Quoted: I hear that Wolf wears out extractors and bolt faces prematurely.  I thought about it, and decided that it's cheaper to buy a brand new complete bolt every 5000 rounds or so than to constantly run ammo that costs $200/case of 1000.

Do the Math:
1 Case of Wolf $120 (my local price)
1 Complete Bolt $50 (Local price)

For a total of $170

It's still cheaper to buy a new bolt with every case, let alone every 5K rounds.

Wolf is great training ammo if you're practicing at 100y or less - just be sure to clean your barrel really well after using it.

Quoted: Tweak, can you give us more information on the military using polymer coated ammo? I havent heard of that until now.

PCA isn't polymere coated ammo - it's ammo with a polymere case with a small brass base (for the rim and primer).  You can buy it online or at your local gunshop.  It's very lightweight, but from the reports of ARfcom users it's weak and the cases do some apart occasionally.

Neat idea - not yet ready for prime time.

Quoted: I hear that Wolf wears out extractors and bolt faces prematurely.

I have heard that statement countless times and I have yet to run across anybody who has broken, much less worn out, an extractor using steel-cased ammo.

If my ar's would not shoot wolf I would take them to a gunsmith and have them fixed! picky rifle = piece of shithock.gif

Quoted: It wont work Tweak. They'll still buy shit ammo to save a couple bucks over the good stuff.

For some of us, we have no reason not to...

After all, it seems some guns have no problem eating it all day, with none of the above issues...



Oh, the 'wearong parts out' stuff is ...

Simple science here: the only thing that will get 'worn' is the steel case, as the wear occurrs to the softer material (eg not the hardened gun parts, the case)...

Quoted: Would anyone be willing to bumpfire 240rd+ of Wolf lacquer coated ammo through their AR15 (8 mags consecutively)?

I would be, except I don't bumpfire...

Don't see the appeal of splattering un-aimed fire over a wide area....

Will this shit just stop...it's like the Arabs and the Israeli's...you people just can't get along...if you don't mind a little extra cleaning...then great... Shoot wolf....I do...and love it just fine...I also shoot brass cased shit...but whem I'm poor and I wanna shoot...well Wolf wins...and besides they are MY GUNS....NOT YOURS....you wanna spend double the money for yours...then I'm glad you have the money to burn...I'm proud of you...I really, I am.

Wolf in my AK only.

Quoted: Wolf in my AK only.

+1

Quoted: Quoted: Tweak, can you give us more information on the military using polymer coated ammo? I havent heard of that until now. Polymer coated? That's the first I've heard of that, I don't see how that could be done. Polymer cased? Yes, it's covered in detail in David R. Hughes The M16 Rifle and its Cartridge.

I don't see why we don't just up the ante and go caseless.  I wonder if the M16 could be adapted to feed caseless.



But I'm that even once the cases were out of the picture with their varying metal composition and coatings, we would find something else to disagree about

Would anyone be willing to bumpfire 240rd+ of Wolf lacquer coated ammo through their AR15 (8 mags consecutively)?

I do know of about 1000 rnds of Wolf fired full auto.  As long as the rifle was hot, the lacquer coating the chamber was gooey liquid and the rifle continued to function.  When it was allowed to cool with a round in the chamber, it stuck and required a cleaning rod and hammer and lotsa cussing.  Took hours to clean that crap out.

I just can't figure out why guys will spend good money, wanting the best AR they can get, worrying about whether it has .223 or 5.56 chamber, chrome lining, etc, so that they can fire the crappiest ammo.

I am not saying all cheap ammo is crap, just that you need to chose wisely.  If you just like to go out in the boonies and blast away, fine.  Buy whatever you want.  If you want to depend on that WEAPONS SYSTEM as a home defense firearm, for LEO use, or any other use where it simply must work when you need it, buy better ammo.

You don't have to buy the $10/box stuff, but there is a lot in the $4/box range.  

I have used a lot of the South African battle packs, and still have 6 left.  Too bad that stuff is no more.  Federal American Eagle is fine, but like the SA stuff, let the brass fly, don't bother picking it up.  LC, Remington/UMC, Win Q3131A, anything from IMI are all good.

A Free Man's ammo rule of thumb, buy only ammo made in the USA, South Africa, or Israel.  This gets rid of 95% of ammo problems.  Next, out of this narrowing of source, for good feeding, either FMJ or match HP's (such as Sierra's MatchKing).  No soft points with big exposed lead tips.  That gets rid of the other 4.99% of ammo problems.

I know a lot of guys will say, but I shoot Wolf all day long and don't have any problems.  OK.  Fine.  Perhaps this new stuff, with whatever coating they have now is not as bad.  Still, only brass cased ammo is going in my guns.

