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Posted: 5/23/2004 6:33:09 AM EDT
[#1]
They use their throw lever on all their products so naturally it is on there. The throw lever is just as strong as any other mounting option. The LaRue BUIS is not made to work with scope or ACOG's. It is for Aimpoints and EOTech's. So while your looking for your lever on the #40 I am already shooting! 
At the request of the ARMY they took out the elevation wheel.
It is smaller than the LMT and lighter (by several ounces). The LMT BUIS is $119 and the this one will around that same price.
The number is in the hundreds if I remember right....
Always! I am not one to make up lies as some do to push their opinion. Just for the record this my own personal BUIS.
As your know, your BUIS is what it is "BACK UP" and no one is going to be adjust crap in a fire fight! You zero it and then leave it.
The LMT and LaRue are not the same! The LaRue takes up less rail space and is serveral ounces lighter. You are also missing the fact that the LaRue has clean lines on the left side. This in my opinion put's it head and shoulders above the LMT simply for that reason alone! Remember also that NONE of your Flip Up BUIS's have an elevation wheel! C4 |
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Posted: 5/23/2004 6:44:38 AM EDT
[#2]
Your opinion is not worth anything as far as I am concerned!  C4 |
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Posted: 5/23/2004 9:00:59 AM EDT
[#3]
I don't know how much of a benefit this really is. This type of BUIS is meant to be used with a reflex sight, and reflex sights are best mounted as far forward as is practical. The only rail space that would freed up by using this BUIS would be toward the rear of the receiver, which is space that typically goes unused anyway. Sure, you might have a couple more mounting slots to play with, but they will be in between your LaRue sight & the mount to your reflex sight. So where is the benefit? |
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Posted: 5/23/2004 9:18:05 AM EDT
[#4]
That is your opinion. I really don't know that many people who mount their Aimpoint or EOTech out on the forward rail of a rail system. Most I have seen mount theirs at the forward edge of the carbine upper. So, in general use this BUIS sight will be pretty much all the way back with your optic at the forward edge of the carbine upper. You are basing your reasoning on your opinions solely. That is fine for you. But assuming that your preferences are best/applicable for everyone is just irresponsible.
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Posted: 5/23/2004 10:02:01 AM EDT
[#5]
Bottom line there are better sights for this purpose, too bad you cannot let me think what I want. This is a good site that has alot left to be desired. Until its improved I will stick with a CCH or LMT
 if you make it that big then finish the job, why screw around your just being cheap.
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Posted: 5/23/2004 10:32:26 AM EDT
[#6]
Im still trying to figure out why I NEED elevation adjustments on a BUIS. If the gun is sighted in, Im not going to be moving the sight to dope shots. If you are looking for a target sight, THIS is not the one you want - DCM shooters need not look here.
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Posted: 5/23/2004 11:16:24 AM EDT
[#7]
Most operators mount the EOTech/Aimpoint on the receiver as the PEQ is taking up space over the Hand Guards. So by freeing up some extra space on the receiver makes it easier for the shooter to either operate the controls on the optic or fit a NV device behind it. So the extra space saved is VERY important!
I think you are dead wrong when you say that there are better FIXED rear sights on the market. I have explained why the LaRue is better piece by piece. The only thing you really don't like (understand) is the lack of elevation wheel. On their older models, they had one there. They then showed it to the ARMY and said to get rid of it! It is not a "Being Cheap" thing it is a "Military Thing!" The LMT BUIS is an excellent FIXED BUIS up until the point when you rack your hand on the big thumb screw sticking out the side! C4 Here is a pic of the LMT BUIS incase you have forgotten what it looks likes!  |
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Posted: 5/23/2004 11:20:38 AM EDT
[#8]
Ah, but some of us are investigating cheap, easy ways to eliminate that big knob
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Posted: 5/23/2004 11:21:33 AM EDT
[#9]
I agree that you don't NEED the elevation wheel on a BUIS. But what I don't get is the pricing on the sights w/o the elevation being the same as those that do have it. Seems to me that there is less work involved in the non-elevated models and as such the savings could be passed to the consumer. Also why is there a set screw on the front for windage, with the adjustmet dial recessed like that is that a needed cost/feature?
