Many people are starting to realize that the Chinese can build good gear if the customer's willing to spec it and pay for it, but that's not really the issue here.

CSO may be importing a good quality Chinese scope, but as others have said, you'd be nuts to buy a scope from people who use deception and bogus techno-babble to market their scopes when there are many other scopes from well known companies with good reputations that don't misrepresent themselves.

The problem is that there are people who don't have a technical background in optics (or flashlights or knives), see their glossy ads, and think that their bizarre claims and glossy marketing mean they're some kind of tactically proven dark-ops vendor, and end up overpaying for Chinese gear.

That's what it boils down to, IMO - deceptive marketing.  Nothing new, of course, but when someone asks, it's up to the community to make sure they have the facts before they spend their money - then they can make their own choices.  That's one of the things we're here for.

I got to fondle a Counter Sniper scope this week, and all I can say is WOW, what a hunk of shit..

First thing I noticed waqs the reticule was canted at least 8%, 1x was no were near 1x, and the hole damned view was fuzzy, I could not get a clear picture at all. $800.00, I'll pass..

Quoted: As far as chinese and russian crap. I will bet that almost all of the major optics companies are buying tons of stuff overseas. I have recently learned that one of the biggest, and most decorated, buys about 75% of their product overseas. I think that there are some really good products made overseas. I also know that the difference in the really good stuff and the bad stuff has to do with the quality assurance program that the company has. There is one company that I know of that orders all of their stuff from China and Indonesia, their QA rejects about 1/2 of what they get. Because of that they increase their price to include the Bad ones. And they are considered to be one of the best optics companies out there. I appoligize for the lack of company names, I don't want to start uproar, although, I believe that I already have.

ShootTheM14, how ya doing?
You mean Leupold?  Sorry, for some reason my shill radar paints you as shill for CSO.  Come up with some real statistics or withdraw your statement.  Your advertising and manuals are full of crap, now you're waging a disinformation campaign here too? You're subtly defending CSO without naming any names, by saying one of the major optics companies buys 75% of its products overseas (read: China), hinting if Leupold does it,  Chinese POS is good to go.
Contrary to your claim that you don't want to start an uproar, this is precisely what you intended and hoped for.  CSO is utter crap, I have a suspicion you know that too.

If sigtwon isn't a troll, I'd be really surprised.  See for yourself

This guy has three posts, in every one of them he's promoting one Chicom scope or another.

From his posts: IN RED
Believe it or not,
NcStar has a really good 3-9x42 compact scope called the mark 3 compact tactical. I was sceptical at first, but I baught one anyways. Come to find out, these little scopes are really freakin good. They are iluminated, red/green. I was really impressed that these scopes came from Ncstar. I am usually not a big supporter of ncstar, but I still stand firm that they are really good, and less than $150...
I know I will probably get blown up with people saying im stupid. Im ready.lol

These scopes have been sold to alot of police and military personnell now serving overseas, come to find out.

You will stand firm they are really good?  You must think we're all stupid here.  Try your antics at snipershide.com, lightfgithers.com forums, I dare you.

More:
my personal favorite is still the 10x42 Falcon Menace. In my opinion, these scopes re definately woth the money, and more. They have 1/2 mil dot mp20 reticle, 1/4 or metric clicks, big, fat, resisted target knobs. Those scopes are definately worth taking a look at

So, sightwon/ShootTheM14, care to dispute the shill charges, or are you going to bug out like when you were outed as a shill, using your shill account ShootTheM14 to defend CSO pieces of poop and try to convince us your garbage is anything but?

I have NEVER met a serious shooter that uses ChiCom scopes.  You, however, seem to know and love them all.  $150 is 1.5 tank of gas for me, it does not buy good optics.

I can't believe the latest SGN had a Peter Kokalis article where he actually said nice things about CounterSniper Scopes. This is a guy who has used every weapon system on the planet and he's going to shill for the Chinese airsofters? This is nuts.

These stupid scopes and their stupid ads are never going to go away. Just like this thread.

Quoted: Quoted: I can't believe the latest SGN had a Peter Kokalis article where he actually said nice things about CounterSniper Scopes. Yer kidding?

Not as far as Google is concerned.  Scan anyone?

But do they come with BDCs for Extreme Shock ammo?

It's in the article about the ASA side-charging AR upper they just published. I'll find it and stick it on the scanner at work Tuesday.

Oh, no, doubt away, I wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't seen it either.

Slightly off-topic, wasn't Kokalis supposed to be on death's door a couple years back?

I read that SGN article also. They raved about them. The article sucked anyway they had about a dozen photos of the " side charger " and not one photo of the left side receiver to show it! The writer and editor are laking some I think. After reading that I looked up "Darkopsholdings.com and quit reading the PDF. add for fear It would make me less intelligent.

