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Posted: 10/27/2004 11:44:56 AM EDT
[#1]
So IF a SAM is a person how can you have one per coast?
And the similarities between the SAM-R and th M16A4 are only skin deep. |
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Posted: 10/27/2004 11:47:43 AM EDT
[#2]
I didn't say it was person. Let me do this for ya. You asked what is a SAM. Ok. A SAM is a Surface to Air Missile.
a SAM-R is a Squad Advanced Marksman Rifle. Do you see the R. Now if you so choose to personify a rifle then please go ahead. As to only having one SAM-R per coast i have no idea. |
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Posted: 10/27/2004 1:41:13 PM EDT
[#4]
The SAM will be a billet within the squad, Squad Advance Marksmen. His rifle is the SAM-R. There is only one type of SAM-R out there, the one incorrectly referred to as the East Coast SAM-R. What is referred to as a West Coast SAM-R (again incorrectly) is nothing more the planned standard weapon for Marine riflemen in the Marine division. Why it got that name "west coast SAM-R" was 1st Marine Division didn't have any SAM-Rs for OIF I and the CG Gen Mattis wanted SAMs with SAM-R type capability in his division for the war. He was able to get a rush shipment of A4 MWSs and ACOGs to field limited numbers of rifles.
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Posted: 10/27/2004 3:38:33 PM EDT
[#5]
 ETA: what the hell is that rainbow thingie doing 
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Posted: 10/27/2004 6:04:42 PM EDT
[#6]
Wrong. There are several, key, differences between the SAM-R and the M16A4: 1) The M16A4 uses a standard Gov't profile barrel while the SAM-R uses a National Match Krieger SS barrel. 2) The M16A4 uses a Knights M5 RAS while the SAM-R uses a Knights free float system 3) The M16A4 uses a standard mil-spec fire control group while the SAM-R uses a Knights 2 stage trigger. 4) The M16A4 uses either a detachable carry handle or an ACOG while the SAM-R uses a Leupold MR/T M3. All of the above contribrute to making the SAM-R more accurate than a standard M16A4. It's not quite a sniper rifle but it's more capable of making accurate shoots than a standard M16. |
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Posted: 10/27/2004 6:05:48 PM EDT
[#7]
 Isn't that some sort of ghey pride symbol? |
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Posted: 10/27/2004 6:33:00 PM EDT
[#8]
hehe
 lots of glass in the house, not my fault 
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Posted: 10/27/2004 7:28:22 PM EDT
[#9]
Just as long as you don't have one of those stickers on your car. |
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Posted: 10/27/2004 9:10:57 PM EDT
[#10]
Which would be why I refered to them as A4s... |
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Posted: 10/27/2004 10:19:46 PM EDT
[#11]
I"m building my version of the M16A4 and wanted to confirm a couple of things. Which version of the trijicon scope are they using. I thought it was a TA31F because it was able to match the BDC when mounted to a 20" flat top eaiser. Also does the M16 M5 RAS by Knight's require more work to install then just snapping off the old handguards and replacing them with a new handguard. I don't want to have to screw around with replacing the front gas block.
Side question on the TA31F - Does the BDC on the TA31F sync up with a 20" flattop firing M855. I know Bartholomew info stated that it worked within MOA of the BDC using M193. Leadfoot |
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Posted: 10/28/2004 4:16:19 AM EDT
[#12]
Wrong. There are several, key, differences between the SAM-R and the M16A4: 1) The M16A4 uses a standard Gov't profile barrel while the SAM-R uses a National Match Krieger SS barrel. 2) The M16A4 uses a Knights M5 RAS while the SAM-R uses a Knights free float system 3) The M16A4 uses a standard mil-spec fire control group while the SAM-R uses a Knights 2 stage trigger. 4) The M16A4 uses either a detachable carry handle or an ACOG while the SAM-R uses a Leupold MR/T M3. All of the above contribrute to making the SAM-R more accurate than a standard M16A4. It's not quite a sniper rifle but it's more capable of making accurate shoots than a standard M16. Thats why I said the Similaritys are Skin deep not the Differences And IF you search SAM-R you will see that it dosent have A kinght trigger. |
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Posted: 10/28/2004 5:46:34 AM EDT
[#13]
Not sure where you get your information but I searched like you said and this came up on the first hit. As you can see it clearly states the SAM-R uses a Knights 2-Stage trigger. I'm sure ColdBlue can verify this too so I IM'd him this thread so he can clear up any confusion you may have. explanation-guide.info/meaning/USMC-SAM-R.html |
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Posted: 10/28/2004 6:06:04 AM EDT
[#14]
Ground Combat Element - SAM-R -150K .pdf
This is from the MCWL I think they know Who is coldblue??? Alright I suck with a computer search for SAM-R in AR-15 For the past 30 days you get a lint about some SAM-R info From the MCWL. |
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Posted: 10/28/2004 6:58:21 AM EDT
[#15]
Check your source out a little more carefully, because it clearly states it was an assessment as in they were testing and evaluating. Also, look at the dates; it's over 18 months old. See the deliverables? That means they had to deliver their reports and their requirements after they finished. As you can see they still hadn't decided on whether or not they were going to use a SS or chrome-lined barrel too. However, we know now, like we do about the trigger they choose the SS barrel. Your link only proved what they started their testing with, not what the fielded configuration is. |
