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Posted: 6/19/2005 11:19:10 AM EDT
[#1]
Well well well. This certainly adds an iron to fire here. I am on the verge of their 1:7 govt m4ramped barrel as we speak. However, I for sure am looking at a FF setup, and possibly a new gas block (railed for flip ups).
I mean it looks like ultimately, I have some options to get someone to take it off, but that still doesn't sound like a picnic to me, shipping my brand new barrel around and paying extra $$. hmmm  Gundraw |
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Posted: 6/20/2005 4:09:38 AM EDT
[#2]
Sabre Defence Has Never painted or powder coated uppers or lowers if the finish is coming off it should be sent back to SDI for replacement. There was a change in annodizers some time back one might have sliped thru QA, as for a ding if it is under the hard coat it is most likley a forging mark as we do no machining to the outside surfaces just tumble and bead blast before the hard coating. (except the picatenny rail) I have 20 or so of them on my desk and no unusal marking on the left side. oem. |
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Posted: 6/20/2005 4:29:14 AM EDT
[#3]
Corey, Sorry to see you had trouble with your barrel the pins are tapered and are put in from the right hand side as you look thru the sights and should be removed from the left, I have no picture to show of Chase the young man who installs the sight bases but he is 6'3" and weighs in at about 450 lb's I will ask him to lighten up a bit. However I have had a sight base come lose in the past while shooting a match and it is not much fun, so we try keep them as tight as we can and still be able to remove them later for repair and such. If any one has a problem with this or any other Sabre product please feel free to give me a call and we will make it right ASAP! Grant Morgan Commercial Products Manager Sabre Defence Industries LLC, 450 Allied Drive Nashville Tn. 37211 Phone (615) 333-0077 Fax (615) 333-6229 (www.sabredefence.com) |
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Posted: 6/20/2005 6:06:21 AM EDT
[#4]
Thanks Grant! I guess I need to update this thread -- it was my fault!  To be honest, I tried to measure the pins before driving them out, but they were virtually flush with the front sight assembly and I couldn't get any good readings off of them. I started to try and punch them out the correct direction to hedge my bets, but when that didn't work (and the heads mushroomed) I thought I'd presume they were straight pins and give the other direction a try. Hopefully I'll be getting the barrel back from MGI today. I can't wait to assemble this thing! As much as I love my Recce-ish carbine, I think this is going to be my favorite. Props to twl and MGI for their outstanding customer service. Also thanks to oem (Sabre) for taking the time to post on this thread (and for taking it easy on me for screwing up the disassembly). Corey (who is dropping not only the dremel tool but also the punches and sledgehammer and slowly stepping away from the AR15 on the workbench...) |
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Posted: 6/20/2005 7:19:35 AM EDT
[#5]
It's always nice to see product reps comment on their product, rather than letting the ARFCOM rumor mill run rampant on what could be a quality product. |
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Posted: 6/20/2005 1:58:42 PM EDT
[#6]
I'll try to get some pics up tonight of the Sabre upper.
I wasn't able to shoot any groups with it because the ARMS M68 wouldn't clamp tight to the upper. That same ARMS M68 grabs tight to my Bushmaster upper. |
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Posted: 6/20/2005 2:39:39 PM EDT
[#7]
 ?
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Posted: 6/20/2005 4:11:40 PM EDT
[#8]
Paul is going to come out with 16" mid-length gas system, 4150, 1/7 twist, 5.56 NATO and M4 barrel ext. for a VERY reasonable price! I would wait for these (about 6 weeks) and look for a group buy on them!  C4 |
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Posted: 6/20/2005 4:13:19 PM EDT
[#9]
Negative! CMT makes receivers for Colt and we ALL know those are NOT painted! C4 |
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Posted: 6/20/2005 5:57:47 PM EDT
[#10]
Here are the pics of my friend's Sabre midlength upper showing the dent in the left side of the receiver, the peeling anodizing and the barrel markings. This upper has about 20 rounds through it. I gave up because the ARMS M68 wouldn't clamp tight so it wouldn't group. It did run fine.
