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Posted: 4/18/2005 9:02:51 AM EDT
[#1]
I've borrowed the pictures below from other members of this forum for illustration purposes only, and I've hosted them on my own server so as not to hog their bandwidth. If there's a problem with me using these pictures, just let me know and I'll remove them from this post.
A couple more questions on M16A1 minutiae: 1) In pictures I've seen M16A1s both with and without the hole in the pivot pin detente boss (circled in red immediately below); is this something that was added/removed during the production run? If so, when was it added/removed?  2) I've seen earlier lower receivers with a roll pin at the rear, as shown in the picture below (again, circled in red). What were these roll pins for, and when were they discontinued?  Thanks! |
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Posted: 4/18/2005 9:34:56 AM EDT
[#2]
Agreed. This is one out of a series of three, and is amoung my favorite old school pics. I hope it is enjoyed! |
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Posted: 4/18/2005 10:58:47 AM EDT
[#3]
i sure wish i had your lower, stickman! i need a Colt for my SP1...hopefully i'll get my uncle's Colt SP1 lower this summer...dunno though...and even if birdcages were used on M16A1's in Vietnam, i still like the 3 prong FH a lot better...it just doesnt look right with a birdcage...
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Posted: 4/18/2005 7:45:54 PM EDT
[#4]
Bump!
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Posted: 4/22/2005 1:47:19 PM EDT
[#5]
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quoted: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quoted: A 1968 Sporter would have a slab sided big hole upper with no forge code, barrel would probably be marked C MP C. Would think that it could have either flash hiders. Bolt carrier would have forward assist cuts and be unmarked. Bolt would be marked MP and would not have an extractor buffer. Check your bolt group out, you might still have the correct one. Good luck finding a 1968 upper, a later one would be much easier to find, like this one, and it is real cheap: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Yeah, I saw that upper notice I'm the second poster in the thread. I'm not looking for an original '68 upper, but one that matches closley. I beleive I do have the original bolt group by your description, the carrier is unmarked, bolt says MP and I remember it not having an extractor buffer. Good to know it could have either FH, I prefer the look of the 3 prong over the bird cage. One other thing, would the butt stock be the type with trap door, or without? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quoted: The bird cage flash hider was approved in late 67, but I would guess they old flash hider was still used for awhile. No trap door on the buttstock. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hi guys, I've got an original '68 sporter (it's ser 12,XXX which is '67 according to R.L. Wilson but '68 according to Black Rifle II... ). Here's how mine is wrt the points in question: - big hole upper with no forge codes - the numbers on the windage adjustment disc are large type (larger than my M16A1 upper anyway) - the barrel is not marked C MP C, it's the older type with no chrome and the small '12' - the bolt group is all phosphate finished, the carrier does not have FA cuts - it has a 3-prong FH I haven't field stripped the bolt so off the top of my head i can't tell you about the extractor. Best of luck |
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Posted: 4/23/2005 7:37:45 AM EDT
[#6]
Great info, would not have guessed that Colt's would still have so many parts left over from 66/67 to use up on 1968 SP1's, but am not at all surprised. I take it that the carrier is not marked? When you get a chance please do check the extractor spring, should be no insert. |
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Posted: 4/23/2005 4:04:20 PM EDT
[#7]
Tagged for future reference.
. . . . and what is that roll pin in front of the buffer tube? |
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Posted: 4/23/2005 4:20:03 PM EDT
[#8]
It is drilled thru and retains the buffer tube. |
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Posted: 4/23/2005 7:16:49 PM EDT
[#9]
When did Colt stop pinning the Buffer tubes? |
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Posted: 4/23/2005 7:34:33 PM EDT
[#10]
That would be a matter of pouring over pictures for a few hours to figure out, have not done that, yet. |
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Posted: 4/24/2005 11:30:35 AM EDT
[#11]
Here's what I found: - The carrier isn't marked, and it has a shrouded firing pin. - The extractor doesn't have an insert. - The bolt is lightly marked 'MP', with no 'C'. - The charging handle seems less beveled than the newer ones. the top of the handle is very flat, just an observation. As for the lower, it does have the early butt stock without the trap door as you expected. The selector and takedown pin are the newer type, without the hole or dimple. It has an early 'edgewater' buffer tho, and the magazine catch looks standard from the outside but looking into the mag well it is a little different. Again, I'm not exactly sure if it's a 67 or a 68 since the sources disagree. It does look like the civilian production used left over older parts for awhile tho. Regards, RoostAR |
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Posted: 4/29/2005 2:06:18 PM EDT
[#12]
any more pics guys?
