with the tapco just because of the warranty thing. |
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I figured out my issue. When they put it together they didn't trim the tab on the safety. When the safety is in the "middle" position on the receiver it pushes the sear or disconnector to the left, allowing the hammer to follow the bolt, with ignition. Oddly controllable ignition...
I need to trim the tab on the safety so it clears the sear. Also finding the chamber is tight. Had 3 Winchester M855 cases torn leaving the head of the brass in the chamber. |
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Originally Posted By Deerhurst: Can't hit a tail if it's not there. Got any pics of inside? View Quote Good point. Everything looks normal / Ak-ish. No rate reducer 3rd pin. I thought they sent me the wrong gun... The springs seem small compared to Romanian G springs. I'll get some pics later. One of the AK building steps, 20 years ago, was to trim the safety. I trimmed all 4 of mine on my Romanian G builds w/ Tapco G2 FCG's. Wondering if I would've had this same issue back then had I not trimmed them and used the original FCG's. |
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Originally Posted By drobs: I figured out my issue. When they put it together they didn't trim the tab on the safety. When the safety is in the "middle" position on the receiver it pushes the sear or disconnector to the left, allowing the hammer to follow the bolt, with ignition. Oddly controllable ignition... I need to trim the tab on the safety so it clears the sear. [color=#ff0000]Also finding the chamber is tight. Had 3 Winchester M855 cases torn leaving the head of the brass in the chamber. View Quote [/color] Are you saying the rim of the case ruptured and the case was stuck in the chamber? That sounds more like the gun is way over gassed (Aks are usually a bit over gassed but ripping off case rims is excessive) - allowing it to open so abruptly it isn't letting enough time for the case to stop expanding in the chamber and its being ripped off by rapid forces. Have you tried it with other ammo? what are the results? |
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Originally Posted By cherenkov: [/color] Are you saying the rim of the case ruptured and the case was stuck in the chamber? That sounds more like the gun is way over gassed (Aks are usually a bit over gassed but ripping off case rims is excessive) - allowing it to open so abruptly it isn't letting enough time for the case to stop expanding in the chamber and its being ripped off by rapid forces. Have you tried it with other ammo? what are the results? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By cherenkov: Originally Posted By drobs: I figured out my issue. When they put it together they didn't trim the tab on the safety. When the safety is in the "middle" position on the receiver it pushes the sear or disconnector to the left, allowing the hammer to follow the bolt, with ignition. Oddly controllable ignition... I need to trim the tab on the safety so it clears the sear. [color=#ff0000]Also finding the chamber is tight. Had 3 Winchester M855 cases torn leaving the head of the brass in the chamber. [/color] Are you saying the rim of the case ruptured and the case was stuck in the chamber? That sounds more like the gun is way over gassed (Aks are usually a bit over gassed but ripping off case rims is excessive) - allowing it to open so abruptly it isn't letting enough time for the case to stop expanding in the chamber and its being ripped off by rapid forces. Have you tried it with other ammo? what are the results? This is what is being left in the chamber. 3x in "full semi-auto" with 62gr Winchester M855: Attached File Tried some Wolf Steel Case - no issues. Tried some Tula Steel Case - 20rds fired and ejected. Next mag, the bolt tore the rim off a fired cartridge case, leaving the complete cartridge case in the chamber. All of my AR15's do the exact same thing with this ammo. I'll try some PMC today. Plus post receiver pics a little later today. |
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Originally Posted By drobs: This is what is being left in the chamber. 3x in "full semi-auto" with 62gr Winchester M855: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/41568/Cut_case_JPG-2456051.JPG Tried some Wolf Steel Case - no issues. Tried some Tula Steel Case - 20rds fired and ejected. Next mag, the bolt tore the rim off a fired cartridge case, leaving the complete cartridge case in the chamber. All of my AR15's do the exact same thing with this ammo. I'll try some PMC today. Plus post receiver pics a little later today. View Quote I'd check the headspace if you can easily get some no go gauges- It may be excessive, allowing the case to not fully seat forward and the case expand / rupture. I am leaning towards excessive/over gassed - either way I would want the factory to take a look at it. The only way it could be over gassed is the gas port is excessive size (hole drilled in the barrel). The larger the hole the more gas comes out of the barrel and hits the piston - too much gas can push the bolt carrier back with excessive power to rip a case off. Steel cased ammo might be fiaring better because steel is stronger than brass to hold together the empty case. If it is excessive headspace they will have to move the barrel backwards a few thousandths to get it to headspace correctly. |
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Originally Posted By cherenkov: I'd check the headspace if you can easily get some no go gauges- It may be excessive, allowing the case to not fully seat forward and the case expand / rupture. I am leaning towards excessive/over gassed - either way I would want the factory to take a look at it. The only way it could be over gassed is the gas port is excessive size (hole drilled in the barrel). The larger the hole the more gas comes out of the barrel and hits the piston - too much gas can push the bolt carrier back with excessive power to rip a case off. Steel cased ammo might be fiaring better because steel is stronger than brass to hold together the empty case. If it is excessive headspace they will have to move the barrel backwards a few thousandths to get it to headspace correctly. View Quote How does that work? I mean the gas port has already been drilled. Is the only option to install a new barrel? |
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Waiting for some parts to come in - replacement disconnector.
