Originally Posted By: dennysguns:  I really don't like to see guys dogged out when they show their rifle, one they are proud of.

Agreed

It amazes me how many LB critics sound off and have never owned or had any serious trigger time on one.


The same ones that prefer to build their own, roll their own, or fix it themselves - and  knock the guy who would rather go straight to the finish line and buy one ready to go

I get this image of a guy calling Dodge Viper a POS while showing off his 11 sec 1/4 garage build.




Opinions - in philosophy or firearm preferences - should be respected even when they differ from our own

I have a wife that shoots my 1/2 inch...
I have a Rolex that cheats on me...

I have a pre ban stock triggered/handguard Colt HBAR 1-7 20 inch that managed a 3/4 inch 100 yard group with three rounds of standard 55 grainers through a dirty barrel from a sandbag.  And at $1100 even during the ban, I am sure people will say I paid too much.  Of course I've never shot it again-wouldn't want it to un-break that record right...?  

Seriously, the guy wanted it, had the money, and bought it.  He did bring a bit of heat on himself by the nature of a poll for $$$ though...

It is assembled by LesBaer, which does assume some liability for the weapon if it's use is for an LEO, and was either purchased by the department or a tax right off for his job.  And I thought most urban police sniper shoots average 70 yards, so I would also have gone with a little less magnification personally and of course use heavier bullets (I would also feel more comfortable with a .308 in that roll as well).

Regardless, sweet rifle, use it in good health & public safety if that is your intended roll.

I don`t have a problem with him buying Les Baer its his money.  However, the snobs can check their social class attitudes at the door.

It's funny how LB products enrage so many people.

Some people group Wilson and LB together. This seems a little unfair as Les Baer is doing things to try and make a truly great AR. Things such as uppers and lowers drilled as a set, using Young carriers and bolts (you can bet head spacing is spot on, not just sloppy mil spec), Hornady specific chambers ,etc. The only place they fall short is in the accessory dept.

Denny has shown a cost of about $2500
Noveske will cost about $2500
Les Bear ...............about $2500
I have NEVER seen a thread saying "That Noveske is junk, I built one for $1000" " Denny sucks you Hummer driving, swamp dwelling ahole, my Oly shoots 1/8 groups in a gale wind"

And guess what? the only difference in quality between a Noveske and a Baer ( if using similiar barrels) is a fancy forearm and a trendy folding stock. And yes, for $2500 you should be getting a PRI or larue, but that doesn't make the gun junk.

NICE SHOOTING  -AFSOC  

Another big difference is that the guy that spends $1100 on a build that shoots 1/2" or better (it amazes me how many ultra accurate ARs there are out ther) will probably get $500-$600 for it on the market. That Les Baer will easily bring $2000-$2200.

Quoted: It's funny how LB products enrage so many people. Some people group Wilson and LB together. This seems a little unfair as Les Baer is doing things to try and make a truly great AR. Things such as uppers and lowers drilled as a set, using Young carriers and bolts (you can bet head spacing is spot on, not just sloppy mil spec), Hornady specific chambers ,etc. The only place they fall short is in the accessory dept. Denny has shown a cost of about $2500 Noveske will cost about $2500 Les Bear ...............about $2500 I have NEVER seen a thread saying "That Noveske is junk, I built one for $1000" " Denny sucks you Hummer driving, swamp dwelling ahole, my Oly shoots 1/8 groups in a gale wind" And guess what? the only difference in quality between a Noveske and a Baer ( if using similiar barrels) is a fancy forearm and a trendy folding stock. And yes, for $2500 you should be getting a PRI or larue, but that doesn't make the gun junk.

the two mentioned to compare with lb you get a rifle that shoots and looks like $2500 with the lb you get a varmint rifle that shoots but cost a bit more.

Quoted: Another big difference is that the guy that spends $1100 on a build that shoots 1/2" or better (it amazes me how many ultra accurate ARs there are out ther) will probably get $500-$600 for it on the market.

Unless he parts it out here on the EE... in which case he'll do a lot better than what the rifle as a whole would sell for and probably get rid of it quicker too.

Quoted: Quoted: Another big difference is that the guy that spends $1100 on a build that shoots 1/2" or better (it amazes me how many ultra accurate ARs there are out ther) will probably get $500-$600 for it on the market. Unless he parts it out here on the EE... in which case he'll do a lot better than what the rifle as a whole would sell for and probably get rid of it quicker too.

i wouldnt give 6-700 for a varmint rifle no matter who it came from.

Quoted: Another big difference is that the guy that spends $1100 on a build that shoots 1/2" or better (it amazes me how many ultra accurate ARs there are out ther) will probably get $500-$600 for it on the market. That Les Baer will easily bring $2000-$2200.

Not on AR15.com it will not maybe on gun broker.  Besides are you not still losing what a custom upper cost to build?

This was a very educational thread, coming form a total newbie.  he
I don’t know enough to offer any comment, but thank you to those who did.  

Wow, I wish I could get a .25 inch group from 5 bullets measuring .224 inches wide That's almost all in the same hole...

