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Posted: 2/14/2006 5:30:44 PM EDT
[#1]
They did it so it would be compatable with the current CQB optics on the market. The stock "hump" will give you a good cheek rest for the higher sights. |
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Posted: 2/14/2006 5:38:30 PM EDT
[#2]
Yeah, I get it, the sights are 4" from the bore because they are set up to co-witness with standard USGI optics (M68 CCO). The sight platform is higher then the M4's because there is a piston between the rail and the barrel. Anyhow, having the line of sight 4" above the bore is going to present problems at CQB ranges. |
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Posted: 2/14/2006 5:39:54 PM EDT
[#3]
Never even noticed....................But now that You mention it   Regardless of the silly looking stock, this just might be what the doctor ordered. I know I'm getting one. |
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Posted: 2/14/2006 5:46:52 PM EDT
[#4]
I can't wait. This is the rifle i have been waiting for, & it comes with everything i want. Gas piston system? Check. Rail system? Check. Folding Tele-stock? Check. Non-pencil barrel so i feel better about mounting a suppressor? Check.
I would like to know what the barrel profile is under the rail. I am REALLY hoping for something either mid-weight, or HBAR profile.... just anything but a pencil barrel. Also, about the sight height.... from looking at it... i was thinking the LOW profile aimpoint mount would be nice, like the one used on the RAS 2 & the SIR. The goose neck and regular mount looks like it would be very high. What i would LIKE to do/see.... is use a low profile aimpoint mount, while having the iron sights in the bottom third of the aimpoint. That would be nice. The way it looks now... the Eotech 511/512/551/552 might work well without any additional mount. Just make it in ALL BLACK, please. I can't wait. |
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Posted: 2/14/2006 5:50:45 PM EDT
[#5]
My GOD, you guys can bitch about anything!
"Ooooh, it's ugly, it's a nasty color, waaaaah!" First of all, it's a fucking rifle, not a diamond ring, or an exquisite work of art. It is a tool. Now, I'm sorry it's form offends you because it doesn't "go" with your tactical tampon holders and M1913 mounted mascara tubes and designed-for-a-damned-toy clone optics. I'm sure this rifle isn't for you folks that only shoot your rifle at stationary paper targets in the daylight once a year, and parade around with in your XXXXXXXL Multicam jammies twice a week because it doesn't "look cool". It's for folks that appreciate every bit of thought and input from the guys that shoot at other people for a living, while defending your fucking freedom. Not only is it a tool, but a tool meant for COMBAT. This entails shooting at people that are shooting at you. The color is called "Flat Dark Earth" and is specified BY SOCOM for Christ's sake. If you don't like it, enlist, make it through BUD/S and THEN bitch about it. I'm sure most of us would be more willing to listen to you then. And to guys that actually have realistic concerns regarding the HOB with irons, IIRC it was within 1/2" within that of the M16. It's not as big of a deal as originally thought. This is a really well thought out, well designed rifle that's still in the experimental stages. Give it some time, and all will be good. FN is making one clean rifle out of this, and it's about as perfect as we'll see in a 5.56 platform. I love the M4/M16, but this thing may end up being a better beast. And even if it's only half as good as the namesake of this site... It'll still be 10 times better than the XM8  Edited to add: It has, however been made in other colors. Black is another color that MK16/MK17s have been produced in. IIRC, all of the original rifles were black. |
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Posted: 2/14/2006 6:18:04 PM EDT
[#6]
At the rate politics is going now, they had better put it out soon before 2008 rolls around and everything gets banned.
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Posted: 2/14/2006 6:22:38 PM EDT
[#7]
Capn, I salute you.
The SCAR is darker in real life, and it is the best off the shelf man-killer I've had the pleasure of handling. It comes with everything you need and nothing you don't, and if it lives up to its promise, a generation of American Soldiers may have the opportunity to kill a generation of foreign booger eaters with it. |
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Posted: 2/14/2006 6:23:12 PM EDT
[#8]
The one in the picture has sights much higher then .5" above the M16. Looks closer to 1.5". |
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Posted: 2/14/2006 6:28:05 PM EDT
[#9]
Tag.