Mark is probably going to really beat me up in an email now. LOL |
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Posted: 5/23/2004 11:21:47 AM EDT
[#10]
Mcgrubbs are you really so zealous in your defense of this BUIS that you are prepared to deny the fact that reflex type sights are best mounted as far forward as is practical? I'm not necessarily talking about mounting them on a FF handguard, but most everyone mounts their reflex sight as far forward on their receiver as possible. Hell, many folks even buy cantilever mounts to position their sights further out than that! With that established, please tell me how one or two additional mounting slots between the BUIS & the reflex mount are going to benefit me in any meaningful way?
Mcgrubbs, you obviously like this BUIS and that's great... to each their own! Spend your $$$ & configure your rifle as you see fit. All I'm trying to say is that it is not the best thing since sliced bread, and that there are other options out there that are as good or better. This Larue sight seems to be a "work in progress" at best, and a slightly flawed design at worst. YMMV. |
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Posted: 5/23/2004 11:22:41 AM EDT
[#11]
I am not a DCM shooter, never said I was so screw you on your insult Lumpy that's bullshit why attack me? What the hell did I do to you? They made it big it blocks alot of your FOV. If I have to make a 600yd shot why would I want to guess? that's stupid turn the site up. If you want to guess go ahead when you start missing don't blame me. BUIS sights need to be small THEY ARE FOR BACK UP USE ONLY! if you want to make something this big then finish the job. I already said it before, its a good product just needs to be finished. That's my opinion no one else's. If you dont like it TO FUCKING BAD! your ass will never be able to change my opinion it's free country remember. What poeple cannot say what they wish now here at Arfcom? if someone points out the short comings of a new product you gang up on the guy who says something negitve about the product? This is bullshit! I'll see you guys on the next thread. |
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Posted: 5/23/2004 11:33:04 AM EDT
[#12]
First of all I never made the statment about it saving/freeing up rail space, Grant did. Second, I highlighted in red your statement above. Go back and look at my reply to your post. You will see that you just stated the exact same thing I did. Either way, learn to read my posts more carefully before you retort. And make sure to distinguish if you are replying to something I said, or Grant said. So far, your reading comprehension in this thread is lacking...... |
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Posted: 5/23/2004 11:37:42 AM EDT
[#13]
Uh boom, several people made comments on the elevation issue, and I made a GENERAL statement about why I didnt think it was a necessary feature. My comment wasnt intended as an insult or a slam on anyone. I asked why I need, not you. I was merely commenting on WHAT this type of sight is designed for...and the fact remains the majority of the BUIS on the market DONT have elevations adjustments. So if you're offended, sorry you took it that way, but I think you're over-reacting just a bit. Why are we investing emotion in this???? |
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Posted: 5/23/2004 11:43:45 AM EDT
[#14]
OK, I am not bashing you here, but I do have a seriouos question. Have you used this sight to verify your statement above (in blue). Why can't people say what they wish, but still have a serious discussion here at Arfcom? Why can't people wait to badmouth something, until after they have actually tried it? Why can't people give honest thoughts when asked questions about their opinions, rahter than scream FOUL! |
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Posted: 5/23/2004 11:57:57 AM EDT
[#15]
Mcgrubbs, you are right... my comments should have been directed at C4iGrant, not you. My mistake.
My criticisms of this BUIS still stand, however. Now let's all stop getting so worked up over a hunk of machined Aluminum & go enjoy the weekend!  |
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Posted: 5/23/2004 12:01:24 PM EDT
[#16]
Lumpy the only guys that have said anything about the elev were at the top of page 1 this is page 3, I have been the only one for the last 2 pages. So I felt your comment was directed at me.
