User Panel
Posted: 11/21/2005 2:40:14 PM EDT
Hi Guys and Gals!
A few weeks ago I promised to keep the ARFCOM Family informed of some of my future T&E projects and these are a few I started working with for a future issue of Small Arms Review. The first pic is the STAG-15L (Left-Handed AR15) I am working with, and if you look close you will notice some NATEC PCA ammo in the background that I am also testing. In the second pic there is something many of you will be excited about. This has been talked about but these photos are completely an ARFCOM Exclusive. I just shot them and have not posted them anywhere. Look real close and you will notice this is nota “regular” AR15 style lower receiver. It is the new one from MGI Military that uses interchangeable magazine wells to accommodate several calibers. I will have a complete MGI system here Wednesday to start working with. MGI QCB Upper, MGI Lower (with .223 mag-well and 7.92x39 mag-well) several barrels, MGI Rate reducing buffer, D-Fender D Ring, etc. The whole package. Much more to come but this is all I can talk about right now. Stay tuned! Jeff W. Zimba Production Manager Small Arms Review Magazine ARFCOM Industry Partner |
|
Good stuff.
I really enjoy reading SAR, thanks for the exclusives. |
|
what are those plastic and/or painted rifle rounds underneath the gun in the first pic?
|
|
"and if you look close you will notice some NATEC PCA ammo in the background that I am also testing." BTW- My brother-in-law has been shooting a fair amount of the NATEC ammo and so far it's performed pretty well. Not as "hot" as the XM193 we usually shoot but it works and is noticeably lighter. |
|
|
Huge +1!!! Thanks!! |
|
|
wow, just when you thought you saw it all... boom something new.
great stuff! |
|
MGI.. Bangor, ME. Thats my old hometown! who are they? never heard of them.
|
|
I like that lower and I'm interested in the ammo, but what I'm curious about, is it's cost.
|
|
Here's a sampler pack, kinda pricey to me compared to the Winchester value packs. Thinking about trying it out but not sure about the company who shows it for sale. sampler pack |
|
|
Will the MGI be able to change to .308 or other larger calibers?
|
|
I assume the NATEC ammo performed less than admirably, as is often the case, no?
Justin |
|
With machining a whole new upper for lefties, I wonder why Stag didnt machine the notch for the charging handle on the opposite side, and make new left handed charging handles?
|
|
Well according to the last issue of Shotgun News COBB Manufacturing is building a semi auto AR that will shoot .308, 30'06 etc etc. with modular mag wells. The COBB AR has the same set up ast the MGI. The article list every thing from 9mm to 30 '06. |
|
|
A great day at the range! As you can see in this pic it was a "little" colder than it was a week ago. On Monday it was almost 70 degrees and on Friday it never rose above freezing. That's kind of cool anyway because it allows some great cold weather testing conditions. Anyway, on to the good stuff. The NATEC Polymer Cased Ammo ran great, even in these conditions. I ran it in 4 different guns, shot off-hand groups, ran it through the chrono and ran it on the PACT Timer to measure Rate of Fire. That's right ladies and gentlemen, this stuff ran through my 11.5-inch M16 without a hiccup! The STAG15L was the balls too. It is cool enough to "almost" wish you were a southpaw so you would have a reason to buy one. Actually people like us don't really need reasons to buy anything I guess. ;) Shooting it right-handed I learned the importance of the brass deflector. It was weird to have brass piling up behind the left shoulder of the shooter..... Those guys put some major time and energy into redesigning the bolt, bolt carrier and obviously the upper. Nice job. The details on both pieces will be in the March issue of Small Arms Review. I hope you enjoy the heads-up. Thanks for the great work Team ARFCOM. I hope to see many of you at the SAR Show in Phoenix! Jeff Z |
|
good question |
|
|
Intersesting, Shotgun News has an article in Nov 20th edition reviewing Cobb Manufacturing's interchangeable magazine well AR platform rifle. Looks like more than one in the industry is focusing some design effort on this idea.