Thanks for the pic rsilvers. How'd you get ahold of that beast?
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Posted: 2/15/2006 7:52:12 AM EDT
[#10]
Damn............I want one of those and if SIG redoes the 556, one of those..........I am gonna be broke!
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Posted: 2/15/2006 9:58:25 AM EDT
[#11]
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Posted: 2/15/2006 10:08:37 AM EDT
[#12]
Is that a serious question? |
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Posted: 2/15/2006 1:52:40 PM EDT
[#13]
When is this thing going to be available for civi's? I can't wait to have one!!!
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Posted: 2/15/2006 2:37:40 PM EDT
[#14]
I still think is fUgLy! I'll keep my AR, thank you.
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Posted: 2/15/2006 2:46:20 PM EDT
[#15]
Well there is no accounting for taste. I find it rather endearing. I can't wait to combine a SCAR-H in Flat Dark Earth with a Kimber Desert Warrior in Flat Dark Earth.
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Posted: 2/15/2006 3:14:19 PM EDT
[#16]
The retarded part of this conversation is that those of us who are interested in fielding the best weapon for turning a viable human being into a rotten biohazard have the balls to step in and call what may be one of the best tools for the job FUgly. We don't need those comments. Their is nothing pretty about rotting flesh, and no requirement that the tool used to create such a condition be anything other than effective.
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Posted: 2/15/2006 3:20:46 PM EDT
[#17]
I admit that based on what's openly known about the ARM rifle, I'm very prone to drinking the cool aid. Unlike most cool aid drinking, there is a large amount of good reason behind it.
With that said, to ignore the obvious benefits over the M16 is to admit one's own ignorance. As for it looking like an M16, I fail to see the similarity? Could you point it out? I see the pistol grip, but am I missing something else?  
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Posted: 2/15/2006 3:21:34 PM EDT
[#18]
With a monolithic upper there's no reason that alternative lower sights couldn't be used. They are using AR height sights now for commonality with existing SOPMOD components, but particularly in civilian use there's nothing to stop folks from using lower height scope mounts and iron sights (if someone will make them).
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Posted: 2/15/2006 4:29:13 PM EDT
[#19]
The entire lower looks like an M16...heres a solution for the military just make or get a piston upper from the many doing it to use on current lowers and be done with it.And if you used an M4 carbine you would see the similarity instead of comparing the look to an M16 no longer in service.Some body post a pic of a flat top M4 with folding front and rear sights ,ras system and a magpul stock...better yet a picture of the new piston driven Colt carbine and you have your similar look.
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Posted: 2/15/2006 5:13:00 PM EDT
[#20]
Okay. Seeing as the ARM rifles are going to cost about the same an an M4, we'll do a comparison using civilian prices. Colt LE6920 - Let's say $1300 Folding front and rear sights - Atleast $200 RAS system - $300 Magpul stock - $225 Piston conversion - $400 A total cost of around $2425 Colt piston driven rifle - $1700 (rumored) Rear sight - Atleast $80 Magpul stock - $225 A total cost of around $2000 FN ARM rifle based on comparison to the cost of a 6920 - Probably $1200 - $1500 The benefits still being left over are the deletion of a protruding buffer tube, the ambidextrious safety, the ambidextrious charging handles that you can cycle while the gun is on your shoulder, the quick barrel change feature, the improved safety selector, the monolithic upper receiver (Colt has this, but currently offered M16's don't), a heavy variant, and 90% parts interchangeability between all models. The modular look may be similar appearing to some, but that's what happens when you have a platform that's built with those features intergal, and a platform you have to spend large amounts of money on to modify to the same specs. I love the AR, but this gun has been built based on SOCOM's specifications and the evolution of all battle rifles and combat situations across the board. |
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Posted: 2/15/2006 5:17:25 PM EDT
[#21]
Can someone please tell FN and any other company that is trying to replace the M4... IF YOUR STOCK'S LENGTH OF PULL DOES NOT COLLAPSE TO THE SAME LENGTH AS A FULLY CLOSED M4 STOCK, IT IS TOO LONG. |
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Posted: 2/15/2006 5:19:18 PM EDT
[#22]
Not only that, but it folds too. |
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Posted: 2/15/2006 5:38:29 PM EDT
[#23]
Ya, I don't really see the need for a folder. |
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Posted: 2/15/2006 5:45:22 PM EDT
[#24]
I'm really excited about this rifle, and can't really seem to find anything to gripe about.
