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Posted: 1/13/2007 7:04:51 PM EDT
[#1]
My feelings exactly. I was really excited about the SIG 556 until I saw it. The Masada is exactly what I'm looking for now that I have numerous ARs in my collection. |
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Posted: 1/13/2007 7:21:47 PM EDT
[#2]
yeah i wasnt to impressed with the Sig when i seen it in person. 
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Posted: 1/14/2007 4:10:07 AM EDT
[#3]
Saw a Sig 556 at the gun show yesterday..looked like CRAP |
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Posted: 1/14/2007 5:53:34 AM EDT
[#4]
This is NOT a "New AR Product"
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Posted: 1/14/2007 6:38:53 AM EDT
[#5]
IT takes AR mags, barrels and rear BUIS. So it is a platform for new AR products 
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Posted: 1/14/2007 7:13:44 AM EDT
[#6]
Damn! Magpul is off the chain.
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Posted: 1/14/2007 7:42:57 AM EDT
[#7]
Would love to have one with 18" barrel and without the folding stock.
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Posted: 1/14/2007 8:42:48 AM EDT
[#8]
Sure it is, it is an AR-18A3. |
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Posted: 1/14/2007 11:01:47 AM EDT
[#9]
Yep, still want one
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Posted: 1/14/2007 11:08:32 AM EDT
[#10]
After the way the SIG guy treated me I will NOT buy one of their rifles.
basically after he found out I was not a distributor or set up with them he really didn't seem to have the time of day for me to tell me jack about the 556. It was a nice looking weapon but that killed it for me. No info, no details, nothing but pretty much well here it is.... and that was it The MASADA will have my money when it is available. The guys from MAGPUL went out of their way to show me everything about it. tore it down, discussed all the barrel options, mags, internals. Rich and Magpul, you guys get a huge plus one for being the most generous booth with information and willingness to talk about your product. Period. |
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Posted: 1/14/2007 12:16:38 PM EDT
[#11]
Exactly what I was thinking. It pisses me off but what can you do. |
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Posted: 1/14/2007 12:27:38 PM EDT
[#12]
I had the same experience with Rich and the rest of the Magpul crew as well. Thanks Rich and the rest or the Magpul team. |
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Posted: 1/14/2007 2:16:39 PM EDT
[#13]
I will seriously consider getting the masada when and if it becomes available to civvies, especially if they make a 308 version that works 100% with FAL mags
 
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Posted: 1/14/2007 2:35:56 PM EDT
[#14]
I have a quick question
Will this be select fire, semi or manufactured in both configurations from the get go? I have a feeling that the target market might not be teh civvies. |
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Posted: 1/15/2007 8:49:39 AM EDT
[#15]
The tan and SPR guns at SHOT were semi only. I do not know if the SBR was safe-semi-auto, though I believe it was not.
The rep stated that they were looking at the throw on the selector. They were considering making it less than 180 degrees. Magpul was talking to everyone, .mil, LEO and civilian alike. They indicated that the Masada will be available to the civilian market. The ergos are nice. I held the SPR and the tan 14.5. The 14.5 was light and well balanced (to me, at least). If the design proves to be reliable and accurate, (they were working on a barrel locking issue) then this may well be a viable alternative to the AR15 platform. Nice first try, I'd say. |
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Posted: 1/15/2007 4:30:51 PM EDT
[#16]
My understanding (and it could be wrong), is that the weapon has been designed from the start to serve in both Semi/FA mode. As a weapon system option available to overseas market, it shouldn't be an issue getting a FA model. I'm not sure why you think the target model wouldn't be available to the civilian market. |
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Posted: 1/15/2007 4:38:46 PM EDT
[#17]
man i can wait!