Quoted: Wow, I wish I could get a .25 inch group from 5 bullets measuring .224 inches wide That's almost all in the same hole...

Groups are measured from center to center... take the widest measurement of the group and subtract the dia of the round fired -- a 1/4MOA group for .223 is actually just under a half inch at the widest part.

Super Nice Rifle

Talking about resale value of a Les Baer,this guy has been trying to sell this one for awhile with no bites and a great price (comapred to the new cost of one).
www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=7&f=21&t=310372

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I've got a Les Baer AR and I absolutely love it.  If I were to ever have a custom AR built, I would be doing as much to possible to copy exactly what I bought from Les Baer.  I've got a Les Baer 1911 that I also absolutely love and this is what turned me towards to the LBC products.  Yes, they are expensive, but I feel they are worth it.  The accuracy and fit and finish are top notch.  I ordered a standard model and only had to wait two months, which I didn't think was too bad.  If I ordered a custom AR from one of the guys here like Denny, I bet the wait would be at least a month.  I would have also considered a used model, but they are near impossible to find. There seems to be a large anti-LBC crowd on this forum with their biggest complaint being the price.  However, none of these individuals seem to have owned or shot a Les Baer AR (and a lot of them have never even handled one), so I don't have much use for their opinion.  When I made my decision on whether or not to buy a Les Baer, I made the decision based on the opinion of others who actually own or have handled/fired the rifles. I've noticed that Mongo makes it his life's purpose to rip on Baer products at every chance he gets from what I've observed on this forum during the last year.  He must have grown up poor and still feels insecure about it considering his comments on the Hummer and Camaro and those evil rich kids.  If you own a Les Baer, then you are "rich" and have more money than brains, right Mongo?  Considering your lack of personal experience with the Baer AR's, I also don't consider your opinion of the Baer rifles to be of any value. I also can't help but laugh at Yellow's comments about out of the box Bushmaster's pulling in 1/4" groups.  It's hard to take anything else he says seriously after reading that. It is just to bad that the Al Bundys and car mechanics of this world will never get a chance to experience the finer things in life. Now your just being a troll. What you fail to understand is that when it comes to AR's, the people that ACTUALLY know what the hell they're talking about don't consider Les Baer to be anything special.  IMHO, the majority of the buyers are clueless, and are just buying the name.   I don't think there's any conspiracy against the Les Baer products, it's just that people are ASSUMING that since they pay out the ass for these guns, they must be the best.  I hate to break it to you dick, but they're not. If you want to experience the finer things in life, call George at GAP, and have him build you a rifle.  If you want to tell the world just how little you know about AR's, post pics of your LBC. P.S. - I'm still waiting on pics of those 1/4" groups.

I'd love to see a 15 or even a 10 shot group as requested earlier.  A damn CMMG rifle with a BSA scope was shooting 15 SHOT GROUPS as good as a rifle 2X as much does for 3 SHOTS.

I also love how this got turned by a few into a "Come now, Jeeves...lets stand from our perch and urinate onto the lowly poor folks who know more about firearms than we do and build better ARs than we waste money on" discussion.  "Finer things in life" my ass.  So funny how defensive they get when people who know more simply try to point out the reality of the situation.  Are they getting defensive because they realize they got hosed?

Lastly, I agree that it is newbs who usually dish out the money for a LBC rifle.  They almost always have the lowest post/time counts around, and usually ask retarded questions hoping for a pat on the back for their Gucci J&T/RRA varminter that they wasted cash on.  They also point out that most of the detractors of LBC ARs have never held one so they can't really know what they're talking about.  HOWEVER, does one need to drive a previously mentioned Ferrari to know they'd love to have one, or drive an H2 to know it's a POS?  No we don't.  Do we need to court a super model and feel her up to know we'd like to have sex with her...I dare say "NO".  Previous experience in related fields affords us the ability to make judgements with a fair level of certainty on the products we choose to buy or not.  

All that being said, if someone is happy with their 3k + LBC, great.  But don't get huffy when more knowledgable people point out that a better rifle could be had from various other custom makers...especially for a "Sniper" rifle as this was touted to be.  I wonder how many snipers are using LBC rifles?  I'm sure many would attest that there ARE snipers using rifles/uppers from MSTN, ADCO, etc.

Quoted: The same ones that prefer to build their own, roll their own, or fix it themselves - and  knock the guy who would rather go straight to the finish line and buy one ready to go.

Wrong.  

There's nothing wrong with buying a custom rifle, and taking pride in that ownership.  I would not criticize anyone for going that route, as some have the skills to do the work themselves, and some don't.

I get this image of a guy calling Dodge Viper a POS while showing off his 11 sec 1/4 garage build. img.photobucket.com/albums/v400/redfisher19/homemadecar.jpg Opinions - in philosophy or firearm preferences - should be respected even when they differ from our own

I get the opposite picture in my mind.  I see someone that drives a Ferrari kit car, showing up at a Ferrari club meeting.  The guy is claiming to have something exclusive, and the general public may think he does, but the guys that have the real deal know better.