Form follows function. What is your point? Retrofit an AR to match the SCAR's specs, and see how much it weighs and costs. |
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Posted: 2/15/2006 5:54:36 PM EDT
[#25]
I'm likin' it, That Xm-8 style stock is cool too.
Any guesstimate on price and when it will be available(07-08) |
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Posted: 2/15/2006 6:00:21 PM EDT
[#26]
It makes the rifle roughly half as long. Perfect for storage. Can you say truck gun? |
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Posted: 2/15/2006 6:37:41 PM EDT
[#27]
I personally don't believe in having the stock folded anywhere but while in long-term storage. If theres a chance of having to deploy a rifle from a vehicle in the middle of a shitty situation, I don't want to have to waste the time unfolding the stock. The MK16 has M68/ML3 written all over it, so I'd just leave the optic on and the rifle charged/on safe and ready to go. Pull the rear lens cap off the M68, so even if you don't have time to pull your front lenscap down, you still have something akin to an OEG. Fast and easy. Just how you want a gunfight to be. |
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Posted: 2/15/2006 8:12:15 PM EDT
[#28]
"Truck gun"?  I don't think the SCAR program had that in mind. |
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Posted: 2/15/2006 8:13:57 PM EDT
[#29]
Honestly I don't like the looks of the SCAR- that's just me, my AR's look better I guess.
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Posted: 2/15/2006 9:07:31 PM EDT
[#30]
Capn, I would keep my rifle stuffed away unless I was planning on using it. It gets small enough to hide away in a book bag or suitcase and is ready in a hurry. That is something that a lot of end users will appreciate.
MP906, I'm not worried about the designers intentions. If the people who designed the internet had known that it was going to be mostly porn, they would have done something else for a living. Creeper, your concerns have been adressed. |
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Posted: 2/15/2006 9:09:19 PM EDT
[#31]
sweet, thanks for the pick
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Posted: 2/15/2006 9:09:54 PM EDT
[#32]
The the stock telescopes AND folds effective, and is robust/durable, what's to complain about? Seems like another advantage. The SCAR seemed really well thought out, and I'll be buying one as soon as they're available.
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Posted: 2/15/2006 9:34:41 PM EDT
[#33]
Oh come one, you all know you just want to bump fire the SCAR from the hip w/ the stock folded! They still need to seriously cut down the minimum LOP though. I'm telling you, I can tell just by looking at the pic that it is fubar. |
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Posted: 2/16/2006 2:35:30 PM EDT
[#34]
Don't forget the adjustable cheek piece.  I agree the stock is kind of funky looking. The more I look at it, the more it does look like a boot. The ribs in the stock even look like laces. I could probably live with it quite easily though. I thought I heard mention of FN doing a little tweaking to the stock. IIRC it's only a three position stock, and I believe I heard it would end up being a six position. I'd also prefer a different butt pad than the one they seem to be using. The thing has to be 3/4" or so thick. |
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Posted: 2/16/2006 3:41:15 PM EDT
[#35]
I think they were only going to add one more position. Kinda hard to remember with the 50 or so SHOT shot threads I've read through WIZZO |
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Posted: 2/16/2006 3:58:13 PM EDT
[#36]
What bothers me is the possibility of a civilian ARM...