AL  

I know the Kenwick residence in Roch, NY, and its a family home- I believe his mother lives there- and the other address posted on the website is a nonexistant. What bothers me is the guy is engaged to my niece in the Roch area, and she's not Miller's daughter! I'm hoping some wrong information??

Quoted: I know the Kenwick residence in Roch, NY, and its a family home- I believe his mother lives there- and the other address posted on the website is a nonexistant. What bothers me is the guy is engaged to my niece in the Roch area, and she's not Miller's daughter! I'm hoping some wrong information??

If it has to do with CSS, then there is nothing but wrong information!

Lives with his mom, does he?  Probably tells the girls he's got a house in Malibu next to Suzanne Summers on Malibu Road, hangs out with celebrities in Hollywood, drives a Porsche and shit, if he applies his Counter Sniper marketing philosophy to his own life.

Quoted: Lives with his mom, does he?  Probably tells the girls he's got a house in Malibu next to Suzanne Summers on Malibu Road, hangs out with celebrities in Hollywood, drives a Porsche and shit, if he applies his Counter Sniper marketing philosophy to his own life.

Smarmy

die thread, die.

It seems like some shady dealings (why advertise addresses that don't exist? There's no International Trade Center in Roch, NY, give me a break! Why list your mother's address as a business? According to niece, he does frequent China.) All business issues aside, I'd like to know exactly how many women he's engaged to exactly. When i met him, he plays up the "lifestyle" but got suspicious when i saw where he lives, and he's frequently away on "business." Guess the "business" is fishing boats judging from posted pics. hinking.gif

just loving the "warantee" information

Wow. So I could probably write a book in this thread, but I don't feel like spending that much time on this.

I am a dealer in Springfield, MO. I recently got a used Counter Sniper scope in the was mounted on a hunting rifle. I had a customer who had recently purchased a couple of AR's want to buy it off of the rifle. So I sold it to him, and he mounted it on his RRA 20" Varmint EOP. It was the CSO 3-9x42 btw. After using it for a while, he loved it so much he wanted me to order him a larger power CSO.

So i decided to get ahold of Dark Ops and become a dealer since they're right here in Springfield. I went by their warehouse the other day, took a look at their products, and made an initial order. I bought both the CSO scopes and the Hellfighter lights.

So far everyone that has looked at the scopes and lights have been very impressed by them. After reading this ENTIRE thread, I DO NOT intend to sell these scopes and lights under the false pretences that they are marketed. But I already have 2 customers who are happy with their CSO scopes, and a local distributor who has vowed to replace any defective scopes within 1 business day.

Much of what has been said here is true though. Frank Miller is the owner of Dark Ops Holdings. They do claim in person the same things they claim on their website. That they are used by military, that the $7,000 titanium scopes have a mile-long back-order, that the glass is made in Germany in the same factory as Swarvoski glass, etc.

So I will admit I am very dissapointed that I was led to believe false things about these scopes when I was there in person making an order. And again, I will NOT be telling my customers these half truths. But unless I begin having unhappy customers, I will probably continue to carry these scopes and lights.

Thanks for the report.  Based on that there are some folks that are happy with their Russian and Chinese made scopes that are otherwise reported by other users as junk, I wouldn't lend much credence to a handful of users, for all we know, they're probably new to optics and shooting, and can't tell the difference.

Seems consistent that they utter the same BS in ads as in person.  Used by the military, mile long back order?  Let's see some proof.  They can't produce the proof for the above mentioned any more than they could for all the exotic, non-existent materials they used in their scopes.  We've seen individually purchased cheap scopes used by troops, that's not saying much.

I found this site by searching for problems people may have experienced with this scope and this thread came up. This is my first post here. I recently bought a 5-25 x 42 Counter Sniper Scope from a reputable store. I mounted it on a FN FNAR this weekend and took it out back for a spin. I spent about an hour cussing the rifle as it came with a 1 MOA guarantee. Well, it was not the rifle at all. This scope is complete and total junk. It looks well built from the outside, but the optics are fuzzy around the edges. Next, the turrets are useless as the clicks come no where near what is stated. Mine has 1/8" per click stamped on it. For windage, 1 click on mine= about 1.5" at 100 yds. Elevation, about 1" per click at 100yds. After you make an adjustment, you have to shoot three or four times to let the recoil settle out the reticle. All signs of a crap scope. I was definitely screwed out of $400. The people marketing these scopes are un-American POS's and don't deserve to breathe our air.  I would gladly put a $50 Tasco up against this scope any day of the week. I should have known better and can only blame myself at this point. Don"t let anyone you know buy this trash. For those of you that have given good reviews, I am calling you a liar and you are probably in on the gig.