Foward Assist flew right off !! - New Colt LE6920 pic added - Page 2

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Foward Assist flew right off !! - New Colt LE6920 pic added (Page 2 of 2)

Posted: 1/15/2006 3:57:10 AM EDT

[#1]

Quoted:
BTW the cap does stay on without the pin, it fits on and has a slight snap onto the FA. And if you push and twist just right it will stay on for a few hits. Just to clarify.... the FA assembly did not pop out, just the cap and spring flew off. The FA itself is just fine.

Now I'm thoroughly confused. Can you go to this diagram and use the part names they show to explain what happened. There is no "cap", and certainly nothing that fits that description that is retained with a spring. Your choices for part names are:
3. Pawl Pin
10. Forward Assist Pawl
11. Forward Assist Retainer Pin
12. Forward Assist Spring
15. Forward Assist Pawl Detent
16. Pawl Detent Spring
17. Plunger Assembly

Here's the diagram

Posted: 1/15/2006 4:22:52 AM EDT

[#2]

Not going to touch the Colt Quality issue, but after reading Humminbird's post, it makes sense, and it seems possible that the FA was depressed- but did not fully return or withdraw.

Once the round was fired, the carrier slams rearward, engages the FA and ...."See-Ya" (boing!)

Sticky FA action.

I guess new owners can lube the FA areas, and do a function check, and minimize this from happening - to any AR15 - especially a new one

In all honesty - I have checked a couple new unfired Colts of mine to see if they hang up at all. They don't but thanks to ajdrr for posting this as an "item of interest"

Posted: 1/15/2006 4:49:45 AM EDT

[#3]

Guess you're not left handed, adjrr???

Posted: 1/15/2006 5:47:00 AM EDT

[#4]

Quoted:
I called Colt. They are very sorry. They "will call me back when they find the part number for the pin, since the guy who knows the number was not available".

BTW the cap does stay on without the pin, it fits on and has a slight snap onto the FA. And if you push and twist just right it will stay on for a few hits. Just to clarify.... the FA assembly did not pop out, just the cap and spring flew off. The FA itself is just fine.

No Colt bashing from me, at least not about their weapons. Policy is another matter.

I hope to hear from them soon. A NIB rifle is the responsibility of the manufacturer to repair for the term of the warranty, not for me to find parts. I wouldn't put anything but Colt replacement parts into it anyway.

As for the M16 manual, Yes I have one, but since Colt hasn't made any since 1988, I wanted to be sure that the correct parts were used. The FA on my BM M4 is completely different in design.

I got the rifle 6 months ago, NIB from a Colt deale, waited for more than a year. I ordered it right after the sunset of the AWB. I cleaned it and looked at it, dry fired a few times then put in the safe. Last week I took it to the range intending to zero it and install a cheapo tacpoint. Nothing missing, no abuse, no problems loading, cycling or firing, it was even very close to 100m zero. After shot 1, I looked at the riflle and noticed the FA looked strange. I unloaded it and sure enough the cap and spring were on the ground behind me.

I would not wait on Colt to get you the part if you want to use the weapon this spring.

Anybody know someone who can lazer engrave MP testing on a roll pin?

Check Rock River the pin is probably no more then $1.25 but get it locally at a hardware as there is probably a 7 dollar min. shipping fee.

Posted: 1/15/2006 5:53:40 AM EDT

[#5]

Quoted:
I called Colt. They are very sorry. They "will call me back when they find the part number for the pin, since the guy who knows the number was not available".

BTW the cap does stay on without the pin, it fits on and has a slight snap onto the FA. And if you push and twist just right it will stay on for a few hits. Just to clarify.... the FA assembly did not pop out, just the cap and spring flew off. The FA itself is just fine.

No Colt bashing from me, at least not about their weapons. Policy is another matter.

I hope to hear from them soon. A NIB rifle is the responsibility of the manufacturer to repair for the term of the warranty, not for me to find parts. I wouldn't put anything but Colt replacement parts into it anyway.