FN has dropped the ball on the PS90s and the ammo issue IMO... I am in line to get one and I cannot wait, but they had to know that the demand was going to be high, yet it seems like they completely misread the market. That or they just cannot pump them out fast enough. Who really knows  People have a lot of mixed feelings about the PS90 because of the caliber and looks and FN cannot keep up with demand on it, so how are we to expect them to be able to supply a public that REALLY wants the ARM ( L & H ) ? I think FN has people throwing money at them, yet they are behind the curve when it comes to mass producing these goodies that we want. As far as I'm concerned, FN has the market by the balls as far as sweet rifles go and they cannot get them to us fast enough. I take my hat off to FN, but for the love of God.... get these things to us quicker !!! I think it would be in FN's best interest to start hiring more people and get this shit done and out the door ! After all, we may only have 'till 2008 to get our buying wrapped up. FN may be cutting it close to supply us (civies anyway). Let's just hope they don't throw some gay furniture and an AR stock on it like a certain other Euro based company did   |
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Posted: 2/16/2006 4:11:18 PM EDT
[#37]
The PS90 is a specialty gun for FN. It has no market with out civilian consumption. The same goes for the FS2000.
The FN ARM has a market behind it aside from civilians, so of course FN will be a little more cautious about it. It is by design, a much more logical weapon system than both the PS90 and the FS2000. As for ammo, keep in mind that FN and the 5.7x28 ammo makers probably weren't expecting a ban when they started development. If FN has to put supplying our military before us, I applaud them. I'm sure M16's have been in steady supply for awhile now, and they do have a contract to fulfill for SOCOM. |
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Posted: 2/16/2006 4:16:29 PM EDT
[#38]
I've seen quite a few Toyota 4x4's running around Afghanistan with U.S. soldiers at the wheel |
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Posted: 2/16/2006 4:45:25 PM EDT
[#39]
The only thing I would change would be to lengthen the front end and put a folding site on the uninterrupted top rail. But that is just me and a civilian bias; I would imagine the majority of .mil rifles would be using a shorter barrel. I think that it would great if FN could get them out sooner in light of political possibilities.
A question if anyone knows, why is the ARM-H always shown with the really short barrel? I would think that the .308 would need a longer barrel for best results. 96Ag |
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Posted: 2/16/2006 4:52:44 PM EDT
[#40]
This thread needs more pics!!!!!!
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Posted: 2/16/2006 4:55:08 PM EDT
[#41]
For a .308, think 16" or better yet 18" for optimal terminal ballistic performance.
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Posted: 2/16/2006 5:08:06 PM EDT
[#42]
I suspect that I may be the only person that thinks the SCAR is a handsome firearm.
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Posted: 2/16/2006 5:32:11 PM EDT
[#43]
I would agree, I like the look. |
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Posted: 2/16/2006 5:49:43 PM EDT
[#44]
You are not alone! It has been the only truly different weapon to come out that I can say I have supported throughout. I like the stock as well
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Posted: 2/16/2006 5:50:05 PM EDT
[#45]
Nope, you're not alone. I think it looks cool/tough/beautimus/pick-your-adjective. Not too hot on the "dark earth" color, so I'd have to Cerakote it to my liking, which is easy as far as the metal surfaces are concerned. The plastic components are a more of a concern in regard to proper, effective conversion-coloring. That stock in particular doesn't look particularly easy to dismantle. Really, what I'd hope for is that FN would make it in "traditional" evil-black or similar shade, but I'm doubtful that they will go to the extra trouble after already investing so much in it. |
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Posted: 2/16/2006 5:54:01 PM EDT
[#46]
DocGKR, Any information available yet on the barrel length to achieve optimal ballistic performance in 6.8mm . |
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Posted: 2/16/2006 5:57:45 PM EDT
[#47]
About 3 pages back someone talks about it being available in black. 
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Posted: 2/16/2006 6:42:12 PM EDT
[#49]
The prototypes were dressed in traditional black, but the newest generation wears "dark earth" clothes. It could certainly be rolled in black, & I hope they do.
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Posted: 2/16/2006 7:17:01 PM EDT
[#50]
i like it.... the stock does look like a moon boot or a ski boot or something though
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