Then will trim it. May polish the chamber. I guess I ought to order a couple head spacing gauges. |
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Originally Posted By CPT_CAVEMAN: How does that work? I mean the gas port has already been drilled. Is the only option to install a new barrel? View Quote Perhaps a barrel change if over-gassing alone is the root cause - that would be the most proper way. There are more ways that are not as "professional" for a factory job such as removing the gas block, plugging the old holes and cuts, rotating the barrel and re drilling another hole - and new headspace - That is not the best or easiest way but could work if another barrel isn't easy to source. |
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Originally Posted By drobs: Waiting for some parts to come in - replacement disconnector. Then will trim it. May polish the chamber. I guess I ought to order a couple head spacing gauges. View Quote It wouldn't hurt, the barrels could be a little rough or tight in the throat holding the brass while ejection takes place and rips the case. |
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Originally Posted By drobs: Looks good. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/41568/ATI_Galil_JPG-2464982.JPG View Quote Nice looking gun - that is for sure. The Bonesteel Brace would look the part on that - looks similar to a real Galil stock in shape. |
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Originally Posted By drobs: Looks good. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/41568/ATI_Galil_JPG-2464982.JPG View Quote Nice OP! |
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My LGS has the ATI pistol with a brace and 10 tapco mags for $1100. They are willing to trade my straight up for my Smith 1911 with some wilson upgrades. The tapco mags being very hard to find seems like a good deal. Think I am going to pull the trigger....pun intended.
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Originally Posted By lsufan1971: My LGS has the ATI pistol with a brace and 10 tapco mags for $1100. They are willing to trade my straight up for my Smith 1911 with some wilson upgrades. The tapco mags being very hard to find seems like a good deal. Think I am going to pull the trigger....pun intended. View Quote I cant find Tapco mags anywhere. Pop the top cover, remove the bolt and carrier, & check the disconnector. Does it have a tail seen in the below pic? You'll want to grind that off... https://www.apexgunparts.com/galil-disconnector-spring-vg.html Attached File |
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Picked up a JRA. They also use the original FCG. However they cut more of the tail off the safety selector. The disconnector still has it's full tail in the Jame River Armory Galil. Looking at my ATI, it just needs a smidge more cut off the tail.
Attached File Crazy - all you need is 1 part... |
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Originally Posted By drobs: Picked up a JRA. They also use the original FCG. However they cut more of the tail off the safety selector. The disconnector still has it's full tail in the Jame River Armory Galil. Looking at my ATI, it just needs a smidge more cut off the tail. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/41568/Galil_safety_tail_JPG-2497335.JPG Crazy - all you need is 1 part... View Quote Smart to get a JRA. ATI installed a new barrel and lapped the piss out of my whole gun. Almost all of the finish is off my bolt and bolt tail. Half of the underside of my carrier and where it sits on the rails, also some wear on the rails. But didn't actually get much of where the lugs make contact just hoping since there isn't as much space the left lug will start to wear more and even everything up some. Differently wouldn't buy one again. |
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@drobs
How is this working out? Any bolt peening? |
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In memory of my son Sean James, born 6/25/97. Died 9/16/13.
We will be reunited in heaven. |
@CPT_CAVEMAN
Did they fix yours? Any more issues? Thanks! |
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In memory of my son Sean James, born 6/25/97. Died 9/16/13.