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Posted: 1/15/2007 4:44:35 PM EDT
[#18]
This has come up in a bunch of the Masada threads. Exactly who do you think the target market is? US military? not a chance LE Agencies? maybe but I doubt too many agencies are going to dump the rifles they have for a totally unproven weapons system Foreign militaries? see above The only guaranteed market that Magpul has for this rifle is the US civilian market. |
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Posted: 1/15/2007 4:55:38 PM EDT
[#19]
Rich and crew are referring to it as "the people's rifle" internally. They fully intend to market it to civvies.
Rich is first class, for sure. My crew got the walkthough from one of the Magpul guys, then Rich went over it, too. It seems well thought out. It field strips well with lots of captured parts. The barrel is easily changed, as well, no tools. It uses standard AR barrels, but they must have a retainer ring pressed onto them. The Masada with the PRS-type stock on it was using a JN barrel. The stocks swap out quickly, with no tools. The stocks are both ajustable and fold to the side due to the lack of a buffer tube in the stock. The target price, according to Rich, is $1300. |
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Posted: 1/15/2007 5:58:38 PM EDT
[#20]
What's up with the name "Masada"?
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Posted: 1/15/2007 6:59:47 PM EDT
[#21]
I love ARs. I love the fact that parts are readily available, BUT I'm willing to bet what little money I have, that the MASADA will in fact, take a great deal of the market in all sectors. Granted law enforcement agencies are under funded and probably couldn't afford the expense of a new design and training associated with it, but let us not forget the surplus of the old design that will be established in association with a new design.
The benefits to this design and construction are huge. Just the fact that so many of these rifles could be made so quickly (i.e. injection molding) would completely railroad any manufacturer of the AR variant. Big Gov would rather buy new rifles than worry about shipping old ones around. And considering the volume of consumption Big Gov is capable of, the MASADA could very easily keep it satisfied with the right production line in operation. To put this in perspective, the AK has seen one of the largest market shares ever established for a rifle. WHY, because it can be made quickly and easily. Now as you consider that point, consider that this design could likely produce the accuracy that the AR variant does. Now, you have a true contender for replacement rifle. It is my belief that the only reason the US Mil hasn't adopted a new rifle is because of the amount of time associated with deployment and training. You can't train people with something you don't have, and you can't use something you can't train with. So any design that replaces the current will have to be able to be implemented quickly. Yes we have all seen the promises of other designs, but considering who and what Magpul has become; I think that this one is the winner over all, and at the least, become the blue print that is needed for the US Mil to adopt a new rifle design. John |
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Posted: 1/15/2007 7:59:27 PM EDT
[#22]
A large number of departments allow their officers to carry their own weapons, provided the caliber is one approved by the department. Hopefully the political climate holds out long enough for all segments of the market to be able to purchase one. |
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Posted: 1/15/2007 9:12:10 PM EDT
[#23]
Something tells me that Magpul can pull this off regardless of the political climate shift it not just in time. I'm the most excited I have ever been about a new weapon system and this is even before testing firing reviews, etc. Magpul has never let me down when it comes to great products and service. I'm sure with their track record this will be no different if not their crowning jewel. |
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Posted: 1/15/2007 9:19:34 PM EDT
[#24]
Magpul could probably charge $200 a piece for us to preorder and I, like many others would happily get in line.
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Posted: 1/16/2007 2:09:45 AM EDT
[#25]
Masada (a romanization of the Hebrew מצדה, Mitzada, from מצודה, metzuda, "fortress") is the name for a site of ancient palaces and fortifications in the South District of Israel on top of an isolated rock plateau on the eastern edge of the Judean Desert overlooking the Dead Sea. Masada became famous for its significance in the First Jewish-Roman War (Great Jewish Revolt), when a siege of the fortress by troops of the Roman Empire led to a mass suicide of the site's Jewish defenders when defeat became imminent. |
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Posted: 1/16/2007 2:50:19 AM EDT
[#26]
hdglock,
If they are going to make a magwell and bolt for a Russian 7.62, Making a magwell and bolt for a NATO 7.62 can't be too far behind. Rich has thought of everything and We ciivvies will get out chance to own.. |
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Posted: 1/16/2007 3:03:53 AM EDT
[#27]
... Customer oriented design team - I love it!