Here's my last precision rifle >

A GAP custom rifle, with the best of everything.


And now that I've expressed my differing opinion, let me apologize to the original poster.  My original comments in this thread were not meant to be a derogatory.  He has a very nice weapon and should take pride in it's ownership.  My other comments were born from my displeasure with some of our members who insinuated that the only reason we did not bow down and worship at the alter of LBC, was that we did not have the means to own such a rifle.

Again, my apologies, and congratulations on a nice rifle.

I have sort of held off on this thread... a few of you know of my involvment in the "sniper" arena; but, I have to make a couple of observations.

First, the LB rifle... Is the price of the rifle high? Of course it is, to the point of being a little shocking, but you are paying for the name and like someone else posted earlier -- a rolex does not keep time any better than a $70.00 casio (most likely not as good to be honest), but some folks like to be able to say they have a rolex.

I question the configuration of the rifle for LE Sniper use, I would say it is an over-scoped varmint gun, but if his agency has approved it... oh well.

Okay, how about the ability to build such a gun? There are a lot of guys out there that can build a gun that will shoot every bit as good... there are a handful of dealers on this board that offer a product every bit as good; but, the deal is that for a LE/GOV shooter, you want to go with a manufacturer that will at least fade some heat for you when you do use the product in LOD -- A reputation, demonstrable knowledge and commitment to supporting LEOs goes a long way. In fact, the builder should be willing to provide expert testimony if needed.

Hummm, 1/4 MOA accuracy... sure it happens, I think the LB actually says 1/2 MOA -- The deal is when you get down to 5 rounds in one hole, what is far more important than a 1/4 inch between groups... is the repeatability and consistancy of the CCB shot. I provide a guarentee of accuracy based on the CCB POA and POI -- people that use these understand the importance here.

But anyway... the rifle looks like a good start for a LE gun and if the guy is happy with it then great, many agencies will reimburse the officer for the purchase over the next year or two... so the money may not be an issue for him at all.

Quoted: Quoted: The same ones that prefer to build their own, roll their own, or fix it themselves - and  knock the guy who would rather go straight to the finish line and buy one ready to go. Wrong.   There's nothing wrong with buying a custom rifle, and taking pride in that ownership.  I would not criticize anyone for going that route, as some have the skills to do the work themselves, and some don't.

This implies Les Baer owners choose them because they lack the skills to build their own.

Maybe they do, maybe they don't... but the decision to buy LBC products in and of itself is not proof of either.


This is much like the age old question like "Why Mercedes Benz, Lexus, HK magazines, and so on."

To each his own

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: The same ones that prefer to build their own, roll their own, or fix it themselves - and  knock the guy who would rather go straight to the finish line and buy one ready to go. Wrong.   There's nothing wrong with buying a custom rifle, and taking pride in that ownership.  I would not criticize anyone for going that route, as some have the skills to do the work themselves, and some don't. This implies Les Baer owners choose them because they lack the skills to build their own. Maybe they do, maybe they don't... but the decision to buy LBC products in and of itself is not proof of either. This is much like the age old question like "Why Mercedes Benz, Lexus, HK magazines, and so on." To each his own

I have to disagree, if you know enough about AR`s to build your own an assumption can be made you would also know there are less expensive alternatives.  If you did not want to build it yourself then you would use one of the builders who support this site and advertise in EE.

If you want serious input on your rifle, without having to wade through the TYPICAL AR15.com bullshit, you should probably find a different forum.  

These threads get OLD fast, not to mention, they show how lame many of the members are here.  

By going somewhere else for input, you will probably here some of the same conclusions as those being drawn here, but again, without the highschool-like BS.

Good luck with your rifle.

Alot of you guys keep saying you think a .308 would be better suited. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isnt .223 ideal since it's a urban sniper rifle? In that kind of a situation you wouldn't want .308 because of overpenatration.  Last thing you need is to be shooting through a few layers of walls not knowing what your going to hit.

Well to me, a newbie, the responses he is getting on this site are as degrading and as unprofessional as you can get. I’ve built several AR's probably just as good as the ones most of you are saying will out shoot the LB for as little as $1000 to build, and no they didn't even come close to the quality and performance of the LB for that price. With that said I now own a LB and to me it is all he claimed it would be and I have no complaints. If you want to drive people away from this site good job you’ve done it as I can't stand the jealousy and school yard antics that you continually displayed on his tread.

No matter what the negative response youve got a nice rifle, you like it and thats all that matters.

Quoted: Well to me, a newbie, the responses he is getting on this site are as degrading and as unprofessional as you can get. I’ve built several AR's probably just as good as the ones most of you are saying will out shoot the LB for as little as $1000 to build, and no they didn't even come close to the quality and performance of the LB for that price. With that said I now own a LB and to me it is all he claimed it would be and I have no complaints. If you want to drive people away from this site good job you’ve done it as I can't stand the jealousy and school yard antics that you continually displayed on his tread. No matter what the negative response youve got a nice rifle, you like it and thats all that matters.