As for the M16 manual, Yes I have one, but since Colt hasn't made any since 1988, I wanted to be sure that the correct parts were used. The FA on my BM M4 is completely different in design.

I got the rifle 6 months ago, NIB from a Colt deale, waited for more than a year. I ordered it right after the sunset of the AWB. I cleaned it and looked at it, dry fired a few times then put in the safe. Last week I took it to the range intending to zero it and install a cheapo tacpoint. Nothing missing, no abuse, no problems loading, cycling or firing, it was even very close to 100m zero. After shot 1, I looked at the riflle and noticed the FA looked strange. I unloaded it and sure enough the cap and spring were on the ground behind me.

It's been my experience that Colt will take care of these situations in a prompt and satisfactory manor.

Posted: 1/15/2006 5:13:11 PM EDT

[#6]

The FA on my Colt LE6920 AR15M4 is not the same as any diagrams I have seen yet. In the picture below you can see the FA "plunger assembly?" with the cap and spring removed. The spring goes on, then the cap and a pin in inserted through the cap to capture the plunger. There is no other spring, the plunger can be pushed in and pulled out by hand. It is captive with #11 Forward assist retainer pin.

http://infraredsystems.com/IMAGES/FA2.jpg

I guess know it all's don't know it all

Posted: 1/15/2006 5:33:14 PM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:
The FA on my Colt LE6920 AR15M4 is not the same as any diagrams I have seen yet. In the picture below you can see the FA "plunger assembly?" with the cap and spring removed. The spring goes on, then the cap and a pin in inserted through the cap to capture the plunger. There is no other spring, the plunger can be pushed in and pulled out by hand. It is captive with #11 Forward assist retainer pin.
infraredsystems.com/IMAGES/FA2.jpg

Interesting. So, if you push and pull on the piece that's still in the gun, it moves back and forth about 1/4-3/8" but won't come out of the gun?

I believe that the spring that you lost is part #12 in the diagram I posted, and that part #17 which is sold as a unit in fact separated due to the pin breaking. If this is the case, the pin size and # that I and others quoted you may not be correct.

I would NOT try to operate the gun in this condition because if the pawl moves forward it could bind the bolt carrier as it tries to move.

Best solution (if you want to do it yourself) would be to get a whole new #17, drive out pin #11, and replace it. Personally I'd sent the whole upper in to Colt and have them fix it themselves under warranty.

I applologize for miunderstanding the breakage as you originally described it.

Posted: 1/15/2006 5:37:57 PM EDT

[#8]

This very thing happened to me during full-auto, night-firing during Basic Training (Fort Benning, GA) almost 22 years ago!! I guess you don't always get what you pay for, huh?

Posted: 1/15/2006 5:40:28 PM EDT

[#9]

Edit. Doh, from the other angle I can see exactly what it is.

Posted: 1/15/2006 5:51:06 PM EDT

[#10]

Yes,you can push and pull on the piece in the gun, about 3/8" , and it will not come out. If I push it in it stays in until I pull it out.

I did not loose a spring, there is only one spring. I lost the pin that goes through the "cap" and "plunger / pawl" assembly. The cap holds the spring in place.

The diagram seems to show the spring going in first and possibly is held by the recess in the tube. The spring sits on top of the Plunger/pawl assembly that is held in the gun, and the cap with pin secure the spring.
In my picture you can see the hole through the cap and plunger where the pin goes through.

When I get a new pin, I will put in the spring, push on the cap and drive the pin through.

http://infraredsystems.com/IMAGES/FA1.jpg
http://infraredsystems.com/IMAGES/FA3.jpg

Posted: 1/15/2006 6:51:12 PM EDT

[#11]

I think that pin is supposed to be pressed in when they make it. You may have to get a new assist. That pin is not even normally visable on them when they are finished.

Posted: 1/15/2006 8:34:41 PM EDT

[#12]

Is it part of the plunger assembly above #17? It appears to be one piece, but is called an assembly. Perhaps the cap came off the plunger assembly, releasing the spring. Seems to make sense, then I would need a new #17, or send it to Colt and let them do it.

