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Posted: 10/28/2005 8:55:01 AM EDT
[#1]
Yes I can use BAC (which is what you are describing) too when I move. However I dont know of any 1.5X scopes that are bright enough to do BAC in daylight and I get all jacked up in the head if I pop my flashlight have the reticle turned low enough that is turns black indoors with a flash light. I loose the reticle and have to look through either the scope or the non dominat eye but not both to see the world or the reticle. BAC is also harder for me as the magnification drops below 2X and approaches 1X because I am "temped" to start looking through the scope and focus on that instead of using both eyes BAC style. I expect items to transition into the scopes FOV as I swing onto target and there is a lag where there is nothing in my scopes FOV and I am no longer looking with my non dominant eye as the image trasitions over the superimposed magnified view. Its still visable with the non dominant eye behind the edge of my scopes FOV but I am using the dominant eye to look for the target and the target is not in the scopes FOV. Does that make sense? With a 1X minimum power scope it is like the scope does not exist. Its like an EOtech so long as my head is in the right spot. The scope body is traslucent dark ring I can see through and the reticle just floats out there in space.... until I get inside 10 feet and the dominant eye is seeing things from a point 1 foot closer than the non dominant eye. I am gonna shut up now... my head hurts. |
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Posted: 10/28/2005 6:38:54 PM EDT
[#2]
Hi Grant I hope you do not mind my input.
The IOR are very good also very strong.  Up 1. Cost 2. FOV 3. Ranging reticle 4. Glass is nice Down 1. Illumination not visible in full sun 2. Reticle busy 3. Weight Leupold  Up 1. Cost 2. FOV 3. Ranging reticle Down 1. Illumination not visible in full sun 2. 1.5x I like the USO SN-4, S&B, and the Trijicon TR21. I have not used the Talon What I would like to see is 1.5-x6 w/ small bell and a red dot like Aimpoint. Mike @ CSGW www.csgunworks.com [email protected] |
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Posted: 10/28/2005 8:07:56 PM EDT
[#3]
Thanks Mike.
C4 |
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Posted: 10/28/2005 8:40:24 PM EDT
[#4]
what model Leupold is this?
I was looking for a 1.5x-4x leupold model that was illuminated, but couldn't manage to do so. please do tell the model number and where you can locate one. I tried a link in the csgunworks.com website, but wasn't able to locate this optic in there. what is it? is it a Mark 4 1.5x-5x 20mm PRS (with illumination?) I've been trying to find one... can't. tweeter |
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Posted: 10/29/2005 6:03:07 AM EDT
[#5]
Dennys recon with topped with a Leupy 1.5X5 MRT / Larue SPR combo..(same scope as uin your pic)......with the Leupy 77gr. Mk.262 turret......
   latest version in OD  Leupy retical shot illum.  sorry.......not the best photog. in the world..........  |
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Posted: 10/29/2005 7:27:06 AM EDT
[#6]
Beware..I love that setup!!
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Posted: 10/29/2005 11:34:30 AM EDT
[#7]
tweeter
They are a Leupold MRT M2 we have them in stock I believe G&R sales them also.  They are under OPTICS/SIGHTS then under scopes/sights www.csgunworks.com [email protected] Here’s some testimonials about CS GunWorks for AR15 Board What do YOU have to say about CS GunWorks |
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Posted: 10/29/2005 4:37:45 PM EDT
[#8]
what's the eye relief on that scope? Also what do we say on Accupoint vs Loopy 1.5x5 MRT??? (in terms of price, eye relief and reticle....) one of these is going on my KKF M17S........ I think I want the loopy, but it might come down to price alone... but then again, that SPR reticle CALLS TO MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEe..... |
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Posted: 10/29/2005 4:47:26 PM EDT
[#9]
Just off the top of my head, the Accupoint has the Loopy beat on cost and eye relief. It is also going to have it beat on battery life (doesn't need one) and will also be brighter in full sun than the Loopy. As a fellow M17S owner (modified by KKF) I would say that a precision optic on this weapon is a waste (IMHO). C4 |
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Posted: 10/29/2005 5:13:06 PM EDT
[#10]
Mine is the full kkf too. what would you put on it? so far I have LMT fornt and rear buis on it, but I'm thinking a 20" barrel is capable of greater range , am I wrong? |
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Posted: 10/29/2005 6:03:21 PM EDT
[#11]
The barrel is chrome lined BM with a crappy trigger. The best I would put on it is a 2X compact ACOG. An Aimpoint or EOTech will be your best choice IMHO. Remember, that barrel length does NOT equal accuracy. C4 |
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Posted: 10/29/2005 6:06:54 PM EDT
[#12]
trigger is bullpup bad but I expectedd worse. thing with compact acog is I dunno if 3.6" is enough eye relief.