First, thank you for your service, and welcome to the site.  I'm sorry that many of us (including myself surely) have soured your image of this site.  

I think you are misinterpreting things slightly.  Yes, many of us have been bashing the LBC rifle owners decision to purchase a rifle by said company.  HOWEVER, it is not at all based on jealously.  Many of us feel there are a number of well justified (at least in our opinions) reasons why LBC rifles are overpriced and could be better substituted for with other custom rifles (for our uses/desires).  

Quoted: Alot of you guys keep saying you think a .308 would be better suited. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isnt .223 ideal since it's a urban sniper rifle? In that kind of a situation you wouldn't want .308 because of overpenatration.  Last thing you need is to be shooting through a few layers of walls not knowing what your going to hit.

The .308 penetrates glass and barriers better making it the ideal sniper cartridge at any range. You only get 1 shot.

Quoted: Well to me, a newbie, the responses he is getting on this site are as degrading and as unprofessional as you can get. I’ve built several AR's probably just as good as the ones most of you are saying will out shoot the LB for as little as $1000 to build, and no they didn't even come close to the quality and performance of the LB for that price. With that said I now own a LB and to me it is all he claimed it would be and I have no complaints. If you want to drive people away from this site good job you’ve done it as I can't stand the jealousy and school yard antics that you continually displayed on his tread. No matter what the negative response youve got a nice rifle, you like it and thats all that matters.

For the sake of arguement lets say you are a combat vet.   I would hope you have learned along the way not to let what others people say bother you.  If you do, you are going to have one miserable life.  This is the internet and is no different then any other source of information and opinions.  Take away with you what you want and leave the garbage.

Since you own a Les Baer it does not make you a disinterested party in the discussion and as such your opinion is suspect.  Too many find themselves trying to justify a purchase after the fact.  Once the decision is made who cares what others think.  The facts is if you post on this forums and ask a question don`t get upset if the answer is not what you wanted to hear.

Quoted: Nice AR!!! LBC makes some really nice ARs....don't get discouraged with your purchase as most of the people hear just don't like paying for such a high dollar AR when they can get it cheaper here on the EE. They (the ) do the same thing with Colt.

Just like I said in my first post.
Most people hear on this board feel they can get better bang for their buck buying elsewhere.  Most people who know how to hand load and find the proper combination for their "quality" AR barrel will hold 1/2MOA or lower with their AR.  It takes a lot more than a well build AR to hold 1/2moa group, and even more to hold 1/4moa.

Hopefull LB not only give you a Target prooving that it shoot 1/2moa but also give you all the load data for that group, so you can reproduce the group.

I still would buy a Colt no matter what 70% of this board says.

Buy what you like, and form you own opinions.

The guy bought the rifle he wanted and could afford!
He is happy and wanted to share...!
Now let’s quit all this horse shit and stop stepping on his DICK!
If he wants to bash his personal gear let HIM do it!
I don’t personal care for what he bought... but would I shoot it if offered the chance... Hell Yea!
I got my guns and I am happy with them, let this man be happy with his!

Super nice rifle! But on the other hand its not always the gun that is accurate its more the shooter.

This is my mut rifle. It is a RRA lower with a 2 stage and believe it or not a model 1 sales upper 1/9 twist, 24" barrel and M1s internals with a BSA scope, and a 3.5# block of lead in the but stock to help counter balance the bull barrel. She weighs in at 17.5lbs.



I can consistently shoot .45 - .5" groups with it with BH BB 75gr.





Cost for mine about 700$ MAX!  

Granted yours may shoot better longer but accuary isnt just in the gun.
Congrats on the new rifle.!!

Edit for spelling.

Quoted: Super nice rifle! But on the other hand its not always the gun that is accurate its more the shooter. This is my mut rifle. It is a RRA lower with a 2 stage and believe it or not a model 1 sales upper 1/9 twist, 24" barrel and M1s internals with a BSA scope, and a 3.5# block of lead in the but stock to help counter balance the bull barrel. She weighs in at 17.5lbs. img.photobucket.com/albums/v234/Tippman/TheAR.jpg I can consistently shoot .45 - .5" groups with it with BH BB 75gr. img.photobucket.com/albums/v234/Tippman/Prettygood.jpg img.photobucket.com/albums/v234/Tippman/Gettingbetter.jpg img.photobucket.com/albums/v234/Tippman/Target.jpg Cost for mine about 700$ MAX!   Granted yours may shoot better longer but accuary isnt just in the gun. Congrats on the new rifle.!! Edit for spelling.

Nice groups.  I built a match target AR with 26 inch barrel 1-7 twist from WOA and I had to do the same thing with the stock.  I got the lower, two stage trigger and lead weight for it from rock river.  I had to cut the weight off to get it to fit.  Did you have to trim yours?    Shoot safe.