... Haven't seen the specifications yet. Does anyone know what the configuration shown weigh? |
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Posted: 1/16/2007 3:14:29 AM EDT
[#28]
No, the US Mil hasn't adopted a new rifle because the candidates have failed to surpass the M16 in actual utility... The SCAR is not going to live past the initial contract for 600-some rifles... The HK XM-8 never got out of testing... The problem is that as long as a gas-operated semiauto rifle remains the standard issue weapon, you won't get a better one than the M16 for less than the cost of upgrading the M16... This being the case, we are now up to trying to use M16-wives-tales about piston-operation and carbon-fouling (on the part of HK, as the most recent offender) to sell the military a gun they don't need, that offers nothing over the '16... Most of the 'problems' people cite with the M16 don't actually exist, or are largely limited to heavily modified civillian AR-15 models.... Now, does this mean that Magpul is wrong for making a new rifle? NO... The more choices the better... But will it offer anything 'better' than the M16 to a military customer, to a point that it will justify replacement? No... Put it this way: Carbine-wise we are up to at least XM-9 right now... XMs 5, 6, 7, 8 and 9 have failed to beat the M-4... Hmm... Gas piston operation is not superior, folding stocks really don't improve anything, and we've already tried the plastic-gun route (interestingly, the MASADA looks VERY MUCH like an XM-8) with no success - of course Magpul has a very good track record with plastic - maybe they can solve HK's melting problems.... |
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Posted: 1/16/2007 3:19:27 AM EDT
[#29]
I like the concept and the execution. I hope it makes it into commercial production.  But lets be Serious , NO Co. the size of Magpul is EVER going to sell more than a Handful of one-offs to a Govt. Military Service - not US or Foreign. Now Possibly they could sell the Design package to Herstal or HK , but that would probably take it out of the US commercial Market.  Unfortunately ,I think the chances of the Masada replacing the AR as "the rifle of the people" is about nill. |
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Posted: 1/16/2007 6:07:07 AM EDT
[#30]
By no means am I stating that the M16 or M4 rifles aren't good enough. Nor do I think a replacement rifle will come for at least another 10 years (because of the testing requirements) but I do believe that plastic will replace metal at some point. Piston driven or otherwise, I just hope that when it happens, a US company gets the contract.
I don't know what Magpul is capable of with production, but considering that its only been a few years ago when Richard was only making rubber bands for mags, I think that the potential for Magpul to compete against the giants (FN, HK) is possible later down the road. Of course all of this talk amounts to mental masturbation. |
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Posted: 1/16/2007 8:58:40 AM EDT
[#31]
I'm not saying the 18" wouldn't be offered. I was just pointing out that the offerings will be 14.5s with folding stocks and an 18" with a fixed stock. Probably reading too much into it but I was thinking that if they were going to offer them to civvies they would probably sell a bunch of 16.1 inch rifles with the foldinig stock is all. Did I mention I can't wait to get one? I really appreciate the atmosphere in the MagPul area at SHOT compared to some of the other manufactureres. I'm sure the trade show thing is hard work but MagPul seems to really go out of their way to talk with folks. |
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Posted: 1/16/2007 1:38:48 PM EDT
[#32]
Video of the inital test firing of the Masada on Jan 5th, 2007.