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Posted: 10/29/2005 6:10:09 PM EDT
[#13]
It is (have tried it already).  C4 |
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Posted: 10/29/2005 6:11:29 PM EDT
[#14]
btw:   think the compact acog on a larue mount would clear the buis? |
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Posted: 10/29/2005 6:15:42 PM EDT
[#15]
Looks nice! The ACOG in a LT Compact ACOG mount will clear the FS I think, but will block a good portion of your FOV. C4 |
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Posted: 10/29/2005 6:25:51 PM EDT
[#16]
Kinda lost here. Maybe I'll just get a cheap scout scope and mount it way forward. that was my original plan, but the person who told me not to didn't realize the KKF rail goes all teh way to the front. so what other low power scopes have more htan 3.6" of eye relief? |
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Posted: 10/29/2005 6:29:23 PM EDT
[#17]
The Accupoint has almost 5" of eye relief. I will say again that putting a precision optic on a M17S is kind of a waste. C4 |
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Posted: 10/29/2005 6:33:36 PM EDT
[#18]
hows this for a hijcak by the way  but seriously, nothing else can give me that kind of eye relief... I was about to blow 690 on a compact acog when i realized its was the short eye relief model, so I guess I'm willing to sepnd that on this scope.... worse comes to worse, I have other rifles it can go on...... what's your price on the amber (I'm colorblind and love trijicon amber) no mount? |
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Posted: 10/29/2005 6:55:09 PM EDT
[#19]
IM sent on price.
C4 |
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Posted: 10/29/2005 8:57:10 PM EDT
[#20]
I lost the IM cause I'm an idiot.
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Posted: 10/30/2005 4:41:23 AM EDT
[#21]
Roger. Sent another. C4 |
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Posted: 10/30/2005 7:34:39 AM EDT
[#22]
Thanks! I started looking for this and all of a sudden the velvet ropes at Google part and i'm getting all sorts of good news about it. The fine folks at Leupold even make custom turrets for my crappy issue rounds too... how's that for accomodating? seriously, thanks for the info. tweeter |
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Posted: 10/30/2005 8:13:27 AM EDT
[#23]
S&B Zenith 1.5-6x42 (bell not THAT small though) has the same flash dot of the Short Dot. |
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Posted: 10/30/2005 9:19:59 AM EDT
[#24]
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Posted: 10/30/2005 10:49:45 AM EDT
[#25]
Grant,
I just ordered this optic and mount from you, and will have a setup like you show here on your website. Looks like you still have room for the Troy rear sight to flip up with the optic in place. Can you cowitness with this setup? I also noticed in your photos with the S&B, that it ends up being mounted with the objective over the Troy sight, so you cannot flip up the BUIS. Why the different installations with the two similar optics? Thanks, MFer 
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Posted: 10/30/2005 3:16:16 PM EDT
[#26]
Nope it's the 1.1–4 x 20 CQB Short Dot Police Marksman II Link Here |
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Posted: 10/30/2005 3:19:32 PM EDT
[#27]
You cannot co-witness with ANY optic. The only way an optic would become non-functional is if it broke. You would then seek cover and throw the levers on the LT SPR mount and flip the TROY. C4 |
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Posted: 10/30/2005 3:46:23 PM EDT
[#28]
grant, I went with a used accupoint. I didn't pay too much, don't worry. I'm probably gonna run it most at 1.25 , but I can't wait to try and prove you wrong at 4x! My trigger rolls long, but snaps clean. no comaplints! now I just need rings.
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Posted: 10/30/2005 6:30:45 PM EDT
[#29]
1.1–4 x 20 CQB Short Dot Police Marksman II www.schmidtbender.com/scopes_policemarksman.shtml It's not the same as the flashdot. |
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Posted: 10/31/2005 10:50:06 AM EDT
[#30]
I just ordered the Talon from Grant. (Thanks for the deal
 ) I'll post my comments once I receive it. |
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Posted: 11/7/2005 4:18:43 PM EDT
[#31]
Does anyone know anything about the scope below???