Quoted: For the sake of arguement lets say you are a combat vet.   I would hope you have learned along the way not to let what others people say bother you.  If you do, you are going to have one miserable life.  This is the internet and is no different then any other source of information and opinions.  Take away with you what you want and leave the garbage. Since you own a Les Baer it does not make you a disinterested party in the discussion and as such your opinion is suspect.  Too many find themselves trying to justify a purchase after the fact.  Once the decision is made who cares what others think.  The facts is if you post on this forums and ask a question don`t get upset if the answer is not what you wanted to hear.

Ok for arguments sake! I don't ask for hand outs or praise and I will never stand by and let someone who knows nothing about me question my integrity. I spent the first 6 months in iraq as 95b M249 gunner,  the next 9 months in walter read and irland army hospitals recovering from my injuries after I was medivaced out of Iraq. I lost two close freinds one on MSR tampa south of biop and the other in abu-ghraib prison (if you were there you would know exactly what and where I mean). Any one who has been through what I have can certainly understand that yes we are very short tempered and things that you might consider trivial and are able to shrug off tend to set us off at the drop of a dime. As far as me and every other vet having a misserable life after this, your probably right. Weather you belive me or not thats up to you I won't discuss it any further.

With that out of the way, this whole thing is getting real petty like a bunch of jackles just picking at the guy.  Its his money either way you look at it. Cutting him down is acting plain childish weather you dislike LB products or disagree with him for buying them. I took over a year to save up for his rifle and I would do it again even knowing that their are a chosen few (Im not one of them) who could build it cheapr (I believe a little cheaper but not $1000) Everyone has their rite to an opinion in this country trust me I know this, I don't have to like it or agree with it but I was raised to respect it. If you don't like his rifle fine you don't like it  its that simple. You don't have to go the extra mile and bash it by dragging les baers name through the mud and trying to make the guy feel like an idiot for spending is hard erned money on what he wanted.  Plain and simple I think he makes excellent guns that do just what he says they will do. If you want to build one that is cheaper and can match his performance by all means do it but don't degrade someone for not agreeing with you. Don't ridicule the guy for buying what he wanted, that would be as bad as me trash talking everyone who didnt  jump on the band waggon and run down to enlist after 9/11.

I hope you all can just suport they guy and get over the fact that he is happy whith what he bought even if its not what you would have chosen. hug.gif

Quoted: Quoted: Super nice rifle! But on the other hand its not always the gun that is accurate its more the shooter. This is my mut rifle. It is a RRA lower with a 2 stage and believe it or not a model 1 sales upper 1/9 twist, 24" barrel and M1s internals with a BSA scope, and a 3.5# block of lead in the but stock to help counter balance the bull barrel. She weighs in at 17.5lbs. img.photobucket.com/albums/v234/Tippman/TheAR.jpg I can consistently shoot .45 - .5" groups with it with BH BB 75gr. img.photobucket.com/albums/v234/Tippman/Prettygood.jpg img.photobucket.com/albums/v234/Tippman/Gettingbetter.jpg img.photobucket.com/albums/v234/Tippman/Target.jpg Cost for mine about 700$ MAX!   Granted yours may shoot better longer but accuary isnt just in the gun. Congrats on the new rifle.!! Edit for spelling. Nice groups.  I built a match target AR with 26 inch barrel 1-7 twist from WOA and I had to do the same thing with the stock.  I got the lower, two stage trigger and lead weight for it from rock river.  I had to cut the weight off to get it to fit.  Did you have to trim yours?    Shoot safe.

Nope I didnt but it was a super tight fit! I think I taped it in with a rubber hammer to get it to fit.

tag

Quoted: Quoted: For the sake of arguement lets say you are a combat vet.   I would hope you have learned along the way not to let what others people say bother you.  If you do, you are going to have one miserable life.  This is the internet and is no different then any other source of information and opinions.  Take away with you what you want and leave the garbage. Since you own a Les Baer it does not make you a disinterested party in the discussion and as such your opinion is suspect.  Too many find themselves trying to justify a purchase after the fact.  Once the decision is made who cares what others think.  The facts is if you post on this forums and ask a question don`t get upset if the answer is not what you wanted to hear. Ok for arguments sake! I don't ask for hand outs or praise and I will never stand by and let someone who knows nothing about me question my integrity. I spent the first 6 months in iraq as 95b M249 gunner,  the next 9 months in walter read and irland army hospitals recovering from my injuries after I was medivaced out of Iraq. I lost two close freinds one on MSR tampa south of biop and the other in abu-ghraib prison (if you were there you would know exactly what and where I mean). Any one who has been through what I have can certainly understand that yes we are very short tempered and things that you might consider trivial and are able to shrug off tend to set us off at the drop of a dime. As far as me and every other vet having a misserable life after this, your probably right. Weather you belive me or not thats up to you I won't discuss it any further. With that out of the way, this whole thing is getting real petty like a bunch of jackles just picking at the guy.  Its his money either way you look at it. Cutting him down is acting plain childish weather you dislike LB products or disagree with him for buying them. I took over a year to save up for his rifle and I would do it again even knowing that their are a chosen few (Im not one of them) who could build it cheapr (I believe a little cheaper but not $1000) Everyone has their rite to an opinion in this country trust me I know this, I don't have to like it or agree with it but I was raised to respect it. If you don't like his rifle fine you don't like it  its that simple. You don't have to go the extra mile and bash it by dragging les baers name through the mud and trying to make the guy feel like an idiot for spending is hard erned money on what he wanted.  Plain and simple I think he makes excellent guns that do just what he says they will do. If you want to build one that is cheaper and can match his performance by all means do it but don't degrade someone for not agreeing with you. Don't ridicule the guy for buying what he wanted, that would be as bad as me trash talking everyone who didnt  jump on the band waggon and run down to enlist after 9/11. I hope you all can just suport they guy and get over the fact that he is happy whith what he bought even if its not what you would have chosen.

