I used an HSGI Wasatch with Camelbak and Lightfighter RAID pack.  I carried 12 rifle mags, 6 .45 mags, 3 liters of water, and 2 SAPI plates (until I finally decided discretion really WAS the best part of valor and ditched them for the remainder of the class..

The only reason I hesitate on thigh rigs is because (now keep in mind I've never worn one) it seems like they would flop all over the place while you ran. Does this happen or no? I think I would like them but I'd hate to waste the money on something that I ended up hating.

Thanks.

Quoted: The only reason I hesitate on thigh rigs is because (now keep in mind I've never worn one) it seems like they would flop all over the place while you ran. Does this happen or no? I think I would like them but I'd hate to waste the money on something that I ended up hating. Thanks.

When you say "Thigh rig" are you meaning a pistol holster?

Both a drop leg pistol holster (right leg) and a thigh mag pouch thing (left leg).

Mag pouch=bad idea.  Holster is fine, depending on the model.  No nylon.  Safariland 6004 or G-Code are what you want.  No flopping.

Roger that on a "hard" drop holster.


Some mag rigs are OK on your leg.  No more than two 30rd mags though.

I used a thigh double mag pouch(CQB Solutions). It worked out pretty well for me as I have long legs. It didn't block my BDU pocket. I plan on getting a chest rig to try out.

Even though I didn't use a drop leg holster, Safariland or other good Kydex holster is the way to go. Being able to do a no look, no fumble reholster is a good thing. Might not matter in a class setting but could in a high tension enviroment.

Awesome, guys. Thanks!

I used the 4 mag version of CQB solution's drop leg mag pouches. It was fine. It rattled a bit, but I wasn't out on a LRRP op or something. It took some getting used to, moving around with it on. By day three, it was second nature. It didn't "flop" at all. It has two leg straps that go around the leg, like the Safariland holster.

Am I retarded or do they not make a Safariland 6004 to fit a Springfield XD 9mm subcompact (3" barrel)?


Edit: Well I emailed Safariland, guess I'll find out.

Since this thread is getting so much attention, (probably should be in the Tactics and Training Section) I'll post my thoughts on this past weekend's TFTT Advanced Tactical Rifle Course held near Ennis, Texas. For those of you who aren't familar with TFTT ( www.tftt.com), its ran by Max Joseph, a former Marine. Max is one of those guys who has been there, done that and is still doing it.  An arm of TFTT is the Direct Action Group, a private security company that is running missions in the Middle East as we speak.

The course itself was 2 days long and was definitely not a basic course. It consisted of shooting mainly between 100 and 300 yards from various fighting positions from behind cover (sort of what one might experience in actual combat, something a lot courses fall short of). I have attended over 360 hours of civilian firearms training, having trained with such notables as Robert Duhon, Andy Stanford, Massad Ayoob, Bennie Cooley, Jeff Gonzales, Steve Moses, Tom Givens, T. J. Piling and Greg Hamilton. This was my 5th carbine/rifle course.

In this course, you always started about 15-20 yds behind your shooting point. At the command, you ran up to the shooting point, assumed whatever position, and commenced firing the string of fire. After firing, you stood up, and went back to the starting point, and started over. This conditioned the shooter to move to cover as quickly as possible.

Over the 2 days we shot over 550 rounds at IPSC targets, realistic paper targets and steel. It was a well designed course that ended with team movements and break contact drills. For those who are contemplating taking a course from TFTT, get ready.  Max's style is heavily influenced by his Marine Corp heritage. He doesn't sugar coat anything, including the ass-chewings for screwing up. This is an intense course that is not for the casual shooter. Max is not a big fan of optics of any kind and prefers using iron sights. Although the results of this weekend course may change that. All the Aimpoint guys were shooting better than the iron sight guys.

Since everybody seems interested in equipment, here is what I shot and the equipment I used.