Mcgrubbs no I have not held this sight in my hand, but I can measure the sight from known measurements I have on hand of a A3 upper. I did give a honest response/opinion in my first post which you jumped on afterward defending this product which you really did not have to do. I do think its a good product as I've said. I've had enough of this thread good day. |
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Posted: 5/23/2004 12:08:32 PM EDT
[#17]
My #40 isn't underneath my Aimpoint.
For what reason? I thought a BUIS was a last resort, why would anyone want to remove thier last resort?
 I konw exactly where my lever is, I don't have to look for it. I raise my hand four inches and manipulate it. Quick, simple and effective.
Then why on earth is there a throwlevver on it???
Some FUBUIS ARE elevation adjustable.
And what makes you think anyone values your opinion?
I beleive he is simply stating the reasons why he would not use the sight.
Again, it most likely wont be moved after being sighted in so why have a higher priced QD feature? Not everyone on these forums are SF, believe it or not. If you like this sight, fine, buy it and use it, but don't try to discount someone elses opinions and don't try to force yours onto someone else. No I haven't tried this sight but for good reason: it lacks the features I find conveniat and practical. |
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Posted: 5/23/2004 12:11:58 PM EDT
[#18]
Some of us take the Aimpoint off once in a while and put on an ACOG. Thats the best reason I can offer. I can see the military application too where the operator may want to mount night vision behind the primary optic (Aimpoint or Eotech) |
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Posted: 5/23/2004 12:12:35 PM EDT
[#19]
Best thing I have heard so far....... We are firing up the grill in just a little while. WOO HOO!! |
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Posted: 5/23/2004 1:00:23 PM EDT
[#20]
I just have one question for C4iGrant: are the apertures located at the same place on the receiver as other fixed and flip-up BUIS? Going by the screw end that marks the pivot point for the apertures it looks like it might be a fraction of an inch forward of the standard A2 position. But since you have other BUIS on-hand (I presume), can you clarify this issue?
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Posted: 5/23/2004 1:10:31 PM EDT
[#21]
For the last time, the throw lever is just as strong as ANY OTHER thumb screw or whatever you are using! If am I am shooting at night and don't see a need to take my BUIS then I can QUICKLY take it off without having to find an allen wrench or whatever. I gurantee you that a Fixed BUIS is faster than ANY flip up sight! Drew-TX is known to wonder around the board and make ignorant comments. To step into a discussion and say "Looks Pretty Stupid" and then say nothing else shows his ignorance. At the very least tell us what looks stupid! Is it the throw lever or the windage knob, etc. I sell, handle, demo, shoot and receive feedback from A LOT of high speed guys on products I sell. I also received weapons training while in the Military and have taken private classes as a Civy. While this does NOT make me an expert I gurantee that I know the products I sell and use! The price on the LaRue BUIS has not been set and will most likely be cheaper than the LMT BUIS. I am not asking anyone to buy one, I am asking for intelligent feedback as to what they like and don't like. Saying that something is ugly or looks stupid doesn't do anyone any good. I could have gotten those answers from a 10 year old! Also, making statements like "the throw lever is on the wrong side" or "there isn't any elevation" just shows a lack of training. Stop buying gear and go take a tactical carbine class so you understand how things work! Uninformed, ignorant opinions are just a wast of everyones time. brewsky101, these last statements aren't directed at you personally so don't take them that way.... C4 |
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Posted: 5/23/2004 1:14:14 PM EDT
[#22]
Thank-you for an HONEST question! The location of the apertureis .078" further forward than the ARMS #40 C4 |
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Posted: 5/23/2004 1:30:15 PM EDT
[#23]
In before thread lock because of third grade playground arguing on the internet.