When you are discussing something with someone and they start by conceding a point its not suppost to make you angry.  Walter Reed is spelled Reed  not Read by the way.  Ireland hospital is spelled Ireland not Irland.  Next time you use this info at least you can spell them right.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: For the sake of arguement lets say you are a combat vet.  Wow, talk about disrespect.   I would hope you have learned along the way not to let what others people say bother you.  If you do, you are going to have one miserable life.  This is the internet and is no different then any other source of information and opinions.  Take away with you what you want and leave the garbage. Since you own a Les Baer it does not make you a disinterested party in the discussion and as such your opinion is suspect.  You are correct, it doesn't make him disinterested; it makes him experienced.  It actually lends validity to his comments, as opposed to someone (such as me) who  has no firsthand experience with LBC.  Too many find themselves trying to justify a purchase after the fact.  Once the decision is made who cares what others think.  The facts is if you post on this forums and ask a question don`t get upset if the answer is not what you wanted to hear.  I think he is probably more upset that people here are being unnecessarily rude, and as far as the original poster, the guy is proud of his new rifle for chrissakes, why not just be polite, say "nice stick", and be on your way, if you are so big on not caring about what others say/think? Ok for arguments sake! I don't ask for hand outs or praise and I will never stand by and let someone who knows nothing about me question my integrity. I spent the first 6 months in iraq as 95b M249 gunner,  the next 9 months in walter read and irland army hospitals recovering from my injuries after I was medivaced out of Iraq. I lost two close freinds one on MSR tampa south of biop and the other in abu-ghraib prison (if you were there you would know exactly what and where I mean).  I've patrolled MSR Tampa many a time and done detainee transfers at Abu Ghraib.  That can be a rough area! Any one who has been through what I have can certainly understand that yes we are very short tempered and things that you might consider trivial and are able to shrug off tend to set us off at the drop of a dime. As far as me and every other vet having a misserable life after this, your probably right. Weather you belive me or not thats up to you I won't discuss it any further.  Amen, just let him be, he doesn't get it and probably never will. With that out of the way, this whole thing is getting real petty like a bunch of jackles just picking at the guy.  Its his money either way you look at it. Cutting him down is acting plain childish weather you dislike LB products or disagree with him for buying them. I took over a year to save up for his rifle and I would do it again even knowing that their are a chosen few (Im not one of them) who could build it cheapr (I believe a little cheaper but not $1000) Everyone has their rite to an opinion in this country trust me I know this, I don't have to like it or agree with it but I was raised to respect it. If you don't like his rifle fine you don't like it  its that simple. You don't have to go the extra mile and bash it by dragging les baers name through the mud and trying to make the guy feel like an idiot for spending is hard erned money on what he wanted.  Plain and simple I think he makes excellent guns that do just what he says they will do. If you want to build one that is cheaper and can match his performance by all means do it but don't degrade someone for not agreeing with you. Don't ridicule the guy for buying what he wanted, that would be as bad as me trash talking everyone who didnt  jump on the band waggon and run down to enlist after 9/11. I hope you all can just suport they guy and get over the fact that he is happy whith what he bought even if its not what you would have chosen. hug.gif   Amen   When you are discussing something with someone and they start by conceding a point its not suppost to make you angry.  Walter Reed is spelled Reed  not Read by the way.  Ireland hospital is spelled Ireland not Irland.  Next time you use this info at least you can spell them right.  Good to see we're focusing on what's important now...hinking.gif