I shot my Colt lower/FN upper with DPMS M-4 contour barrel. This carbine ( or rifle as Max prefers) has shot every course I have taken and is extrordinarly reliable. I have an Aimpoint CompML mounted using a ARMS cantilever mount. It has First Saamco M-33 handguards with a forward grip. I used a ARMS 40 BUIS. This carbine sports an Armalite 2 stage match trigger.

I shot my handloads using H-335 and Remington 55 FMJ bullets. They shot great and in this course I had no malfunctions or ammo related issues.

I used a slightly modified CQB solutions MK-1 Chest rig and a Eagle drop leg mag pouch.

One of my buddy's shoots a near identical carbine and the other shot a stock Rock River. Once again, no issues of any kind. They both shot Winchester Q3131A ammo.

We all used single point slings made my ME223 (a guy on this board).

We used about 6 magazines during the course. All this talk about taking 30 magazines seems a little overkill to me. I forgot to add that Max makes anybody who wears armour in their respective line of work to wear it to train in. Fortunately for me, I'm just a lowly civilian, but the cops, ppo's had to wear their vests.

Any questions?

Quoted: wow sounds like a great class, I have heard great things about Pat and you just confirmed them even more

Thinkin what I'm thinkin?

Great report!

For those that are looking for a nylon drop leg holster rather than Kydex, I have had great results with my HSGI rig.  Reholsters are a snap.  Adjusted correctly there is absolutely no flop, even under strenuous movement, one of the best holsters I have worn.

More Info  : :  HSGI

The biggest problem that I see with folks using drop leg holsters is that they really think "drop leg" means that is has to be on the leg.  I use a POS BHI holster for my M9 and it actually works fine, but I only have one leg strap on it.  some folks I see wearing drop legs have to bend at the waist to get their pistols....................

Quoted: For those that are looking for a nylon drop leg holster rather than Kydex, I have had great results with my HSGI rig.  Reholsters are a snap.  Adjusted correctly there is absolutely no flop, even under strenuous movement, one of the best holsters I have worn. More Info  : :  HSGI

Well, the other issue with nylon holsters is retention.  Someone lost his sidearm in our class and Pat found it before he knew it was gone.  I can learn from others' getting the Big Moose Cock, so I ordered a 6004 the next morning.

Quoted: Over the 2 days we shot over 550 rounds at IPSC targets, realistic paper targets and steel. It was a well designed course that ended with team movements and break contact drills. For those who are contemplating taking a course from TFTT, get ready.  Max's style is heavily influenced by his Marine Corp heritage. He doesn't sugar coat anything, including the ass-chewings for screwing up. This is an intense course that is not for the casual shooter. Max is not a big fan of optics of any kind and prefers using iron sights. Although the results of this weekend course may change that. All the Aimpoint guys were shooting better than the iron sight guys. this is no great surprise.  If he doesn't change his doctrine I would find another instructor. Since everybody seems interested in equipment, here is what I shot and the equipment I used. I shot my Colt lower/FN upper with DPMS M-4 contour barrel. This carbine ( or rifle as Max prefers) has shot every course I have taken and is extrordinarly reliable. I have an Aimpoint CompML mounted using a ARMS cantilever mount. It has First Saamco M-33 handguards with a forward grip. I used a ARMS 40 BUIS. This carbine sports an Armalite 2 stage match trigger. I shot my handloads using H-335 and Remington 55 FMJ bullets. They shot great and in this course I had no malfunctions or ammo related issues. I used a slightly modified CQB solutions MK-1 Chest rig and a Eagle drop leg mag pouch. One of my buddy's shoots a near identical carbine and the other shot a stock Rock River. Once again, no issues of any kind. They both shot Winchester Q3131A ammo. We all used single point slings made my ME223 (a guy on this board). We used about 6 magazines during the course. All this talk about taking 30 magazines seems a little overkill to me.   you didn't shoot nearly as much as we did.  I went through 1300 rounds in three days.  Having a shitload of mags allows you to spend time training and not jamming mags. Any questions?

You did just about everything Pat Rogers warned us about NOT doing....match triggers, some homemade gear, and non-factory ammo.  

Quoted: ........... “Match” triggers are too fragile. (The sole class example lasted ONE SHOT!) .........