Inital Masada test fire (Windows Media- 4 meg) This test was just to show the rifle could function. The rifle was just loose strapped in the rest. When hand firing the shooters reported that it was similar to an M4 (AR15). On the incosistant ejection it could be the ammo as we were firing our cheap Guatemalan training ammo which along with Radway Green seems to have the most issues. On this prototype the bolt carrier was not hardened and was catching on a burr on the hammer. We understand the issues on Military manufacturing and we are under no illusions about it. We actually refered to it internally (as way of a mission statement) as the "free peoples rifle", opposed to the AK which is the "peoples rifle" |
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Posted: 1/16/2007 2:39:10 PM EDT
[#33]
Rich,
Why is it that you and so many others feel that another ban is imminent? Gun control is not politically viable for the foreseeable future. Justin |
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Posted: 1/16/2007 3:23:05 PM EDT
[#34]
Because everyone knows the dems are anti gun. |
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Posted: 1/16/2007 3:28:45 PM EDT
[#35]
If I were a mod, I would ban you for spreading false information, and insinuating an industry partner's product failure based on a completely different weapon system that uses different materials. The parts in red are outright wrong, and the highlight in blue is just to bring your obvious disreguard for product knowledge reguarding the MASADA to light. (Magpul and Rainier Arms) I'm sorry I posted about this in your topic, but if you allow this man to continue posting like so, your topic will end up being a flame war filled with completely incorrect information that will spread like a virus. |
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Posted: 1/16/2007 3:36:30 PM EDT
[#36]
Welcome to arfcom |
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Posted: 1/16/2007 4:31:48 PM EDT
[#37]
The Masada will sell like hot cakes to the civy world. I would guess that a pre-order group buy on ARFCOM would sell lots of MASADA'S!!!
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Posted: 1/16/2007 5:54:38 PM EDT
[#38]
Damn skippy it would. Sign me up... why not?
-ZA
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Posted: 1/16/2007 6:26:42 PM EDT
[#39]
Let me lay on some the flames then.  David, you've been called on your pathological swill more than once. SCAR initial contract is for 1200 units, not 600. How much you want to bet that if they like it, more will follow? An "all-conquering" AR variant was entered into the SCAR program. Guess who won? Guess who didn't? And by who's legitimate estimation are pistons & folding stocks not superior? How do you fathom such features become requirements in military RFP small arms requirements like the SCAR program? Plastic-based materials are successfully employed in contemporary small arms design. (eg. forearms, buttstocks, & lower receivers). ...Back to the original thread.... |
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Posted: 1/16/2007 6:36:42 PM EDT
[#40]
Here are my pics. Thought I'd add them in here as well.
Thanks to Rich, Drake, and all the guys at Magpul. Here are some pics going through a disassembly. Push in the handguard pin and slide off the handguard.   Pull down the "barrel wrench", push in the retaining tab, rotate, and remove the barrel after slightly retracting the bolt.     Barrel showing the attached piston setup.  Push the rear takedown pin and break in half like an AR.   The bolt, carrier, and recoil spring assembly can be removed. A note here...there are steel rails inside the aluminum upper that the carrier rides on. The movement of the carrier on the rails is smooth as glass.  A simple push and twist of the recoil spring assembly allows it to be removed from the carrier.    Push in the stock retaining pin and off comes the stock assembly.   Showing the folding mechanism of the stock with the very cool built in storage tube.  The adjustable two position cheek piece.   Stock folded and slightly extended, yet still clears the ejection port and trigger.  Same as above but with the stock more retracted.  These pics really dont do it justice, but hopefully you can see some of the thought and design put into this. |
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Posted: 1/16/2007 6:40:35 PM EDT
[#41]
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Posted: 1/16/2007 7:28:06 PM EDT
[#42]
That thing appears to cycle pretty damn fast.... Any idea what cyclic rate on full auto would be? |
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Posted: 1/16/2007 7:30:25 PM EDT
[#43]
Great pictures, thankyou for both taking and adding them.
Any other pictures that people have, please post them as well. This is NOT a Rainier Arms sales thread, this is a general info thread on the MASADA. Here is an early Masada pic.... 
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Posted: 1/16/2007 7:45:43 PM EDT
[#44]
Honestly, I just need to figure out if I can find a way to become a Ca. approved AW dealer and see if I can't just sell specifically to my department...