"The new S&B 1.1-4x24 Zenith LE3 will be in the second focal plane and the dot coverage will be almost the same on 1.1 power at 15.9cm which equals 6.25" or 6MOA at 100 meters but decreases down to 4cm or 1.57" diameter at 100 meters."  C4 |
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Posted: 11/8/2005 1:40:43 AM EDT
[#32]
So Grant, are you saying that the dot gets smaller as you zoom the power up to 4x??? huh... If so, I guess you just gave me something to save up to buy NEXT year.  |
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Posted: 11/8/2005 3:29:31 AM EDT
[#33]
That's what the nice folks at S&B are telling me. C4 |
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Posted: 11/8/2005 4:49:46 AM EDT
[#34]
Oh wait a minute - I was still half asleep when I read that before. I get it now. It doesn't "get smaller", it just doesn't zoom up bigger with the image viewed through the scope 'cause it's 2nd focal plane, right? Interesting. Looks like there will be at least one person here at arfcom that will have one less thing to gripe about. |
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Posted: 11/8/2005 5:07:56 AM EDT
[#35]
LOL, that is correct. C4 |
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Posted: 11/8/2005 6:38:28 AM EDT
[#36]
Did they supply any specs on the reticle options? |
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Posted: 11/8/2005 6:50:37 AM EDT
[#37]
Ah, the irony!
I recall, perhaps a couple of years ago, when I started posting here. I posted a message in the "best general purpose" scope for ARs topic and got roasted for suggesting low-powered variable scopes. The times, they are a changin'. 
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Posted: 11/8/2005 7:14:32 AM EDT
[#38]
Yes, S&B did. MAP on this optic is $2099. C4 |
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Posted: 11/8/2005 10:13:38 AM EDT
[#39]
Can anyone tell me if the IOR Valdada 1.1 - 4 x 20 is a first focal plane or second focal plane reticle? If second can you tell me what power you use for range finding? Seems like a nice scope and good quality for a good price but I want more info before I drop the money.
Jared |
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Posted: 11/9/2005 9:05:05 AM EDT
[#40]
I've seen the all the creature features of the S&B, but are there any threads or links to the ins and outs working with this optic?
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Posted: 11/9/2005 9:21:42 AM EDT
[#41]
Not sure what you mean by "ins and outs" of working with the S&B. C4 |
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Posted: 11/9/2005 9:59:02 AM EDT
[#42]
It's pretty straight forward when using it from 100 yards or so in, but I didn't see much on their website or product information on how to use it for longer distances. If you're familiar with long range shooting with optics, I guess it's not so foreign, but if not, there isn't much available from the manufacturer to guide shooters. It came with two 8X11 sheets of paper for specs and zeroing adjustments, but that's it.
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Posted: 11/9/2005 11:29:19 AM EDT
[#43]
The scope as a BDC turret
It has a mil reticle pattern I'm not sure what the issue is? Two of my buddies (who are not shooter shooters) figured out the Short Dots in short order at the range. |
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Posted: 11/9/2005 12:07:19 PM EDT
[#44]
One source of information regarding the use of Mil radians can be found in the book titled "The Ultimate Sniper" by MAJ John L Plaster USAR (RET)
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Posted: 11/9/2005 4:39:22 PM EDT
[#45]
I think that I am pretty much sold on the S&B, (Im going to pick one up when I get my fat check from the sandbox) the only problem is what type of upper should I put it on? 16in midlength CL, or Noveske 16in SS? Idealy I want a 16in CL middy, that is as acurate as the Noveskee. ( a guy can wish, cant he?) That is the question?
RemMan |
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Posted: 11/9/2005 4:46:59 PM EDT
[#46]
Wait until Noveske starts doing CL type stuff with their barrels.
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Posted: 11/9/2005 5:03:47 PM EDT
[#47]
Seriously, I didn't realize that Mr. Noveske was going to go that path! Very cool.  RemMan |
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Posted: 11/9/2005 6:39:51 PM EDT
[#48]
I went with a PacNor polygonal (same as Noveske uses) ABS barrel. It uses a lining that does not decrease accuracy yet has better wear and corrosion protection than hard chrome. No need to wish. Its more durable than a hard chrome lined barrel and as accuate as the Noveske. Oh yeah it handles heat better than an HBAR while being lighter than a pencil barrel too. Still saving pennies for a Short Dot. |
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Posted: 11/9/2005 7:42:24 PM EDT
[#49]
im sent |
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Posted: 11/13/2005 10:05:07 PM EDT
[#50]
low-illumination BAC in bright light issue:
if you have flip-covers, close the objective cover. the otherwise hard-to-see reticle will glow nice and bright. |
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