The only reason I suspected it was a CMT upper is that the three CMT T-marked uppers that came from GTS have the same problems. I just think for the prices they charge they should use a higher quality receiver. http://www.hunt101.com/img/298660.jpg http://www.hunt101.com/img/298661.jpg http://www.hunt101.com/img/298663.jpg http://www.hunt101.com/img/298665.jpg |
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Posted: 6/20/2005 6:00:58 PM EDT
[#11]
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Posted: 6/20/2005 6:15:14 PM EDT
[#12]
Just a member now? |
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Posted: 6/20/2005 6:24:37 PM EDT
[#13]
These receivers don't look like the CMT's I sell and don't have any of the standard marking that you generally find on them. I would say that if the ARMS #22M68 is new and it won't clamp tight onto the rail (and you have tried it on another receiver and it will) I would be talking to someone about the receiver. If the #22M68 is old and came off another receiver then the lever is most likely stretched out (happens with ARMS throw levers) and I would contact ARMS about a replacement. C4 |
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Posted: 6/20/2005 6:53:14 PM EDT
[#14]
What marks do you generally find? |
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Posted: 6/20/2005 6:56:20 PM EDT
[#15]
I hope no one took my posts as starting rumors. I tried to keep it very clear that I could have been at fault for not getting the pins out (and, low and behold, I was!). I have always tried in my posts and product opinions to be fair, accurate, and truthful. Corey PS These darn pins had my going NUTZ, though! Instead of being perfectly flat on the ends, they appeared to have been almost turned down to a rounded off point (maybe to fit inside of a cupped punch?). I tried to measure them six ways from Sunday but couldn't get a conclusive measurement. After trying to get them out the "normal" way, I figured (after a member comment here that they looked like straight pins) to give them a try the other way. It doesn't sound like ANYONE else had this problem, though. So maybe this was just a really bad intersection of pins and apprentice DiY'er syndrome. At any rate, both Sabre and MGI stood ready, willing and able to bail me out of my screw up. (MGI didn't even let me pay them when I offered!) Argh! Let this thread die please ... it's getting freaking embarassing!  EDITED for typo. |
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Posted: 6/20/2005 8:43:39 PM EDT
[#16]
It is hard to tell much from your pictures.
On the brass deflector, inspect it closely. Are you sure it is not just a brass mark? Also, inside the upper it is normal for an upper to wear in that area, but there should be no "chipping" of the anodizing. Can we take this to another thread please? Corey, don't be embarrassed, we've ALL been there! The only difference is some are afraid to own up/admit to it, and that's the only thing to be embarrassed about. Also, I'm not so sure you weren't doing things right anyway.. |
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Posted: 6/20/2005 11:48:19 PM EDT
[#17]
That aint no CMT upper. There should be a big 'ol "C" on the inside ceiling of the upper, right at the end of the gastube like such: I have two CMT upper receivers from Denny, and one from Grant. All are identical. All have the pictured "C". None are purple like that mess you posted. None have the "typical CMT ding" that you speak of I smell a
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Posted: 6/21/2005 3:33:31 AM EDT
[#18]
Well if it is just an A3 receiver (no M4 cuts) then you generally see the letter A on the side (not always). If it is an M4 receiver then you could see any of the following things: M4 stamp above the gas hole, letter "C" stamped in the inside (see Nick's pic) or the letter "C" on the side with a Keyhole symbol next to it). C4 |
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Posted: 6/21/2005 4:49:16 AM EDT
[#19]
Wow, lots of good stuff in this thread!
Thanks for the direct feedback Sabre! 
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Posted: 6/21/2005 4:51:03 AM EDT
[#20]
Sweet. |
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Posted: 6/21/2005 5:39:08 AM EDT
[#21]
Here are a couple of pics of one of the "CMT" uppers I received from GTS. They have no "C" mark inside. The discoloring at the ding is exactly how I received it. The white spec below is just lint or something. You can also see the similar peeling on the case deflector.
This is where my three receivers were ordered from. globaltactical.com/axami/shop.php?grd=153 Hmmm? NickDrak, I don't know why you would think I'm a troll. I have nothing to gain here. Just trying to point out my observations. Could that "C" mark be for Colt? Maybe a CMT upper made for Colt? http://www.hunt101.com/img/298793.jpg http://www.hunt101.com/img/298795.jpg |
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Posted: 6/21/2005 5:44:00 AM EDT
[#22]
Is this "C" stamping inside the receiver a 100% thing on CMT upper receivers???? It's the first I've ever heard of seen about it.
Or is this going to be one of those consistently inconsistent AR-15 markings, just like everything else out there. On a side note, I'd bet the receiver pictured above isn't a CMT, but I don't understand why GTS would sell them to you as CMT. |
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Posted: 6/21/2005 8:02:03 AM EDT
[#23]
FWIW my RRA is missing a small amount of anodizing from the same area of the case deflector... but then again, I do shoot my carbine a bit...