That statement needs to be posted in this thread:

trigger thread.....

Quoted: Well, the other issue with nylon holsters is retention.  Someone lost his sidearm in our class and Pat found it before he knew it was gone.  I can learn from others' getting the Big Moose Cock, so I ordered a 6004 the next morning.

Dam I wonder who that was?  with the addition of the telephone cord no problems,  Just dont get it caught up in your rappel rope LOL

I've taken 223 and the advanced 556(2X) course at Gunsite, both 556's with Pat Rogers.  I would say that they are "civilian-friendly", both in content and atmosphere.  The 223 course is, as stated before, a "Meet Your Carbine" type of thing.  You cover everything from fixed range position shooting to intro to bulding clearance.  In the 556 course, the focus is definitely on fighting with the carbine(most ranges 50yds or less, lots of rounds, multiple targets and movement) but Pat doesn't work on military issues to the exclusion of civilian issues.   The course can be done quite easily with non"high-speed" gear.  I used a carbine, a pistol in a belt holster and a single mag carrier on the belt.  Being able to carry extra mags is nice but I found stuffing one in each back pocket was sufficient.  I would highly recommend either of these classes to anyone wanting to train in the use of their carbine

Quietshooter,

Everything worked flawlessly., my carbine, my ammo and my modified chest rig. Me and my buddies all use 2-stage match triggers. The right ones are not fragile. And, its not the quantity of ammo that's shot that determines the usefulness of the training. Howver, you usually need to shoot more in a basic course. Max's course was not a basic course.

Quoted: The only reason I hesitate on thigh rigs is because (now keep in mind I've never worn one) it seems like they would flop all over the place while you ran. Does this happen or no? I think I would like them but I'd hate to waste the money on something that I ended up hating. Thanks.

I use a Safariland 6004 drop leg and I've had belt holsters that flopped around more than it does.  

The trigger thread linked to before reminded me what kind of trigger it was that went TU. Accuracy Speaks.

Quoted: The trigger thread linked to before reminded me what kind of trigger it was that went TU. Accuracy Speaks.

Bummer! many claim it's the only match trigger durable enough for duty use.  It's what i run in one of my M4's.  Can you elaborate of the type of failure?  worn parts?  Broken parts? doubling?

Wow, this is the best thread I've read in days.  I've got to get up to Gunsite...

Quoted: The trigger thread linked to before reminded me what kind of trigger it was that went TU. Accuracy Speaks.

So if you don't use what is widely regarded as the most reliable aftermarket trigger then what is left?  Stock trigger?  Stock trigger with reduced power springs?

Glad I read that before equipping my two AR-15s and AR-10 with one.

Vertical grips?

Were they useful or just toys that got removed?  At the range I like mine and it seems to work well to help me steady my somewhat heavy carbine.

Quoted: Quoted: The trigger thread linked to before reminded me what kind of trigger it was that went TU. Accuracy Speaks. So if you don't use what is widely regarded as the most reliable aftermarket trigger then is left?  Stock trigger?

IME "stock" triggers vary greatly.  The trigger groups that came in my Colts are nice. The trigger group that came in my preban Eagle Arms a machined and polished work of art.  The trigger group parts that came in my Olympic Arms guns are crap. Spongy pull  with lots of flashing on the hammer, it suspect they are cast parts.  Same with the hammers I got from Bushmaster and DPMS.

I suspect Bushmaster, DPMS, and Oly all get their triggers and hammers the same place.

I suspect LMT & Colt actually make their own triggers and hammers, and that LMT supplied Eagle Arms back in the day.

IMO, the AR based carbine is a working rifle, and that means that a target type trigger has no place on one. Shooting 1" groups at 100 yards isn't what the carbine is there for. Now, I can certainly see a use for a nice trigger on an AR filling the sniper/counter-sniper role, but on a carbine?

As for vertical grips, I prefer them, though you don't have to have one, since you can grab the mag well and  use it much the same way as you use a vertical grip. And, now that I have used one for 5 days, might as well stick with what you're trained on, right?