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: For the sake of arguement lets say you are a combat vet.  Wow, talk about disrespect.   I would hope you have learned along the way not to let what others people say bother you.  If you do, you are going to have one miserable life.  This is the internet and is no different then any other source of information and opinions.  Take away with you what you want and leave the garbage. Since you own a Les Baer it does not make you a disinterested party in the discussion and as such your opinion is suspect.  You are correct, it doesn't make him disinterested; it makes him experienced.  It actually lends validity to his comments, as opposed to someone (such as me) who  has no firsthand experience with LBC.  Too many find themselves trying to justify a purchase after the fact.  Once the decision is made who cares what others think.  The facts is if you post on this forums and ask a question don`t get upset if the answer is not what you wanted to hear.  I think he is probably more upset that people here are being unnecessarily rude, and as far as the original poster, the guy is proud of his new rifle for chrissakes, why not just be polite, say "nice stick", and be on your way, if you are so big on not caring about what others say/think? Ok for arguments sake! I don't ask for hand outs or praise and I will never stand by and let someone who knows nothing about me question my integrity. I spent the first 6 months in iraq as 95b M249 gunner,  the next 9 months in walter read and irland army hospitals recovering from my injuries after I was medivaced out of Iraq. I lost two close freinds one on MSR tampa south of biop and the other in abu-ghraib prison (if you were there you would know exactly what and where I mean).  I've patrolled MSR Tampa many a time and done detainee transfers at Abu Ghraib.  That can be a rough area! Any one who has been through what I have can certainly understand that yes we are very short tempered and things that you might consider trivial and are able to shrug off tend to set us off at the drop of a dime. As far as me and every other vet having a misserable life after this, your probably right. Weather you belive me or not thats up to you I won't discuss it any further.  Amen, just let him be, he doesn't get it and probably never will. With that out of the way, this whole thing is getting real petty like a bunch of jackles just picking at the guy.  Its his money either way you look at it. Cutting him down is acting plain childish weather you dislike LB products or disagree with him for buying them. I took over a year to save up for his rifle and I would do it again even knowing that their are a chosen few (Im not one of them) who could build it cheapr (I believe a little cheaper but not $1000) Everyone has their rite to an opinion in this country trust me I know this, I don't have to like it or agree with it but I was raised to respect it. If you don't like his rifle fine you don't like it  its that simple. You don't have to go the extra mile and bash it by dragging les baers name through the mud and trying to make the guy feel like an idiot for spending is hard erned money on what he wanted.  Plain and simple I think he makes excellent guns that do just what he says they will do. If you want to build one that is cheaper and can match his performance by all means do it but don't degrade someone for not agreeing with you. Don't ridicule the guy for buying what he wanted, that would be as bad as me trash talking everyone who didnt  jump on the band waggon and run down to enlist after 9/11. I hope you all can just suport they guy and get over the fact that he is happy whith what he bought even if its not what you would have chosen.   Amen   When you are discussing something with someone and they start by conceding a point its not suppost to make you angry.  Walter Reed is spelled Reed  not Read by the way.  Ireland hospital is spelled Ireland not Irland.  Next time you use this info at least you can spell them right.  Good to see we're focusing on what's important now...

Ok so now we went from Les Baer to Iraq.  Mr Phoebus has shared his thoughts in red ink to get attention.  I do not see were you find disrespect in my words.  If I would have intended disrespect
believe me it would have been clear.  Not suttle like if you had been in hospitals for the period of time you say at least one would assume you could spell the names from getting and sending mail?

What is clear is this tread is over as it has degressed to the point were it serves no purpose.  Phoebus in greek mythology means "the radiant one".   Maybe thats were his red ink comes from.
Say good night Gracy.........

Quoted: That looks great. I have been thinking of doing away with my Bushmaster varminter for one of those.

first off, Very Nice Weapon....

second, my varminter shoots 1/4 groups. Try winchester 45g varmints in your BM BShep

DonD,

You're definitely right, this has degenerated WAY past resonable topicality!  I usually don't indulge myself in that, but I just couldn't help ithe
Nice catch on my name, btwhe
OP, that is a VERY nice rifle and I'm glad you're happy with it.

Quoted: Ok so now we went from Les Baer to Iraq.  Mr Phoebus has shared his thoughts in red ink to get attention.  I do not see were you find disrespect in my words.  If I would have intended disrespect believe me it would have been clear.  Not suttle like if you had been in hospitals for the period of time you say at least one would assume you could spell the names from getting and sending mail? What is clear is this tread is over as it has degressed to the point were it serves no purpose.  Phoebus in greek mythology means "the radiant one".   Maybe thats were his red ink comes from. Say good night Gracy.........

Wow thats great, I guys it worked and got your attention. Phoebus your right he will never get it. As far as Iraq you got it started by insinuating that I am a liar. Thats your opinion good for you Im glad I bled for you to have that opion. So I can't spell every word rite that means I must be a making it all up.  Ive been to propabley 30-40 differant cities and villigas in Iraq and I bet I cant spell them all rite either. Ever heard of this invention called the telephone, we had them on every base in Iraq and also in the hostpitals go figure I would use it every chance I got to talk to family rather than rite! Whats next you need a picture of me in the box or will that be computer altered and a fake also. Phoebus comes on here puts his input in and can relate to me and you bash him to, wow your a real stand up guy.

Like I said before to the original theam of this thread, Nice rifle no matter what anyone else says if you like it thats all that matters.

ibtl

Im lost here what does that mean.

It means: in before the lock

Thanks V-rod I will try the .45g Winchester.  