I just checked my BM and there is no sign of a pin on the FA.

Colt is probably closed Monday, I'll call them on Tues.

Posted: 1/15/2006 8:54:09 PM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:
I got the rifle 6 months ago, NIB from a Colt deale, waited for more than a year. I ordered it right after the sunset of the AWB. I cleaned it and looked at it, dry fired a few times then put in the safe. Last week I took it to the range intending to zero it and install a cheapo tacpoint. Nothing missing, no abuse, no problems loading, cycling or firing, it was even very close to 100m zero. After shot 1, I looked at the riflle and noticed the FA looked strange. I unloaded it and sure enough the cap and spring were on the ground behind me.

Maybe the gun was just puking after you put that optic on it.

Posted: 1/16/2006 5:15:59 AM EDT

[#14]

I was wrong with the pin size in my first post, I was unaware Colt uses a 2 piece FA plunger.

Both of my Colt's are just like yours, they are a 2 piece FA button.

The other AR's have a 1 piece FA Button.

A roll pin 0.500 long (1/2") and 0.093 (3/32") in diameter will get you running.

Danny

Posted: 1/16/2006 5:44:26 AM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:
Guess you're not left handed, adjrr???

Guess not.

Posted: 1/16/2006 6:28:40 AM EDT

[#16]

Never seen a forward assist broke down like that, and never tried to take one apart, interesting.

Posted: 1/16/2006 8:01:48 AM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:
Never seen a forward assist broke down like that, and never tried to take one apart, interesting.

I can't remember where, how or why, but I got a bunch of FA small parts - pawls, springs, etc. Not sure I'll ever use them, as the FAs usually come as an assembly.

Posted: 1/16/2006 9:38:12 AM EDT

[#18]

I have a related question. The forward assist on my Colt 6520 rotates about 20 degrees (more than the FA rotation on my 6920) and when pushed in actually misses the cut outs in the bolt, and consequently, does not shut the bolt all the way forward when actuated. Is this normal? Is there a way I can reduce the rotation play in the FA?

Posted: 1/16/2006 9:59:04 AM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:
I have a related question. The forward assist on my Colt 6520 rotates about 20 degrees (more than the FA rotation on my 6920) and when pushed in actually misses the cut outs in the bolt, and consequently, does not shut the bolt all the way forward when actuated. Is this normal? Is there a way I can reduce the rotation play in the FA?

That sounds messed up. The FA housing or the FA main body sounds like it may be out of spec. Maybe the roll pin hole is drilled off a few thou.

Posted: 1/16/2006 10:16:11 AM EDT

[#20]

"Yet another reason to not even have those things!"

The FA is essential to the rifle. I wouldn't use one without it. It is the only way to ensure the bolt doesn't somehow get stuck in such a way I can't shotgun and can't get it to go forward.

Posted: 1/16/2006 10:18:21 AM EDT

[#21]

Quoted:
"Yet another reason to not even have those things!"
The FA is essential to the rifle. I wouldn't use one without it. It is the only way to ensure the bolt doesn't somehow get stuck in such a way I can't shotgun and can't get it to go forward.

Let's not start this argument again.

Posted: 1/16/2006 10:28:43 AM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:
User error

I love it when people take an OBVIOUSLY sarcastic remark seriously.

"Duhhhh.... How could it be a user error?"

Posted: 1/16/2006 10:46:32 AM EDT

[#23]

Quoted:
Quoted:
User error

I love it when people take an OBVIOUSLY sarcastic remark seriously.

"Duhhhh.... How could it be a user error?"

With Cult rhetoric, you never know.

Posted: 1/16/2006 11:23:12 AM EDT

[#24]

ajdrr,

I may have missed it, but did you ever contact Colt, and if so, what did they say?

Posted: 1/16/2006 11:29:59 AM EDT

[#25]

Quoted:
ajdrr,

I may have missed it, but did you ever contact Colt, and if so, what did they say?

Las post on page 2

Quoted:
I called Colt. They are very sorry. They "will call me back when they find the part number for the pin, since the guy who knows the number was not available".