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Posted: 4/29/2005 2:58:12 PM EDT
[#13]
www.israellycool.com/old%20lady%20AFP.jpg
Whoops, that's probably not what you had in mind  Time for a banana dance! 
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Posted: 5/1/2005 5:08:09 PM EDT
[#14]
Fresh out of AR-15 Oldies to show off.............it's not mine,but I think this may be appreciated!!!! I'd love to come up with a Portuguese AR-10 style furniture setup for an AR-15   Still looking for the Colt/Armalite carry handle mount to mount the Delft scope on an AR-15 |
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Posted: 5/13/2005 2:27:36 AM EDT
[#15]
God I want an A1 so bad!!!
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Posted: 5/13/2005 2:37:01 AM EDT
[#16]
 This is currently running an M261 kit and will be getting a 3 prong FS. As soon as a slab side lower becomes available it'll get that too! |
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Posted: 5/13/2005 10:00:56 AM EDT
[#17]
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Posted: 5/13/2005 1:37:57 PM EDT
[#18]
Here are my "clones".
 SNS Lower with a Clot M16 upper from CDDN (with forward assist), A1 stock, Oly bolt and carrier. Going to go plinking at my gun club in a few.  Here it is with its older brother, a SNS / Oly 16 inch pencil barrel, Clot M16/SP1 upper (no forward assist, no deflector), Bushy 6 pos stock. I just put XS same plane sights on it, so it's to the range to get sighted in (again). |
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Posted: 5/15/2005 7:37:28 PM EDT
[#19]
                
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Posted: 5/15/2005 7:46:23 PM EDT
[#20]
Dace, Great pics! Thanks for sharing!
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Posted: 5/15/2005 8:13:31 PM EDT
[#22]
tag
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Posted: 5/16/2005 5:19:20 AM EDT
[#23]
I think the pin for the buffer tube started to disappear around 1965 as they appear on XM607 but not XM177. Scott |
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Posted: 5/16/2005 3:44:42 PM EDT
[#24]
scottryan, thanks for the reply!
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Posted: 5/16/2005 4:16:28 PM EDT
[#25]
Wow, nice pics |
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Posted: 5/30/2005 3:51:47 PM EDT
[#26]
Figure that this thread could use a BTT.
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Posted: 6/1/2005 7:02:52 PM EDT
[#27]
Great pics...what an education.
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Posted: 6/4/2005 1:42:47 PM EDT
[#28]
Great thread.
Great pics. Here's My 1979 COLT SP-1    Old Bushmaster with Colt upper 
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Posted: 6/7/2005 1:25:41 PM EDT
[#29]
Kabump
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Posted: 6/8/2005 10:15:02 PM EDT
[#30]
Wow, $189.50. Too Cool. |
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Posted: 6/9/2005 5:12:35 AM EDT
[#31]
ok now we needs links
we got the total silence inc. one what are the links for: KKT SGW Palmetto Lower and other suppliers of similar products. also can a guy get a early waffle style mag without spending 400?? maybe somebody makes a reproduction? |
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Posted: 6/9/2005 7:35:00 AM EDT
[#32]
also can a guy get a early waffle style mag without spending 400?? maybe somebody makes a reproduction?
Sorry, I don't think anybody makes a reproduction of the old stainless steel 20 rd waffle mag! There's another old collectable magazine I would like to get: the original ArmaLite 25 rd aluminum magazine. Also very very rare, and actually not correct for Colt's mod 601 and up. It was purely an ArmaLite product, I am pretty sure. TBR states only about 17 .223 cal AR-15s were mfg by ArmaLite before the mfg rights were sold to Colt's in 1959.... |
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Posted: 6/10/2005 1:36:51 AM EDT
[#33]
maybe we could get someone to make them if there was enough interest? it couldnt be that hard for some of these companies.
dont know about the legalities as far as getting the patent rights or what not though. |
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Posted: 6/10/2005 2:19:58 AM EDT
[#34]
I don't think the patents would be the problem-- the design was dropped like a dead skunk when people figured out how unreliable the design was-- it's that it would cost some serious money to set up the stamping dies-- in excess of $15,000, according to one source. Whoever sets up to make them would want to know they'd eventually get their investment back, and at least a little bit of profit. But maybe someone will take pity on us--
ETA: The SGW (now Olympic Arms) "Palmetto Armory" lowers were a small run made in the late Seventies for a now-defunct small dealer in South Carolina. They were among the earliest OlyArms lowers-- and the ones I've seen were really rather crude, with very obvious tooling marks. One in particular looked like someone had taken a circular grinder to the outside of the magazine well. If you're looking for an early-type "slabside" lower, though, you're in luck: American Spirit Arms and MEGA are both working on them. ASA's XM16-type (partial mag fence) are being machined now, and the true slabside SP-1-types are about a month out. MEGA is still in the prototyping stage. Stay tuned-- (link to the ASA thread:) www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=7&f=21&t=264233 Here's another good thread on the matter-- www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=231629 |
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Posted: 6/10/2005 8:31:10 AM EDT
[#35]
MAN, i didnt think it would be that complicated to stamp, bend, and TIG some sheet metal. that sucks....