|
|
Kinda :) It is a Small Arms Research converted RRA RR. Jeff Z 07/SOT :) |
|
|
www.mgimilitary.com/ Never heard of Mack Gwinn? |
|
|
Cause this is something that doesn't make a real difference. BTW, I posted some pictures of my lefty Stag in the M4gery picture thread. It works great. |
||
|
It seems like your experience with this ammo contradicts just about everything I've ever read about it, including some reviews posted here. Perhaps NATEC has modified it recently? Justin |
|
|
|
Now what would be really nice would be if someone made an entirely left handed shooter friendly AR. The biggest thing being the lower. All the controls are still where they should be for a right handed shooter not a lefty on all the "lefty" ARs I've ever seen. It can't be that hard to "mirror" an AR lower to make a turly left handed AR15 can it be? On the NATC ammo, did you run into any "melting neck" issues at all? How fast did you shoot the stuff? I picked up 500 rounds of it and I had issues when I started shooting fast with it. the necks would start melting a little here a little there and after a little bit polymer started building up then nothing but problems. If yer not shooting fast and heavy the stuff seems to be great, but once you really start heating up the gun it becomes crap IMO. |
|
|
You mean like on Sully's rifles? |
|
|
If you look at all the parts Stag had to mirror, it was quite a good bit, considering there is always the question of will there be enough interest to make $$$. They made a good quality product, that filled a niche, and for a reasonable price. They do have ambi safeties and the ambi mag release(Norgon) available as options to make the lower very lefty friendly. I got both of those when I got my stag upper. All thats left is the bolt release, which I actually like being on the side that it is. And the charging handle, which hasn't been an issue for me. A tac latch might help with that. |
|
|
I've got to say that I was disappointed in the way the MPI portion of the Bushmaster article was written (Page 37 2nd paragraph). It talked about 100% of Bushmaster weapons being checked for headspace, after comparing the Magnetic Particle Testing of Colt and Bushmaster. I think it leads the reader to conclude Bushmaster conducts the same tests that Colt does, which as far as I know is not correct.
I also took issue with NJSP being brought up and blamed for the weapon laws in NJ (page 66 2nd paragraph). The blame for those laws falls on the elected representatives of that state, and those who voted for them. Blaming the police for laws is like blaming firearm companies for crimes, it simply isn't true. I get back to Picatinny from time to time, and don't enjoy the firearm law they have enacted in their state, but it doesn't make me blame NJSP. Go find the widow's of Trooper Scott Gonzalez or Trooper Phil Lamonaco and let them know your opinion. I've read two articles so far, and I'm hoping the rest of the magazine is going to be different. I've been please with my subscription thus far, so take my comments as you will. |
|
The police don't have to enfore any firearms laws. They are a cop by choice. They are enforing an unconsitiutuional law and are just as guilty of high treason and striping away a God given human right. When they pull somebody over, they can turn a blind eye to that "illegal" 30 rd magazine in the back seat of the car. There is a difference between right/wrong and legal/illegal. |
|
|
I have no idea what you do not believe to be correct here. I read that paragraph and then I re-read it, and that is exactly the process as described to me. The Bushmaster barrels all undergo Magnetic Particle Testing and are checked again with an Eddy Current prior to acceptance for inventory either for sale or assembly. There may be something else or different that happens at Colt but the article is focusing on Bushmaster and I have not been invited to the Colt facility to document manufacturing methods. Is there something I still don't understand or were you under the impression that Bushmaster did not utilize Magnetic Particle Testing along with the Eddy Current testing? I guess I am a little confused at what you find inaccurate.
I didn't write that piece so I can't help you with this one. Sorry 'bout that.
Thanks Stickman. Really. I hope you do enjoy SAR and know that I value readers comments very much. Thanks for taking the time to drop a post and I hope we can clear up the barrel statement. Jeff Z |
|||
|
EDITED- I missed the above post, so my comment made no sense.....