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Posted: 10/28/2004 8:38:14 AM EDT
[#16]
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Posted: 10/28/2004 8:55:34 AM EDT
[#17]
We have! I know you are new here but several on this thread have passed on info that has been asked dozens of times and answered dozens of times. Does that make it set in stone? No, by no means but there are several here that actually build these weapons for the Marines and other "units" that can tell you what parts they place in these rifles when the go out. Just sit back and learn my friend as there's a ton of info here if you just take the time to read (and cut through the BS)  Also, I don't doubt that there may be M16A4s out there that are filling the role of the SAM-R. I only telling you what the specs called for. ColdBlue, MSTN & ADCO, to name a few, have a much greater knowledge of the specific parts than I do. |
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Posted: 10/28/2004 9:46:47 AM EDT
[#18]
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Posted: 10/28/2004 9:59:02 AM EDT
[#19]
I'd rather let guys like ColdBlue answer procurement questions. I'm only interested in the specific parts list so I can build one. I know that Knights Armament has the contract and I would imagine they build the upper receivers in house and at least supply the triggers and 600m BUIS. Leupold supplies the MRT M3s as they were awared a contract of some sorts. I've seen pictures of uppers with Badger Ord. scope mounts so maybe those are open purchased? Like I said, I don't know the specifics about how they are purchased for the USMC but I know what I see bolted on the rifles themselves. There is no reason why a USMC Armorer could not drop a trigger group in, slap on a new upper, BUIS and mount a scope on a set of rings...no reason at all. ETA: if you are asking where they get their standard M16A4s then the answer is simple...they get them from FN in South Carolina. Delivered in crates, fully assmembled and ready to roll. Same as the Army. |
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Posted: 10/28/2004 11:22:20 AM EDT
[#20]
Marc, dont feed the troll.
Ignore it and it'll go away. |
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Posted: 10/28/2004 12:00:08 PM EDT
[#21]
Call me what you will I question your info thats all.
Nobody will tell me where they come from for sure so I dont belive. wheres coldblue he is the only name that has been said with any REAL knowledge on the subject. |
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Posted: 10/28/2004 1:21:45 PM EDT
[#22]
ColdBlue is Dave Lutz who is a higher up at Knights. He is one of several excellent sources of info here. Its not likely that he checks in on a daily basis so you may have to wait to hear from him. BTW, it was my understanding the SAM-R's had Knights 2 stage triggers.
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Posted: 10/28/2004 1:23:06 PM EDT
[#23]
The Marine Corps is buying M16A4s from both Colt and FN. |
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Posted: 10/28/2004 1:32:50 PM EDT
[#24]
That's fine, you can question all you want but I produced a source for you so I'm not sure what else I can do.  Like I told you and like STLRN said above the USMC gets their M16's from FN (and probably still some from Colt). They buy them direct from the manufacture for a little over $500 each. You get that kind of discount when you buy millions at a time.
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Posted: 10/28/2004 2:15:51 PM EDT
[#25]
Well, I have and answer about the TA31F working with the M855 bullet on the A4 configuration, but I would still like an answer before my post is long forgotton about which Trijicon is used in the M16A4 configuration. |
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Posted: 10/28/2004 5:05:02 PM EDT
[#26]
TA31F.
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Posted: 10/28/2004 5:26:42 PM EDT
[#27]
Which is why we can't find them! 
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Posted: 10/28/2004 11:30:14 PM EDT
[#28]
Thanks for the reply.
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Posted: 11/2/2004 3:39:28 PM EDT
[#29]
Question: I know the M16A4 is a 20" A3 configured rifle with a TA31F and a KAC M5 RAS but wouldn't the rifle be better off dropping the KAC RAS and going with the standard handguards. My reasoning is because of the pressure on the barrel from using a vertical grip with the KAC. Since the barrel is not free floated wouldn't the shooter apply more pressure against the barrel when firing using the vertical grip then just supporting the rifle when firing using the standard handguards. The additional pressure could affect the accuracy of the rifle especially when the barrel heats up. If I'm wrong correct me.
I'm still building the rifle but it seems the military would be better off dropping the KAC M5 RAS and going with the standard handguards or get a free floating handguard. I like vertical grips but I don't want them if it could affect the accuracy of the rifle. |
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Posted: 11/2/2004 3:45:11 PM EDT
[#30]
Notice the number of flashlights and IR lasers mounted on the M16A4s?
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Posted: 11/2/2004 4:41:12 PM EDT
[#31]
I now see what you mean. I didn't even notice all of those extra accessories hanging off the rifle. For me the standard handguards are the way to go since I don't plan on mounting anything off the rifle, plus you'll get a technically more consistant rifle.
Honestly I like the look of the M16A4 with the standard handguards and the ACOG mounted directly to the receiver. Well at least that's how I feel about it now. |
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