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Posted: 6/21/2005 8:54:36 AM EDT
[#24]
2 more CMT receivers purchased from Denny with "chipping" problems. Both have around 300rds. through them.
Also notice the appearance of machine marks inside this one. I can feel the section where the anno has worn off with my fingernail.  Another receiver: 
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Posted: 6/21/2005 9:01:21 AM EDT
[#25]
CMT makes receivers for COLT. C4 |
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Posted: 6/21/2005 9:03:47 AM EDT
[#26]
No it is NOT 100% of them. I got 10 CMT M4 receivers in awhile ago. 5 of them had the Colt "C" and Key hole on the side, but didn't have the M4 stamp above the gas hole. The other five had the letter "A" on the side and the M4 stamp above the gas hole. I have also gotten some that had zero marking on the side, but had the M4 stamp above the gas hole and the letter "C" stamped in the inside of the receiver. C4 |
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Posted: 6/21/2005 9:11:34 AM EDT
[#27]
For CMT the "A" on the right side of the receiver will only be there sometimes (depends where the raw forging was purchased from) the "A" will or won't be on both standard flat tops and M4 flat tops Some of the CMT M4 flat tops will have a small "M-4" stamped in the front of the receiver over the hole for the gas tube, but many will not. If it does have the "M-4" stamped above the gas tube hole, most/all (can't recall exactly) will have a letter "C" stamped on the inside where the charging handle rides. So in that sence, as you stated above - it is consistantly inconsistant hope this helps . . . |
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Posted: 6/21/2005 9:12:44 AM EDT
[#28]
Grant, I looks like I was typing while you were also.
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Posted: 6/21/2005 9:20:48 AM EDT
[#29]
Just to show what oem/sabre was talking about.
Below is a picture of a finished M4 upper (in the white) Hopefully the picture will show -- the exterior of the forging is not machined. The machining is done for the pic rails, the ejection port cover area (lower) and the take down/piviot pin area. 
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Posted: 6/21/2005 9:25:07 AM EDT
[#30]
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Posted: 6/21/2005 9:25:15 AM EDT
[#31]
So, let's get this straight. I have 4 "CMT" uppers. 3 are M4 and 1 is standard. NONE of them have any markings that are being described here. 2 of them have anno problems. 1 is currently not being used in a build and the other has less than 200rds. through it so I don't know if it will develop any problems. So, what is the deal? |
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Posted: 6/21/2005 9:39:47 AM EDT
[#32]
Pics of the currently unused upper. The anodization looks the thickest on this one, if it even is anodized and not painted. Does anyone have some good pics of their CMT uppers?
   
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Posted: 6/21/2005 10:33:48 AM EDT
[#33]
I doubt you have contacted Denny in regards to your CMT upper issues. I you had contacted him, they would have been resolved by now. |
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Posted: 6/21/2005 10:41:18 AM EDT
[#34]
New thread to end the hijack:
CMT uppers |
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Posted: 6/21/2005 4:55:56 PM EDT
[#35]
My beef isn't with GTS. I fugured I bought cheap receivers and got what I paid for. My beef is with Sabre. They charge big bucks but use cheap receivers with crappy looking barrel markings. That's not how you win customers. |
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Posted: 6/23/2005 10:06:01 AM EDT
[#36]
I have that same "peeling" on the brass-deflector of every upper that I have ever owned (1-Armalite, 3-LMT, 1-BM, 3-CMT) and have seen it on every other upper that I have seen that has been shot. Its normal! Here is my LMT/MRP upper with the same "peeling". Definately not "cheap"  I dont see how anyone can call CMT uppers "cheap" when they manufacture them for others like Colt. Is it because they dont charge the extra $50-$100 premium for the Colt markings? |
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Posted: 6/24/2005 4:49:17 AM EDT
[#37]
You have not contacted Sabre About it as well, as I posted in the 1st thread we will replace any product that has a problem or that the customer is not happy with. If you don't let us know you have a problem then we can not fix it! Grant Morgan Commercial Products Manager Sabre Defence Industries LLC, 450 Allied Drive Nashville Tn. 37211 Phone (615) 333-0077 Fax (615) 333-6229 (www.sabredefence.com) |
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Posted: 6/24/2005 8:15:33 AM EDT
[#38]
oem,
I'll pass this info on to my friend and let him decide what he wants to do about it. It's obvious that you don't test fire your complete uppers or you would have noticed the chipping problem before you shipped it out. All of my bushmaster uppers have arrived directly from them with brass marks on the case deflector. |
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Posted: 6/24/2005 8:38:34 AM EDT
[#39]