Yep... match triggers bad.  The only one I would even consider on a weapon (as opposed to a range toy) is the KAC, and even then I still wouldn't do it.  Stock trigger is the way to go.  We had one match trigger go TU in our class too, I believe it was the RRA.  Stay stock...add Colt hammer and trigger if you can.  Edit: DON'T use reduced power springs.  Some ammo won't fire with reduced power hammer springs.  I actually use Wolff XP hammer springs in my guns.

Other notes: a good dump pouch makes life very much easier.  Have a mag or two designated as the 'emergency reload' pouch, and leave them alone unless you're speed loading.  On my rig, that's the second pair of mags from the left.  I use the other pouches for tac loading and administrative loading.  (YMMV, but the Wasatch carries 12 mags as a basic load, in six pouches across the front, which makes this easier.)

As PSYWAR said, don't make the class the first time you spend a day in your gear.  You're fucking up the class for everyone else.

Quoted: Quietshooter, Everything worked flawlessly., my carbine, my ammo and my modified chest rig. Me and my buddies all use 2-stage match triggers. The right ones are not fragile. And, its not the quantity of ammo that's shot that determines the usefulness of the training. Howver, you usually need to shoot more in a basic course. Max's course was not a basic course.

Actually, they ARE fragile.  You and you friends have been lucky, or more likely you've not shot enough to cause them to fail.  It's your gun, if it makes you happy stick with it.

Quoted: Hakko is shit made for Airsofters. Just wait till Lumpy sees this thread!

+1

Quoted: Wow, this is the best thread I've read in days.  I've got to get up to Gunsite or anywhere else that gives quality training...

Being a wannabee, I need to get my ass into some training ASAP.

One can tell from the comments in this post that we all tend to concentrate on equipment and such. Just compare this board with the Tactics and Training section. I've been guilty myself. However, in my opinion, training and skills far exceed the importance of having the latest in high tech gadgetry. I can not fault trainers like Max Joseph for emphasizing the importance of the simplicity of iron sights and such. I happen to like my Aimpoint, but I also have and know how to use my back-up iron sights. I think too many folks on this board are more interested in the gadgetry and not the end use of the carbine/rifle.

Quiteshooter, . . . oh, never mind.

Quoted: One can tell from the comments in this post that we all tend to concentrate on equipment and such. Just compare this board with the Tactics and Training section. I've been guilty myself. However, in my opinion, training and skills far exceed the importance of having the latest in high tech gadgetry.

Oh I absolutely agree,  training is far more useful than anything in Blackhawk's catalog. I think the focus in this thread was more about what gear actually worked when put to real use in a training class (and by extension, during duty/SHTF use), not so much which gear is coolest. Personally, I'm just trying to avoid money on equipment that just plain don't work.  I don't want to find out my 50000 cordura nylon nightvision goggle fastex holster rusts in the sunlight when my life depends on it.


Oh, and Safariland got back to me, they don't make the 6004 for a XD9 3-incher.

What is it eaxactly about match triggers that makes them prone to failure?  Is it bad springs?  Do the triggers not reset, or is it some other part?  Does this  warning apply to only lightweight single stage triggers or does it also apply to two-stage triggers (4.5 lb pull) used in Service Rifle competition?  I'm thinking CLE or Holliger modified RRA triggers when I ask this, not Jewel's which are completely different design.

That was the point of me posting my "report" here in the first place.

I asked Pat where I should post this, and he said he didn't really care. His opinion of boards like this (especially this one) isn't very high. However, I wanted to at least let everyone know how it went for me, personally, and if this saves one person from wasting time and or money on stuff that doesn't work, well, then it's worth it.

training is far more useful than anything in Blackhawk's catalog

GOOD training is far more useful than anything in Blackhawk's catalog.  There are a lot of crap instructors in the world that will get you killed however.  BAD training is on par with the stuff in BHI's catalog.  Stick with a reputable place like Thunder Ranch, Gunsite, Blackwater, CSAT.  No training is better than bad training.