Then I could get my hands on one of these here in merry 'ol California... I'm seriously considering it. Don't really want to be an FFL going gonzo for a slice of the firearms market as it sits in my home town. But maybe specialize in LEO in my county and see if I can't pick up some sales to the PDs in the area, or atleast make a valid attempt at it for the business license and Ca. AW FFL status... |
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Posted: 1/16/2007 8:16:32 PM EDT
[#45]
It is fast at the moment as the carrier used had an unintentional mill op that removed some mass. Target cyclic rate is 800 rpm |
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Posted: 1/16/2007 8:26:44 PM EDT
[#46]
I don't care what anyone ELSE thinks. The Masada is the Bomb!
Maybe this is premature to ask, but what is the ETA? |
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Posted: 1/16/2007 8:28:16 PM EDT
[#47]
I could definitely hear it. Seemed pretty damned fast. Does such a fast cyclic rate beat on the rails or receiver more than neccesary? I ask because some of us in 3 gun/action rifle have had some interesting discussions on our theories of whether it's more beneficial to have a lighter reciprocating mass or to have a heavier reciprocating mass. Usually in terms of whether the action is getting more or less pounded, whether it's a faster follow up shot with a lighter mass carrier, and with respects of how a load may show signs of pressure earlier. Also, I'm curioius on if you'll be using different carrier weights depending on chambering. Such as 7.62x39mm, 5.45x39mm, and 5.56x45mm... |
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Posted: 1/16/2007 8:30:55 PM EDT
[#48]
+ 1. There is so much wrong with the original post that it isn't even funny. M-4s are breaking lugs off bolts like it is going out of style...5K rounds or less. Rebuilt rifles have a 25% failure rate straight from the box. The M-16 is a good weapon but when you shorten the barrel and have to raise the pressure to operate the bolt, you have issues and those issues are seen in the M-4 and even more in the MK 18. Not to mention issues with M855 ball... A piston system that runs at a lower pressure and doesn't spread fouling in its own BCG would solve a LOT of problems. On a side note, I think that the next big revolution will have a lot mroe to do with exotic metals and metal treatments than radical design changes...but that is another topic. |
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Posted: 1/16/2007 9:37:19 PM EDT
[#49]
The hardened carrier is running on hardened internal bearing rails so apart from the higher cyclic rate there should be no issue unless you are firing full auto. The lightened carrier in the video is running at about 1200 |
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Posted: 1/17/2007 1:45:01 AM EDT
[#50]
1) The parts in red are absolutely correct... You may have missed hearing them, or you may have access to info I don't on the SCAR, but the present 'word' is that SCAR is done for after the initial procurement of 600-odd rifles (due to issues with it not living up to it's promised capabilities wrt modularity, and some other 'issues'), and we all know the XM-8 didn't make it for a multitude of reasons (from melting to Beta mags instead of belts)... There have been several 'can we find a better rifle than the M16' trials (ACR trials come to mind here), all have failed to produce a superior weapon.... 2) The part in blue is not an 'assumption about a partner's product' it's a statement - HK has melting problems... Magpul is good with plastic products... It would be nice to see them produce a melt-proof plastic gun - especially if that production moved back into the AR realm (Another polymer AR rec would be nice - a/o just Bushy and Hesse for 'conventional' or CavArms for integrated).. And a guy with 4000 posts asking for me to be banned because I pissed in your cheerios? Grow up... I've got some strong opinions, and I am in no way against or trying to slam MagPul for making a new rifle... The more products on the market, the better - especially at such a legally-favorable time... However, I still personally feel the M16 is the 'best option' for the military, and it's definitely the weapon I'd pick for combat given the choice (of course, I'm not given the choice - but I get an M16 or M4 anyways, so all's well there)....... Simply stating that I don't think this will be better than the M16 doesn't mean there's something wrong with it - the G-36, AUG, and Tavor will never be better than the M16, but it would still be great to have all of them on the market... Fuck, if there was 'something wrong' with a gun just because it's not a M16, I wouldn't own an AK... That's all... |
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