0123456789: Keep this crap out of this thread. It's becoming increasingly clear to everyone here that this is turning into an effort to discredit the vendors involved (here, directly Sabre). That is last comment of your was unfair, unwarranted, and made completely without any factual basis. All of the vendors discussed in this and the CMT thread are good people who would square you away in a heartbeat if given the chance. If you have been following the thread, you'll see that I had problems with the pins on a Sabre barrel. Could've been tight pins. Could've been my fault. At any rate my less than graceful attempts at removing them were certainly a huge contributing factor (i.e., my fault). Grant (oem) offered to help me out and get me where I needed to go. Fortunately for me, I had immediately contacted the vendor that sold me the barrel (Tom/twl at MGI) who helped me out free of charge (despite my offers to pay for their services). That's outstanding customer service from both of those gentlemen and speaks highly of their companies. I don't care who you are or what you're buying. Nothing is ever going to be 100% -- occassionally you'll get something with a problem. I personally worry less about stuff like this happening and look more toward what the vendor does to help me get back on track with things. I generally would expect no charges if it's a factory defect, and the flip side of that coin is I expect to pay for my mistakes if I screwed things up (like the taper pins). The point was made in this thread and I believe the other -- these complaints wouldn't exist if the company had been contacted in the first place. Corey |
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Posted: 6/24/2005 9:01:46 AM EDT
[#40]
+1 |
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Posted: 6/24/2005 9:30:14 AM EDT
[#41]
Well said Corey. Can this subject die now?
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Posted: 6/24/2005 12:08:53 PM EDT
[#42]
Hey guys,
I just stumbled onto this thread, so excuse me for coming in so late. Corey, I must say I am very happy that you got your problem fixed. When in doubt, always use a bench block and only punch the pins from the left! I am also happy to hear that you are pleased with the quality of your Sabre barrel. I was also very impressed with their products which is why we selected them to bring our mid-length 1/7 twist barrels with M4 feed ramps to market. Their quality and commitment to customer service are outstanding. These barrels will be availble in July, so let me know when you are ready for another build. Maybe I can talk you into mounting a Samson MRFS on it as well.  |
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Posted: 6/24/2005 1:02:02 PM EDT
[#43]
I tried from the left (correct) side, but someone here said it looked like it could be straight pins. When it didn't move and the pin mushroomed from the left, I gave the right a try in case they were straight. I couldn't get an accurate measurement on them as they didn't really stick out from the side of the front sight assembly. Oh well....
You know, I'm trying not to beat myself up too badly for not waiting for the 1/7....
Oooooowww. Now that was a low blow! Lemme fix it for you.
Now that's probably something that we can both agree on!  Corey PS Good job bringing those 1/7 Sabre's to the market. It is IMHO the barrel to have for a chrome lined carbine. |
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Posted: 6/26/2005 8:40:20 PM EDT
[#44]
Any updates on how your new upper shoots yet?
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Posted: 6/27/2005 5:33:55 AM EDT
[#45]
Me? I'll probably be getting the barrel back in the next couple of days. The build will probably take place that first night. I should be able to get pics up then ASAP. (Incidentally, I found a few more of the gas tube, markings, etc. on my camera that I still need to post.) I probably won't be able to actually shoot the thing mid-July.  Corey |
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Posted: 6/27/2005 6:25:00 AM EDT
[#46]
So what was the rush? You should have waited for the 1-7's...
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Posted: 6/27/2005 6:36:08 AM EDT
[#47]
Nothing like rubbing salt in the wounds, eh Jimbo? Corey EDITED to add that by the time I actually get around to shooting this thing, there will be new midweight ammo on the market and 1/9 will again be all the rage....
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Posted: 6/27/2005 4:57:28 PM EDT
[#48]
LOL! Just giving you a hard time...
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Posted: 7/13/2005 8:06:07 AM EDT
[#49]
I had the same problem...
The first taper pin came out in 3 or 4 good whacks. The second is still in there! Emailed Grant at Sabre and he offered to fix it and send it back. Great service! He said they were shocked how many people wanted to remove their front sights... I guess you can't fault them for that.I will be looking at Sabre for future projects for sure. |
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Posted: 7/13/2005 11:11:32 AM EDT
[#50]
This is the first lightweight, high quality midlength barrel available in 1/7. He shouldn't be surprised that many see this as the best barrel to build into a railed upper for one's "go to" rifle. |
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