We will be reunited in heaven. |
Originally Posted By firedog51d: @CPT_CAVEMAN Did they fix yours? Any more issues? Thanks! View Quote @firedog51d So ya, after looking at it they had to push the barrel so far back it pushed the gas tube about 1/8-1/4 of an inch past flush. I sent it back, told them exactly what needed to be done and they just cut a new dust cover and sent it back to me. I just decided to fix it myself and had them mail me a new dust cover. I filed and sanded the gas tube and now everything fits decent. The left lug looks to be wearing ok now, so hopefully everything lasts. Definitely wouldn't buy another one. Receivers are really out of spec from what little I know and see from working on mine. |
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Originally Posted By CPT_CAVEMAN: @firedog51d So ya, after looking at it they had to push the barrel so far back it pushed the gas tube about 1/8-1/4 of an inch past flush. I sent it back, told them exactly what needed to be done and they just cut a new dust cover and sent it back to me. I just decided to fix it myself and had them mail me a new dust cover. I filed and sanded the gas tube and now everything fits decent. The left lug looks to be wearing ok now, so hopefully everything lasts. Definitely wouldn't buy another one. Receivers are really out of spec from what little I know and see from working on mine. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By CPT_CAVEMAN: Originally Posted By firedog51d: @CPT_CAVEMAN Did they fix yours? Any more issues? Thanks! @firedog51d So ya, after looking at it they had to push the barrel so far back it pushed the gas tube about 1/8-1/4 of an inch past flush. I sent it back, told them exactly what needed to be done and they just cut a new dust cover and sent it back to me. I just decided to fix it myself and had them mail me a new dust cover. I filed and sanded the gas tube and now everything fits decent. The left lug looks to be wearing ok now, so hopefully everything lasts. Definitely wouldn't buy another one. Receivers are really out of spec from what little I know and see from working on mine. thanks for the info. |
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In memory of my son Sean James, born 6/25/97. Died 9/16/13.
We will be reunited in heaven. |
Haven't noticed any bolt peening. I ran 6 surplus mags through it this afternoon. Had 3 failures to eject. I'm going to have to start marking mags.
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Mine took a shit after 220 rounds. Headspace was out of spec after I submitted Form1. SBR approval came back in 7 days. Gun was sent back to ATI. Came backed fixed but with more HS that I would like to see.
I would not do it again. Now I have SBR that is suspect at best. I’m afraid to put too many rounds through it. Don’t do it!!!! |
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Originally Posted By unrock: Mine took a shit after 220 rounds. Headspace was out of spec after I submitted Form1. SBR approval came back in 7 days. Gun was sent back to ATI. Came backed fixed but with more HS that I would like to see. I would not do it again. Now I have SBR that is suspect at best. I’m afraid to put too many rounds through it. Don’t do it!!!! View Quote Was it in spec before? I doubt many of us would rush out and buy gauges and check for a new gun that should be in spec - But curious what happened - Was it in spec or asymptomatic /no apparent problems and then had some failures related to excessive headspace? Too bad, I had thought of these pistols when I see the price hovering around what a receiver and kit would cost. I wonder how it would stretch so much. The bolts should be good steel, they are threaded barrels, |
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I just bought one today and I hope I dont run into issues. Got a good deal on it, I think....delivered sub 1K. Hoping I aint gettin hosed....
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0311 0369 8152 3P0X1B
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Originally Posted By drobs: I really don't do round counts but I'd guess just under 500rds. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By drobs: Originally Posted By CPT_CAVEMAN: How many rounds total do you have through it? I really don't do round counts but I'd guess just under 500rds. If I read the thread correctly you have not had issues with yours, other than the minor ones you self corrected, right? |
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0311 0369 8152 3P0X1B
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A question for you guys who are having issues, what were the signs? Any pics or did I miss them?
I looked at that used one again. It had no obvious bolt peening, lungs looked good w/uniform wear, hand cycled well. I would 1K out the door but it might be worth it w/the extras. |
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In memory of my son Sean James, born 6/25/97. Died 9/16/13.
We will be reunited in heaven. |
Mine ran fine for about 180 rounds with all the mags. It started to FTFs and FTEs every 5 to 10 rounds after that.
It swallowed field gage with the original bolt. I took the bolt out of my IWI ACE and bolt would not close on NO Go. End up running 40 rounds without any issues. The gun went back to ATI next day. The signs aren’t typically visible. The right receiver lug usually shows abnormal ware. But very difficult to spot with naked eye. I would buy for $500 another wise not worth the hassle. New one run about $1K and you can send back for warranty work. |
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Thanks for the info.