And as Tweak mentioned in another thread, somebody else's rule, "Don't use ammo from a country whose water you wouldn't drink."

I just bought a new Rock River carbine, and the dealer told me "Don't use Communist ammo in it.  No Wolf, no S&B... That stuff's crap."  I said "yes sir" and took my new carbine home.  I'm sure he meant that the cheaper ammo is dirtier than dirty, and that it tends to gum stuff up pretty badly.  At least that's what I'm hoping he meant.

Still, I'm going to use Federal or Winchester in the new gun until I get it broken in.  With the amount of time I want to spend on the range, Winchester's going to be dirty enough and take me enough time to get the thing clean.  My experience with Wolf's steel cased .223 in my Mini-14 says that it's about as dirty as GI blanks, so I'm staying away from it for now.

I'm really curious about the Wolf "polymer" ammunition.  Is it really plastic cased?  I haven't seen any of it in person; all the Wolf I've seen is laquered, steel cased stuff.  It works great in my AK, but AKs will eat rocks if you can figure out how to get them in the magazine...

Quoted: I'm really curious about the Wolf "polymer" ammunition.  Is it really plastic cased?  I haven't seen any of it in person; all the Wolf I've seen is laquered, steel cased stuff.  It works great in my AK, but AKs will eat rocks if you can figure out how to get them in the magazine...

OK there seems to be a common misconception here.

1) The ONLY polymer cased ammo currently on the market, and I mean the entire case except about a 1/2 inch of brass from the base/primer is polymer, is Spectrum/PCA. This ammo is is a bit iffy as it is possible to bend the cartridge betwwen thumb and forefinger without to much effort, since the plastic is soft. Other than that, it cycled fine in my AR, but I would not trust it to not deform, it is very fragile. see image below.

Spectrum/PCA polymer cased ammo


2) The OLD wolf .223 was laquer coated. This is the evil one everyone assumes you are talking about when you speak of Wolf. I would not use this in my ARs, as it takes me long enough to clean as it is. I'm not going to argue the merits of this ammo. It is a mild steel, semi-clear laquered coated cartridge that has an ochre color. It looks like the pic below (except in .223)

Old Wolf Laquer Coated ammo


3) The new Wolf .223 is polymer COATED steel, not polymer cased. The case is still mild steel, but coated with a very thin layer of greyish black polymer that replaced the old lacquer to prevent corrosion. I have fired in excess of 2,000 rounds of this through all my ARs with zero problems, and it leaves no noticable residue other than the expected carbon, no lacquer, because it doesn't have any lacquer. This is what has replaced the old lacquer ammo, so if you see some, it is older stocks of Wolf. As such, the box is not marked, you have to open a box to check. If it is greyish black and not greenish-gold, is it the polymer coated steel, which is fine IMO. It looks like the pic below.

New "polyformance" Wolf polymer coated steel .223 ammo


All that to say, The new Wolf .223 is polymer COATED steel, not  polymer cased.

Why are we still talking about the Wolf with laquer coating? It's like talking about who will win the election! IT'S OVER, POLYMER COATING IS HERE! If your gun doesn't feed it, then I feel sorry for you and your gun.

Quoted: Why are we still talking about the Wolf with laquer coating? It's like talking about who will win the election! IT'S OVER, POLYMER COATING IS HERE! If your gun doesn't feed it, then I feel sorry for you and your gun.

+1

Quoted: I won't run Wolf thru my Bushy, but I don't mind running it thru my WASR. Shit gun, shit ammo...who cares!headbang.gif

Absurd statement, I own 2 WASR's and neither are anything close to "shit".  A rough fit and finish doesn't make a gun shit, neither does being inexpensive.  The WASR's are built from good materials on a proven design.  IMHO what makes a gun shit is one that doesn't work.  My WASR's shoot and shoot and shoot without any problems, and the accuracy is acceptable for the gun's intended use.

Just to stay on topic, I've used Wolf and other Russian ammo in all my AK's and in my AR with no problems at all.  Admittedly, I've only shot a few hundred rounds of ruskie ammo through my AR, but had no misfires and it wasn't a big deal to clean.  I've just bought 500 rounds of the zinc plated, steel cased Silver Bear 5.56 ammo although I haven't had a chance to shoot any of it yet.

I've only shot a few hundred rounds of ruskie ammo through my AR, but had no misfires and it wasn't a big deal to clean.

5,000 + rounds of lacquered BARNAUL 5.56mm thru my Colt, cleaned regularly and very few malfunctions!!!
If it ain't broke don't fix it.

The Wolf ammo I put through my AR did alot better then that shit PCA Spectrum ammo. The cases of the PCA stuff would melt and stay in the chamber when firing.

wolf ammo is the best for self defense !