Quoted: Well, the other issue with nylon holsters is retention.  Someone lost his sidearm in our class and Pat found it before he knew it was gone.  I can learn from others' getting the Big Moose Cock, so I ordered a 6004 the next morning.

Retention is not a problem with the HSGI rig.  The holster is boned to your specific model so it holds just as well as a kydex holster.  There is also a thumb break and for serious physical activity there is a "jump" strap that pretty much means the pistol is going nowhere unless the whole rig is torn off your thigh.

As for placement, I too have seen drop leg holsters so low they almost needed an integrated knee pad.  I adjust my rig so the top of my pistol is just about 2 inches below my belt.

Quoted: Stock trigger is the way to go.

How do you insure you get a good "stock" trigger.  By good, I don't mean a light triger pull, I mean a durable forged part.  How do you ensure you dont end up with a cast hammer that will break at some point? There is not "mil-spec" semi auto trigger group.  There are some internals of very questionable quality, including made in china cast parts.  Those parts find their way into many "manufacturers" (assembleers) complete rifles and parts kits.  Are there any forging marks we can look for on a hammer to verify its a forged part made by Colt, LMT, or another reputable manufacturer?

I would still like to know the exact nature of the Accuracy speaks trigger failure. I have seen broken hammers and worn extractors in "stock" triggers. what other types of parts failures are common with trigger groups?

Quoted: What is it eaxactly about match triggers that makes them prone to failure?

Adjustment screws backing out. sometimes to the point of falling into the mechanism and tying up the trigger group.  Thats why the Accuracy Speaks is generally recommended, no set screws to back out.

Quoted: Quoted: What is it eaxactly about match triggers that makes them prone to failure? Adjustment screws backing out. sometimes to the point of falling into the mechanism and tying up the trigger group.  Thats why the Accuracy Speaks is generally recommended, no set screws to back out.

I guess my understanding of the Jewell trigger, I'm pretty sure they have adjustment screws you mentioned.  But does the RRA or CLE trigger have these screws too?  I thought they were essentially polished stock parts, or slightly modified stock parts with better springs incorporated, but no little, delicate screws or adjustments.

Quoted: I guess my understanding of the Jewell trigger, I'm pretty sure they have adjustment screws you mentioned.  But does the RRA or CLE trigger have these screws too?  I thought they were essentially polished stock parts, or slightly modified stock parts with better springs incorporated, but no little, delicate screws or adjustments.

I'm pretty sure the compass lake trigger has screws.  I know the RRA trigger doesn't have screws.  Neither of these are anything close to stock, which makes sense when you ralize that stock is a single stage and these are 2-stage.  The RRA looks more like an M1A trigger than an AR trigger.

The Accuracy Speaks single stage trigger is the one that is basically a regular trigger that is just made to tighter tolerances.  The Colt trigger upgrade is also a normal trigger but it is hard chromed to make it smoother.

I don't think Colt is making their own fire control components anymore.  I noticed a while back that RRA and Colt fire control components were identical with the exception of the hammer.  In fact, the last RRA lower parts kit I bought had a Colt marked disconnector.  I recently purchased a Colt LE6920 and noticed that the hammer is identical to an RRA hammer so I think that Colt has found a supplier they like and is outsourcing all the componenets now.

Quoted:
I don't think Colt is making their own fire control components anymore.  I think you're right but I was talking about their "match trigger" or whatever they call it. It uses a regular trigger and a lightweight hammer that are all hard chromed to make it all smooth.  It isn't a 'real' match trigger because there's still all the creep you get with a normal trigger but it is smoother and lighter.  It also comes with hard chromed pins but I didn't like the shiny 'dots' showing on the sides of hte lower so I kept the original pins in place.

Quoted: That was the point of me posting my "report" here in the first place. I asked Pat where I should post this, and he said he didn't really care. His opinion of boards like this (especially this one) isn't very high. However, I wanted to at least let everyone know how it went for me, personally, and if this saves one person from wasting time and or money on stuff that doesn't work, well, then it's worth it.