|
|
Bushmaster has stated publicly on this board that they only MP test samples of each barrel lot - they do not test each and every barrel. So MP testing is used, just not on every barrel. |
|
|
I never had any melting issues at all and I did spend some time doing 20-round mag dumps in my 11.5-inch M16 at a cyclic rate of over 850 rpm. Two things to take into consideration may be that there was usually a few minutes between each "4 magazine run" and that I was conducting the tests at around 20 degrees F (12 degrees below freezing). ;) Between magazine dumps I had to record the data from the PACT Timer so that would allow for a little cooling time, especially at those temperatures. Something that was a big, giant bummer was this, and some of you guys may get a chuckle out of it. I had loaded a NATEC PCA, BETA C-Mag days before this range time was scheduled, in anticipation of doing a C-Mag Dump with this ammo. At that point I didn't even know if it woud run in FA but I had high hopes I guess. So during the testing and wanting to save "the best for last" I did all my full auto shooting towards the end of the range session. After I found out it runs fine I was psyched and couldn't wait to do the 100 round dump. I shot and recorded a bunch of strings with a couple kinds of ammo recording the differences and duplicated them with an MGI Rate Reducing Buffer and recorded the data with that as well. Now, something you have to unnderstand is this particular M16 has a serious gas port errosion problem from all the excessive torture I put it through on a regular basis. Because of this, with some good hot ammo it revs up to almost 1100 rounds per minute with the stock buffer. Being a guy who likes loud noises and fast guns and big flames I had to get a few 30-round mag dumps out of my system at high speed since the light was starting to get low and the muzzle-flash would be awesome. I uninstalled the MGI Buffer and replaced it with the factory one. I slapped a few 30-rounders of the old 55-grain Norinco in my pocket and stepped up to the line. Several seconds later the mags were empty, I was part blind, smiling like a kid on Christmas morning and my trigger finger was killing me. Running so fast really slaps the hell out of the sear and trigger but hey, no pain no gain. right? ;) Anyway, I put everything else away, let everything else cool down and get ready for my "Grand Fanille" which is goingto be a 100-round dump with the NATEK ammo. At this point the truck is completely loaded, idiling, and all I have out is the 16, the BETA Mag and my hearing protection. I step up to the line, charge the rifle, place the selector on fulland BANG, click. What to hell is BANG, click? I pulled back on the charging handle and eject a live round, chambered with no primer strike but the hammer is already forward. Weird I thought. Charge it again, BANG, click. Now I was scratching my head. I cleared the gun, dropped the magazine and broke the lower off the upper to discover that I had no rear half of the sear and the hammer was just following the bolt carrier home. BUMMER! The last few 30-round, high speed mag dumps myst have broken it when I felt the excessive finger slap. What a letdown!!!! Now here I am with a loaded C-Mag (less 2 rounds) and the necessity to go back to the range to "let 'er rip." :) Jeff Z |
|
|
That was my understanding as well, and I don't think the article reflected that. Its not the end of the world, but I wished the clarification could have been made in the article along with giving Bushmaster a chance to explain their reasoning. I understand you didn't write the other portion, but feel free to print it out and drop it on the desk of the guy who did. |
||
|
It was my understanding that ALL Bushmaster barrels were Magnetic Particle Tested AND Eddy Current tested, so if there is any misunderstanding it may be that. I'll find out tomorrow for certain (if time allows) and post back here as soon as I get the scoop. Thanks for the heads-up. Gotta keep it straight out here you know. :)
Jeff Z |
|
That was what it seemed like in the article, which was different than what I had heard here numerous times. Clarification from them would be great, thankyou.
|
|
I just received the answer from Bushmaster and the information I received for the article was indeed correct. All their barrels are Magnetic Particle Tested and not just a sampling. I hope this helps to clear up any confusion there may have been in the past.
Jeff Z |
|
Jeff, Did Bushmaster say when they started to do this? -Forest |
|
|
Thankyou for the update! This is going to hurt a lot of Colt owners feelings, it was a big deal to them that only Colt did this. Blah blah blah yes I'm a Colt owner...... |
|
|
I'd also be interested to know the anser to Forest's question. |
||
|
On the subject of your Jan '06 issue, I am not sure whether to congratulate you on your coverage of the NDIA reporting, the Bushmaster tour coverage, or your first hand sightings of the XM307/XM320 air-burst/.50 bmg, or the SASS entries. (and HK goodies, and JSSAP lightweight...etc etc...)
On a side note, the camo-wrap looks interesting, and since the Army bought it I guess the "melt" questions are moot. Great reads, and well done............................again. |
|
+2 Inquiring minds and all. WIZZO |
|||
|
Thanks for the nice words from some of you. :)
I will ask about the timeline on this but it may be a while before I can get back to visit or check my e-mail. I'll be doing the SAR SHOW in Phoenix over the next few days so I'll be a little tied up with my "spare" time. I hope to see some of you there! Jeff Z |
|
Hey Jeff, did you get any trigger time on the .499 LW? |
|
|
It will indeed be a blow to many Colt owners who hang their hat on this particular subject. But they'll come back with - "But do they shot peen and MP the bolts????" Colt owners.....................................so predictable. |
||
|
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.