thanks for the info and links |
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Posted: 6/10/2005 9:10:35 PM EDT
[#36]
Tagged yet again, for even more further study. I actually have the audacity to think I may be getting a grip on this.
Guys, if you're reading this again, I could sure use a decent photo of the early-style magazine-release button . . . . |
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Posted: 6/21/2005 4:58:13 AM EDT
[#37]
BTT...okay as most of you know, i have a Mega on my Colt SP1 upper and the color doesnt match at all. well, i was thinking about trading my Mega for a different lower that actually matched. can anyone tell me a few lowers that are close in color to Colt Grey? Thanks!
P.S. is that all the oldies we have on this board? keep the pics coming! |
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Posted: 6/21/2005 4:25:48 PM EDT
[#38]
Well. If you want the authentic military Colt look, then you are set because many Colts don't match!
Sammy
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Posted: 6/21/2005 5:10:02 PM EDT
[#39]
Not only don't all the old military Colt's match, but I don't think anybody finnishes new ARs in light or medium gray. I'm talking about large producers here. I only see black.
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Posted: 7/18/2005 6:06:46 AM EDT
[#40]
The latest repro:
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Posted: 7/18/2005 6:46:41 AM EDT
[#41]
That's sweet, Steve.
 I'm waiting on a barrel now-- the last part I need to finish my 604gery on what as far as I know is still the only Mega slabside lower. The lower really isn't historically accurate-- it's an A2 lower they removed the lower mag fence from as a sort of "science project"-- but it's a) as close as I'll be able to get for a while, and b) a very rare bird at the moment. Hopefully Layne will take our feedback to heart and make something a little more accurate when they start coming off the line-- but he's a very busy guy right now. Making lowers isn't even a large part of what they do down in Tumwater, and he's running his butt off right now. We'll do our best to keep y'all up to date on what's happening there. Got a chrome non-F/A BCG and a wedgie charging handle from WA-Tom at Total Silence, and I couldn't be happier with them.  --But I sure see why they changed the cgarging handle-- you have to grab it with your thumb and forefinger, or it just won't move. Looks extremely cool, though; and all my stepson's active-duty buddies are knocked out with it. Can't wait to get it shooting!
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Posted: 8/6/2005 12:11:15 AM EDT
[#42]
Can't let this one die.
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Posted: 8/6/2005 5:35:49 PM EDT
[#43]
The thread should get going again next month, once ASA ships out thier retro lowers.
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Posted: 8/6/2005 5:45:49 PM EDT
[#44]
They're coming out next month, huh? Where'd you hear that? Or is that just a guess? I haven't seen any set date on that thread.
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Posted: 8/6/2005 6:36:00 PM EDT
[#45]
Click Here On page 11 are the dates. |
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Posted: 8/6/2005 6:36:06 PM EDT
[#46]
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Posted: 8/6/2005 7:17:27 PM EDT
[#47]
Ah, thanks people. I didn't see that post. I'll probably have to pick one of the slabside's up along with an SA (for an SBR project I'm planing on) and then sell my Mega or just keep it for an even farther in the future build.
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Posted: 8/6/2005 7:20:16 PM EDT
[#48]
Where would be a good place to send a couple of lowers & Uppers to be refinished in Sandstrom 9?
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Posted: 8/6/2005 8:19:07 PM EDT
[#49]
I bet my serial number is lower than your serial number! (hint: less than 400...)
Armalite/Colt Waffle mag Colt 3x scope Colt Bipod Colt Bayonet stamped "W. Germany" (if anyone knows any history on the "W. Germany" stamped bayos I'd appreciate hearing about it...)   
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Posted: 8/6/2005 8:34:29 PM EDT
[#50]
Here's mine......
 PWA lower, chrome notchless carrier & bolt, chrome solid firing pin retainer, M16A0 upper, 20" 1 in 12 pencil barrel with later 3-prong hider, straight delta ring, A0 buttstock/pistol grip/tri-handguards, even has the round front sight post. Pretty close to what I carried in Vietnam except the non-Colt lower and semi auto of course. |
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