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Posted: 5/23/2004 1:46:02 PM EDT
[#24]
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Posted: 5/23/2004 1:52:26 PM EDT
[#25]
sigh..... |
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Posted: 5/23/2004 2:00:46 PM EDT
[#26]
I know they make one, the QD is on Screw it why bother. |
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Posted: 5/23/2004 3:01:10 PM EDT
[#27]
That is correct. They did make them with the elevation wheel and took it out at the request of the military.... C4 |
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Posted: 5/23/2004 10:32:35 PM EDT
[#28]
For me, the throw lever would be in the way, unless it is indeed reversible (I too, seem to recall having read that the Larue throw levers are, btw). Other than that, it looks to me like it was pretty well designed for it's purpose (as a BUIS). I'll stick with my LMT, however; it's my primary sight, so I like the elevation adjustment.
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Posted: 5/24/2004 12:07:03 AM EDT
[#29]
In defense of the Larue product, who here actually uses the elevation wheel on the LMT BUIS? Especially if it's mounted on a carbine, I hardly see a use for it. My gripe is with the location of the throw lever and the color of the windage dial. If the throw lever is indeed reversible, then my argument against it would be moot since Grant has stated that production versions will have the dial finished in black. If those speculations come to pass, then I will probably purchase one.
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Posted: 5/24/2004 4:33:16 AM EDT
[#30]
Good point on the elevation wheel! If this is your PRIMARY sight then I would want one as well. C4 |
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Posted: 5/24/2004 4:45:45 AM EDT
[#31]
The throw lever is on the right side for a VERY specific reason. Mr. LaRue changed it from the left side to the right side at my request. Reason why?? I recently shot in a 3 gun match with a buddies gun and he had a LMT BUIS on it. When I got to the AR section I quickly realized that I had a bad mag. I had 10 jams in 10 rounds!  Since 3 gun matches are timed, speed is of the essence so I was a clearing Mother! As I have been taught, I swept the charging handle (thank GOD he had a PRI Gas Buster with Military Latch) with the palm of my left hand. As I came down to the end of the receiver I was expecting to meet the PRI Latch, but instead found the LMT's big thumb screw! Hitting something that fast and hard with your palm doesn't let you forget! The next day I got a call from a buddy that was taking an advanced carbine course at Front Sight and he had the same problem during a speed drill. We then decided to see if we could do something about it. Mr. LaRue was open to new ideas and switched the throw lever for me. So I would just like to thank him and my hand would like to thank him! C4 |
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Posted: 5/24/2004 6:00:57 AM EDT
[#32]
Grant:
From your description of your unfortunate incident with having the attachment gizmo on the left side of the weapon, it appears that you, like me, are right handed. I'm a little puzzled at your request to have the LaRue's locking handles moved to the right side. I own an Aimpoint mount, an ACOG mount, and conventional scope rings by LaRue. The levers on all of them are, unlike ARMS, recessed into the main body of the device and failry difficult to strike by accident. Furthermore, it seems preferrable to me to operate the QD levers with your weak-side (left) thumb rahter than removing your shooting hand from the grip and using your trigger finger. This is particularly true if you happen to be wedged into an inconvenient shooting position; such as prone under a vehicle. I'm not understanding the switch to the right side. But then, there are whole librarys full of things I don't understand.... Thanks. SD |
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Posted: 5/24/2004 6:26:25 AM EDT
[#33]
The LaRue throw lever is a more pronounced than the ARMS throw lever. Which I am in favor of because I believe that it is more robust. So moving the lever to the right side is a good idea as far as I am concerned. The second thought about a BUIS is that there isn't any need to take it off. If I did take it off, I would be doing so when someone wasn't shooting at me! Most of your other BUIS use some kind for screw to secure them to the rail. I don't see anyone pulling out a screwdriver to take that off either...C4 |
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Posted: 5/24/2004 9:23:04 AM EDT
[#34]
I didn't read three pages of this so maybe this is a useless post that no-one will read.