And some of the comments in this thread are why he doesn't think much of boards like this.  You have a guy doing the exact opposite of things that are known to work in the real world, not in the Missouri Militia, and getting all offended when someone points out that there are some folks that know more and have more current information.

Carry on, kids.  I have nothing more to say.

Ah what the hell. I'll  throw in My Experience at a 3 day Carbine course with Pat. Besides the fact that it was awesome and I got to meet a bunch of cool MutherF$%$er's who like the toy's I like and I got to shoot copius amounts of ammo, I got to learn some really good techniques and try things that I normally would not have the opprotunity. and Most importantly,I got to put my Weapon to a pretty good workout and feel HIGHLY confident that it WILL work when I need it to and that I have the skill to use it.
As to Weapon/AMMo
XM193 all the way. shit rocks, capped off about 920 rds in 3 days and no problems. Preloaded on Stripper clips and 30 preloaded mags (lets ya bullshit,Hydrate and snack while others arre jammin mags) I had a LULA but never used it. Others were using the mag loader you get with a Beta Mag and stripper clips as well.
Mags were all GI, with a mix of Sanchez/Cooper/Adventureline all had green GI follower's and stock issued springs. I also used Old style mag pulls which were nice, gave ya a good place to grab onto the mag for Quick reloads and protected them when ya dropped them. All my mags fuctioned flawlessly.

Weapon
10 year old Stock Bushmaster XM15 with a 1 year old Busher flattop Upper ( I finely converted after all those years with a fixed upper) 16" HBAR (Sorry Forest!!) ... RAS and Vltor Carbine Mod stock with a Tango Down Pistol Grip and a KAC Vertical Foregrip. Sights were a Aimpoint (Duh) with a ARMS 22M68 and cantilever spacer and an ARMS 40BUIS
Sling was a Wilderness Single point witth a Daniel Defense Plate.
This weapon had about 5-6K thru it prior to the class. All the internals were factory Bushmaster.. I replaced the extractor spring and insert with a GI issue M-4 spring and black Insert about 1K prior to the class and My lube of choice was good ol'e CLP and nuthin else.
Weapon fuctioned flawlessly and I never had a problem, I cleaned it after the end of each day and took about 20 mins to do it. I never cleaned the barrel once. just the bolt and the chamber and left a light coat of CLP .
after the class I have decided I am happy with this set up and would not change a thing. The Aimpoint rocks and I left the sight on all day every day. Only thing I would change on the Aimpoint is to have a more aggressive click on/off switch. I noticed a few times my switch would roll off its setting. I would notice when I come up to shoot from a low ready and notice the dot brightness had changed. and one time it rolled off, so I lined the front sight post up in the center of the Aimpoint and pressed the trigger and got normal hits centermass at 25yards. (I don't like a fixed BUIS, personnel prefference) and I was non the worse for it.

The DD sling plate is good as it keeps the meat on your hand when your operating the charging handle. I wore Nomex CVC gloves and never had a problem. The sling is simple and stays out off the way. if you pull the weapon outboard like Pat teaches, the weapon is out off your way for pistol transittions and stays put. The RAS is still tried and true in my book and I like the KAC VFG cause the profile fits my hand good and I can position it close to the Mag well. during zero on my belly I could place a 5 shot string in a Quarter with good trigger manipulation at 50yds. works for me.

As to gear
I ran with a Tactical Tailor TAC-1 vest which I like ALOT. I had them modify the (My) ride side Utility pouch and replace it with there 3 mag pistol pouch with Kydex inserts. Tac reloads were fast . Most vest's have the pistol pouch on the left side of the vest. but I recommend you try it on the right. you support hand as you pull it towards your chest pretty much comes right to the mags and it's a short distance back out to your pistol..  The mag pouches have shock cord that can be adjusted for 1 or 2 mags. the vest can hold 12 but I run witth 6 as it makes the prone more comfy. plus with the shock cord. it will secure your mag with tthe flap tucked behind the mag for quick access. and a 100OZ bladder fits on tthe back off the vest in a Bladder pouch which fits like a glove. I like a vest over a chest rig as I do not need the ease in getting in and out of vehicles. and I really don't need modular cause I never had it and it just makes me putz with stuff all the time (read buy new pouches,etc) and since I'm retired with Uncle Sugar, Bagdad is not on my list of family vacations any time soon

have some type of scarf,Schemagh,Bandanna to go arround your neck as it keeps the hot brass out from your classmates on your left(Mental note,, next class, be on lane 1!!!) and it can wipe the sweat off your brow.