Quoted: Quoted: Ok so now we went from Les Baer to Iraq.  Mr Phoebus has shared his thoughts in red ink to get attention.  I do not see were you find disrespect in my words.  If I would have intended disrespect believe me it would have been clear.  Not suttle like if you had been in hospitals for the period of time you say at least one would assume you could spell the names from getting and sending mail? What is clear is this tread is over as it has degressed to the point were it serves no purpose.  Phoebus in greek mythology means "the radiant one".   Maybe thats were his red ink comes from. Say good night Gracy......... Wow thats great, I guys it worked and got your attention. Phoebus your right he will never get it. As far as Iraq you got it started by insinuating that I am a liar. Thats your opinion good for you Im glad I bled for you to have that opion. So I can't spell every word rite that means I must be a making it all up.  Ive been to propabley 30-40 differant cities and villigas in Iraq and I bet I cant spell them all rite either. Ever heard of this invention called the telephone, we had them on every base in Iraq and also in the hostpitals go figure I would use it every chance I got to talk to family rather than rite! Whats next you need a picture of me in the box or will that be computer altered and a fake also. Phoebus comes on here puts his input in and can relate to me and you bash him to, wow your a real stand up guy. Like I said before to the original theam of this thread, Nice rifle no matter what anyone else says if you like it thats all that matters.

I have no problem with Phoebus.  He can read and express himself.  You seem to want to be insulted and the more you type the more questions you raise about what you are saying.  Having said that, what I say does not change who you are.  


 

So Dond you have a problem with me? Why not just say it insted of beating around the bush, Im a man and can take it. I would prefer you just say it in plain and simple english for me since it is obvious that my grammer could use some work. In your last post you assume that I enjoy being insulted, thats rediculous I don't know anyone who enjoys being insulted do you? On the other hand I do know plenty of people myself included who don't appreciate it when some one questions their integrity and calls them a liar for no reason other than to pick a fight. As for you, its not that I don't like you or even have a problem with you. I however don't like what you are saying about me and how you are saying it in your reply's, I am proud of what I did and to have some one be degrading and call me a liar (weather you say it out-rite or in a sarcastic manner)is very insulting. So you don't believe me good for you I can live with that since it is obviouse that no matter what I say or do you have allready judged me and made a pre determined decision about me in a negative way, thats a shame.

with that said, DonD best of luck to you.

IBTL

Quoted: So Dond you have a problem with me? Why not just say it insted of beating around the bush, Im a man and can take it. I would prefer you just say it in plain and simple english for me since it is obvious that my grammer could use some work. In your last post you assume that I enjoy being insulted, thats rediculous I don't know anyone who enjoys being insulted do you? On the other hand I do know plenty of people myself included who don't appreciate it when some one questions their integrity and calls them a liar for no reason other than to pick a fight. As for you, its not that I don't like you or even have a problem with you. I however don't like what you are saying about me and how you are saying it in your reply's, I am proud of what I did and to have some one be degrading and call me a liar (weather you say it out-rite or in a sarcastic manner)is very insulting. So you don't believe me good for you I can live with that since it is obviouse that no matter what I say or do you have allready judged me and made a pre determined decision about me in a negative way, thats a shame. with that said, DonD best of luck to you.

Thanks same to you.

rpd5127,

i like the look.  i like the function.  

i'm no officer or military so my opinion differs due to what i'd use it for.  as a varminter i like all the qualities and amenities this unit provides.  i shoot 10,000+ rounds yearly on prairie dogs, so i'm sure i'd dig it.  

the shitstorm here aside, i can see both sides of the group.  i don't have unlimited resources but buy and build many and by the same token, i have a budget to adhere to as well...  as for a rifle like yours in terms of performance i'd rather build.  i feel like i can make more with less, and i'd be lying if i said i hadn't ever bought a precision rig from a "name" builder too.

when it comes to AR's i'm more comfortable and have had favorable results with building and buying.  with bolt rigs i've done well both ways as well.

regardless, if my life depended on it, i might be willing to pay more and worry less.

either way, it looks great and apparently shoots great.

by the way, i don't remember after reading all the posts if you mentioned how much a magpul stock like that went for?  i'd have an interest in one of those.  anyone?

thanks,

septic tank

So what is wrong with Rolex's?  

Quoted: rpd5127, i like the look.  i like the function.   i'm no officer or military so my opinion differs due to what i'd use it for.  as a varminter i like all the qualities and amenities this unit provides.  i shoot 10,000+ rounds yearly on prairie dogs, so i'm sure i'd dig it.   the shitstorm here aside, i can see both sides of the group.  i don't have unlimited resources but buy and build many and by the same token, i have a budget to adhere to as well...  as for a rifle like yours in terms of performance i'd rather build.  i feel like i can make more with less, and i'd be lying if i said i hadn't ever bought a precision rig from a "name" builder too. when it comes to AR's i'm more comfortable and have had favorable results with building and buying.  with bolt rigs i've done well both ways as well. regardless, if my life depended on it, i might be willing to pay more and worry less. either way, it looks great and apparently shoots great. by the way, i don't remember after reading all the posts if you mentioned how much a magpul stock like that went for?  i'd have an interest in one of those.  anyone? thanks, septic tank

JTAC, Dennys,Grant, MTSN- RANGE 240-250.  Dennys has the most colors in stock.

Quoted: So what is wrong with Rolex's?

Mike