I think the metal is too thick (the ears are blocking major field of view.) Why even bother with ears at all? the other BUIS's on the market don't. That rear aperature is pretty strong, and it takes a very hard blow to the sights to do anything close to what I think would damage them. Really I can't remember my carry handle or BUIS ever taking an impact at all. Maybe these are for guys that repel without their weapons under control? |
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Posted: 5/24/2004 10:54:41 AM EDT
[#35]
Good comments Green0. I have a LMT BUIS and the "rabbit ears" are very almost the same, but the LaRue is a little bit thicker. The LaRue is also lighter than the LMT. I don't believe it obstructs the shooters view though. A Recon buddy best explained why gear needs to be as robust as possible. Take your weapon and throw it in the back of a truck. Drive down the nastiest, pothole filled dirt road you can with the weapon just bouncing around on the metal deck. Drop test it a couple times a day just to make sure! If the part either falls off or didn't hold zero, chit can it on the spot!
I think this BUIS will take that abuse with a smile on its face. C4 |
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Posted: 5/24/2004 2:45:19 PM EDT
[#36]
Really not enough experience to add to this, but would have liked to see basicly a lmt without the elevation wheel with the throw lever along side where the elevation wheel would be. The throw lever on the sight as is, looks like it would be a hazard to catch on web gear, slings, or anythere items murphy see's fit.
Jason |
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Posted: 5/24/2004 3:13:44 PM EDT
[#37]
HUH The lever is on the RIGHT side where it CAN'T get hung on ANYTHING! If anything this is the perfect A1 BUIS as it is simple and rugged...C4 |
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Posted: 5/24/2004 3:21:28 PM EDT
[#38]
There is always the simple rugged Cavalry Arms BUIS for $65 or less.
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Posted: 5/26/2004 7:00:20 PM EDT
[#39]
I just got to handle one of these today, along with some of the LaRue mounts.
I must say, they are impressive. Hell for stout. The coolest thing about this BUIS IMHO is that its significantly wider sight channel compared to my LMT or a carry handle. Any concerns you may have about blocking field of view dont exist with this rear sight. I am still getting used to its unconventional looks, but its pretty damn cool. |
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Posted: 5/26/2004 7:09:41 PM EDT
[#40]
Glad you like it!!! C4 |
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Posted: 5/26/2004 7:13:01 PM EDT
[#41]
C4iGrant, can you get them in all black yet? |
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Posted: 5/26/2004 7:43:01 PM EDT
[#42]
Looks like a nice rugget new product.
I just want to say that I think the Throw-Lever is great. My friends Carbine has a YHM 4 railed fore-arm, and an ARMS #40. To get his optic on (Regular rings) he has to remove the ARMS, and slide the rings in from the back of the gun on. And having the Throwlevers on the right side (Ejection port) is very much inline with proper use of the charging handle (Punching yourself in the face method). Looks like a cool product, but it might be a bit late in a pretty saturated market if there are no pricing incentives for new buyers as people pointed out cheaper alternatives that are similar at less of the projected cost of this unit. |
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Posted: 5/26/2004 11:26:32 PM EDT
[#43]
I'm sure the BUIS would take the abuse but my guess is that the rifle would loose it's zero (one of the side effects of a slip-fit and tensioned barrel.) I've seen dropped rifles change zero by about 1.5inches at 25meters.
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Posted: 5/27/2004 4:28:22 AM EDT
[#44]
Timinator,
I see your point. BUT, I can't see price being such a huge factor on a defensive carbine, or fighting carbine. When it comes to lives, I woiuld think $$$ would take a backseat. Just my dos centavos..... BTW, cool user name..... Monty |
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Posted: 5/27/2004 5:00:04 AM EDT
[#45]
Very soon Dinger! C4 |
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Posted: 5/27/2004 5:07:58 AM EDT
[#46]
Retail price on this unit will be $89!!! So that will make it one of the best fixed BUIS's for the money.... C4 |
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Posted: 5/27/2004 5:16:14 AM EDT
[#47]
They are going to sell a bunch at that price.
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Posted: 5/27/2004 5:32:31 AM EDT
[#48]
Yes I will (I mean they)!  C4 |
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Posted: 5/27/2004 5:39:53 AM EDT
[#49]
That is a great price, I'll keep that in mind for the next build.
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Posted: 5/27/2004 5:40:13 AM EDT
[#50]
Excellent point to consider. |
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