Quoted: Maybe your LMT will look like this... i32.tinypic.com/14ngwnp.jpg

Now that's just wrong. My LMT was similar.

thats a special LMT high end feature to balance the rifle out as the safety switch made it a little heavy on the left...

If colt sold a ar15 A2 20" just like they had in the 1st. D.S. I'd buy It now. (simi auto only)

First off I'll say I don't think I've met an AR yet I didn't like.

Secondly I'll say most of my experiences with AR's have been with the 20" Bushmasters I and my ex-jarhead little brother own, and Dad's old A1 Colt 20" which is almost as old as me.


This is only my personal observation... but Dad's old Colt and our Bushies seem very close in quality. They're all very reliable and very accurate. Dad's Colt keeps on ticking even with his 30+ year old 20-round USGI aluminum mags. This is the rifle which taught me about the AR15. It has sentimental value for me. It has thousands upon thousands of rounds through it. I don't recall it ever malfunctioning except for the occasional bad round. He's never had to replace anything but a few gas rings.

He started me shooting that old AR when I was just a little kid. I loved it. I still do.

For that very reason, I as a Bushmaster owner will not participate in any Colt bashing.

I know better. Colt makes a fine rifle.


On the other hand, the Bushmasters owned by myself and my brother so far have a track record for reliability that rivals Dad's Colt. I have over 3K rounds through mine with no rifle-related malfunctions and it's not a picky eater. My brother's Bushmaster doesn't like steel cased ammo and he's has fired about twice as many rounds through his as mine has shot.

I replaced the BCG on mine, but more as a preventative measure. My brother is considering putting a Young or LaRue BCG in his. My Bushy's carrier key was staked, but it could have been a little better. 0n my brother's, the staking was poor. Still, this is something easily remedied by upgrading to a better BCG. That's my only gripe with Bushmaster, and it's a minor one. How many of us on this site buy ARs and then modify them till we get them where we want them? I'd reckon most of us do.

Would I trust my life with Dad's antique Colt? Absolutely. Would I trust my life with my newfangled A3 Bushmaster? Absolutely. Which is better? I'd say the old Colt, but not really by much. But then again I'm biased because I've known that old Colt longer than my brother's been alive. It's almost like a sibling to me.


Buy what you like.

If you are a Colt fan, then buy a Colt. Buy two or more. Be happy.

If you're not, buy something else. If it's a proven rifle; accurate, reliable, and serves you well... then that's really what matters most isn't it?

If you're undecided, buy one from every AR manufacturer and enjoy some diversity!

I think the original poster is in CA: therefore he cannot own a Colt: therefore he has to convince himself that the Colt isn't that good anyways so he can feel better about the off-brands that he does own.

On another note, Re: The LMT front sight.
I wonder how long it will take for the LMT fanboys to come in and start saying how you need to send it back to LMT and how fantastic their customer service is and how they will surely send you a new rifle ASAP, completely ignoring the fact that it should have never left the factory like that in the first place.

That is why you pay more money for the Colt: is because they don't let stuff out of the factory with glaring flaws like that.  I don't care how good LMT's service is, or how crappy Colt's is.  I would much rather have someone hand me a piece of gold and frown at me than hand me a turd and smile at me.

Colt like other real deal arsenals such as Izhmash, FN, SIG, Beretta, HK, etc, proof, test fire, and zero their weapons.  At the same time U.S. manufactures can get away with selling reversed engineered copies of the previously mentioned that are not proofed, test fired, and zeroed because it is legal here to sell such crap, and there is a market here for really cheap knock offs.  And there are those who will ask why buy the real thing when you can get a rip off cheaper.

height=8

Quoted: I think the original poster is in CA: therefore he cannot own a Colt: therefore he has to convince himself that the Colt isn't that good anyways so he can feel better about the off-brands that he does own.

hy
I'm pointing out that for less money you can get just as good of a rifle, what state I live in has nothing to do with the issue.

Quoted: and us ex-military folks tend to like the brand we were issued in the service.

I talk to all of the gun nuts in my unit and those that we were attached to, and no one owned or wanted to own a Colt.  Don't get me wrong, I never had one problem with my issued M4. I was issued a brand new from the factory Colt M4, I got to clean off the cosmoline, or what ever they use, and proceded to break it in on our predeployment training, 3k+ rds.  Never had a problem.  The only flaw was the fit of the upper and lower, it was not tight.  But most of my buddies wanted to buy bushmasters and dpms, and when I asked them why not colt, and they said they hated the quality of them.  Maybe its due the beat up rifles the Corps issues us or something but nobody could really explain their dislike for Colt ar15s.  I myself cant really explain why I won't buy a Colt, but I won't.

What about the ownership of Colt today?

I have never noticed this mentioned here.

CMI (Colt Manufacturing, Inc.) is owned by New York banker, Donald Zilkha, who still maintains his Iraqi citizenship.

I thought this was interesting:
LINK to quote below

Colt's Caught Red-Handed Donating to Charles Schumer's Campaign Fund ... General on April 30, 2008 The Libertarian Enterprise electronic magazine, issue 39, for June 26, 1998 ... investment bank Zilkha and Company and one of its principals, Donald Zilkha, ...