I think I will pass on these and build a kit build instead or look for something else. |
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Originally Posted By firedog51d: A question for you guys who are having issues, what were the signs? Any pics or did I miss them? I looked at that used one again. It had no obvious bolt peening, lungs looked good w/uniform wear, hand cycled well. I would 1K out the door but it might be worth it w/the extras. View Quote It's not the bolt. It's the channels/lugs on the receiver. Mine was exactly like unrock. Right channel wear a crap ton in about a few hundred rounds which caused FTE issues and abnormal wear. Strip the bolt out of the carrier and lock it into battery in the receiver. Bet it sits at an angle, like the right lug/channel is too short. |
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Attached File
Attached File Attached File Pics after shooting mine the other day. Note the fired casing in the action... |
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Originally Posted By drobs: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/41568/20221027_082233_jpg-2577678.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/41568/20221027_082240_jpg-2577681.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/41568/20221027_082302_jpg-2577685.JPG Pics after shooting mine the other day. Note the fired casing in the action... View Quote Is it pressing up against your ejector? From the pic it looks like there is a bunch of space between the action/right bolt lug and the receiver. Attached File Attached File |
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Originally Posted By CPT_CAVEMAN: It's not the bolt. It's the channels/lugs on the receiver. Mine was exactly like unrock. Right channel wear a crap ton in about a few hundred rounds which caused FTE issues and abnormal wear. Strip the bolt out of the carrier and lock it into battery in the receiver. Bet it sits at an angle, like the right lug/channel is too short. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By CPT_CAVEMAN: Originally Posted By firedog51d: A question for you guys who are having issues, what were the signs? Any pics or did I miss them? I looked at that used one again. It had no obvious bolt peening, lungs looked good w/uniform wear, hand cycled well. I would 1K out the door but it might be worth it w/the extras. It's not the bolt. It's the channels/lugs on the receiver. Mine was exactly like unrock. Right channel wear a crap ton in about a few hundred rounds which caused FTE issues and abnormal wear. Strip the bolt out of the carrier and lock it into battery in the receiver. Bet it sits at an angle, like the right lug/channel is too short. |
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In memory of my son Sean James, born 6/25/97. Died 9/16/13.
We will be reunited in heaven. |
Originally Posted By firedog51d: Can that be fixed by hand or does it need to go to a shop? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By firedog51d: Originally Posted By CPT_CAVEMAN: Originally Posted By firedog51d: A question for you guys who are having issues, what were the signs? Any pics or did I miss them? I looked at that used one again. It had no obvious bolt peening, lungs looked good w/uniform wear, hand cycled well. I would 1K out the door but it might be worth it w/the extras. It's not the bolt. It's the channels/lugs on the receiver. Mine was exactly like unrock. Right channel wear a crap ton in about a few hundred rounds which caused FTE issues and abnormal wear. Strip the bolt out of the carrier and lock it into battery in the receiver. Bet it sits at an angle, like the right lug/channel is too short. Not an expert, but would think it needs to go back to the shop if it's bad enough. Need to get the opposite channel/lug to wear somehow to balance it out, would think anyway. My bigger concern for mine is the ejector wearing so much it no longer ejects or isn't reliable. Can always install another barrel and bolt in the future, but not sure you can fix a worn ejector |
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that is alot of work to fix... If you are getting contact on the left lug and have a 020-.030 gap on the right receiver lug...remachine the left receiver lug, now the bolt rotation timing likely needs to be advanced (bullet guide moved rearward). Headspace will now be .020 .030 over nogo, new barrel or old (if you get lucky) will likely need the shoulder turned down to headspace properly. (Headspace guages are a must for any US galil clone owner....never trust a clone....ever....dont shoot them till you understand how to use them either....the guy that built it likely doesnt, so do not assume he does....and keep checking it as your round count increases)
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I ground some more off the flag (above red line) on the selector. Now it's fully semi-auto...
Attached File I didn't want to remove the FCG to cut the tail of the disconnector as the spring configuration looks complex. I have problems replacing shepherd's hooks in standard AKM's. Originally Posted By CPT_CAVEMAN: Is it (the bolt) pressing up against your ejector? View Quote The bolt stem is resting on the ejector but it's level (not on angle / pressing up): Attached File "From the pic it looks like there is a bunch of space between the action/right bolt lug and the receiver." Attached File Attached File Attached File I'll shoot some more mags though it in the next couple of days. I hate wasting ammo on malfunctioning guns but this one seems to be running ok-ish. My $300 PSA AR15's feed fire and eject better but they have new production magazines. |
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