Everyone had a Peltor Com Tac type electric set of muffs (everyone but me) I ran with an old low profile plain jane non electric pair I;ve had for about 15 years. worked peachy. Plus Pat had everryone removing them alot anyhow so he new everyone could hear him!!!. I did try a classmates electric pair and they are NICE!! and on my list.(right after a shot timer)  I ran a plain old Black hawk GI Modified Pistol belt and on it I had a SOE Drop Leg for My 1911. I also ran with a SoTech 3 mag Shingle on a SoTech Drop Leg Panel. At first I thought I would not Like a Drop Leg Mag Pouch, but I really like my Set up. the panel is smaller then most. it has a Fastex disconnect on the hanger just like My Holster and it does not stick out. I only ran with 2 mags in it as I agree 100% with Monty about 2 is the limit. I am going to either seek out the elusive 2 mag shingle from SoTech or try  2 of the Tactical Tailor single mag open top pouches with the bungee retention cord. The leg rig stayed in place. did not flop around when running from 50 to 25yd line, it was comfortable and did not feel tight. and the panel has a hiden pocket to insert a notebook and pen with quick Access.

I kept my leatherman WAVE or as Pat calls them (Cool guy tool) in the mag pouch on my holster. it works great there, and was easy to access if I needed to make an adjustment on my Aimpoint,etc.). I also ran witth a MM Dump Pouch on my belt from Maxpedition gear. awesome kit, fold up and out of the way. when I needed pistol ammo to reload between drills, I just dumped a box off 50 in it and  I could reach in and grab a handfull and reload

I ran with Alta Kneepads with the Buckle Closure and they are as good as everyone says. tighten the bottom strap snug and the top strap keep a little loose and I never had them fall down or had to pull them up once in 3 days.

Bring water and drink alot. I don't think a lot of peaple drank as much as they should have. bring the snacks/powerbars of your choice and kick back and catch a few of Pat's Awesome war stories (along with some good ones from your fellow classmates as well)

If ya get the chance, catch one off Pat's Classes or anyone else tthat comes witth a good recommendation. it puts your weapon ,gear, doodads and ammo to the test and you learn from other's what works, what needs to be changed and most importantly... How you work, what you need to change and what you do good!! I hope this helps

As to 30 mags being overkill, every one you have that is loaded means less reloads, more rest time. I guess I should have added that my wife was in the course with me, but if I had had 50 mags loaded up I would have taken them. Together, in the 5 day Urban Rifle course, we went through an entire 2700 round tub of South African and a 800 round can of malaysian, lots of trigger time! Clint also heavily emphasizes using irons, which we did, But, for most folks over thirty, I would recommend a reliable optic like an Aimpoint or an ACOG, the guys that had them did much better at the longer ranges. Just my .02.

Quoted: ....and 30 preloaded mags (lets ya bullshit,Hydrate and snack while others arre jammin mags)

I do the same for FIRE course - it works great.  I load them the night before the class while watching TV or talking.

10 year old Stock Bushmaster XM15 with a 1 year old Busher flattop Upper ( I finely converted after all those years with a fixed upper) 16" HBAR (Sorry Forest!!) .

Don't worry - we'll bring you over to the 'Light Side' yet...

I ran with Alta Kneepads with the Buckle Closure and they are as good as everyone says.

+1

Quoted: Quoted: Wow, this is the best thread I've read in days.  I've got to get up to Gunsite or anywhere else that gives quality training... Being a wannabee, I need to get my ass into some training ASAP.

Warning:

Going to training schools IS addictive...you have been warned..........