I own a few Colt's and also collect Colt SSA pistols but I find the ownership of Colt today a bit disturbing.

Quoted: i4.photobucket.com/albums/y109/phuzzygnu/colt.jpg . . .  or broke people who drink the Kool-Aid: i4.photobucket.com/albums/y109/phuzzygnu/PB140017.jpg -P.

 

That is the most ignorant thing I have ever read.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I often feel the same sentiment as your post suggests.  That said COLT has been a consistent top qualirt manufacturer longer than LMT or NOVESKE which KoolAid I do own and drink!  Is COLT overpriced?  Yes.  But so is LMT and NOVESKE.  As LE I get a discount from all 3.  I own all 3.  The discount aint much.  But in fairness all 3 will get a weapont o LE or military asap.   They are all damn good and QC is fantastic.  Sure some errors make it through the cracks but the above 3 are the bomb.  If you can build your own then you should.  I can, and have a Mega lower, Stag LPK, RR 2stage trigger, RR upper, Wilson 16'SS H barrel, w/ Vortex and YHM light rail that shoots under .75 (I can't get it to .5 to claim it and have tried like a SOB).   I would say that the price for a Noveske is fair, considering what they put into their barrels and the "extras" you get. However, I wouldn't go so far to say LMT is overpriced. Also, what is the point of a 16" heavy barrel? It's kind of funny that you mention that. I think the new turn towards HBAR-type is just a flavor of the month thing. A year ago, gov't profile was all the rage. Who wanted to haul a heavy HBAR all day in their latest cool guy class? I mean, in my line of work people do it all the time with a 25 lbs 240B. Fast forward a year and some flavor of the month company drops a cool name on the HBAR ("Operator") and no one ever questions it. The funny thing is that a lot of the same people that used to mouth off about the HBAR being a cheap company's way of cutting cost now pay more for an HBAR-type profile. Ahhhhhh...Sigh....ARFcom- I give up I must say, all the sweet deals on Colt HBARs that I have gotten since the gov't profile rage has set me, my children, and children's children up with really sweet builds. I'm not complaining As to the "why Colt" question.... I say piece together and build your own. You will be much happier with the end results.

I choose a Wilson SS H no profile turned becasue it was what I wanted to put in my build.  I also have a 16 and 18 SS w/ no profile for my LMT MRP.  It was simply a personal choice.  Shoots great, chicks dig it 2  This is not a rifle for work or humpin around anywhere.  Just plain old shooting fun.

I agree to a point, while I sold off my Colts (hated those large pins) I think that if you had to build a rifle with top quality you need to focus on the bolt and barrel.

if you had a mutt rifle with a Colt barrel and a Colt bolt, and at the very least a Colt bolt you would be good to go.

the rest of the rifle is just parts. expecially the lower.

Quoted: Colt like other real deal arsenals such as Izhmash, FN, SIG, Beretta, HK, etc, proof, test fire, and zero their weapons.  At the same time U.S. manufactures can get away with selling reversed engineered copies of the previously mentioned that are not proofed, test fired, and zeroed because it is legal here to sell such crap, and there is a market here for really cheap knock offs.  And there are those who will ask why buy the real thing when you can get a rip off cheaper.

True that.

Colt is essentially our National arsenal, and has been since 1836. They follow the proper manufacturing methods, testing, and certification necessary to ensure a quality product.  

Building the AR15/M16/M4 for our Armed Forces for over 40 years will teach you a thing or two about how it should be done.


edit for Colt's founding date correction

Quoted: Quoted: and us ex-military folks tend to like the brand we were issued in the service. I talk to all of the gun nuts in my unit and those that we were attached to, and no one owned or wanted to own a Colt.  Don't get me wrong, I never had one problem with my issued M4. I was issued a brand new from the factory Colt M4, I got to clean off the cosmoline, or what ever they use, and proceded to break it in on our predeployment training, 3k+ rds.  Never had a problem.  The only flaw was the fit of the upper and lower, it was not tight.  But most of my buddies wanted to buy bushmasters and dpms, and when I asked them why not colt, and they said they hated the quality of them.  Maybe its due the beat up rifles the Corps issues us or something but nobody could really explain their dislike for Colt ar15s.  I myself cant really explain why I won't buy a Colt, but I won't.

They want to buy Bushy and DPMS because they are knuckleheads and dont know any better. There is also the phenomenon of GIs thinking that anything they are issued is crap. I know more Marines who think the AK is a superior weapon, the M9 is a piece of shit, the SAW wont run on a magazine. Go ahead and be a cheap fucker and buy the DPMS then come back and post threads asking for troubleshooting help when it stops running. better yet, go buy a Vulcan, they're "the guns of the special forces" and a 1/3 the price of a colt.

Quoted: I mean really. Lets look at the 6920. For those that don't know (which won't be anyone on this site) the 6920 is a 16" AR15 with detachable carry handle. Designed for law enforcement many consider it to be the pinnacle of the AR platform if you want to buy a plain rifle. First lets look at the price. Impact Guns has them listed for ~$1,700 and they fetch approximately $200-$300 less on Gun Broker. At the last Big Reno Gun Show I saw the 6920 for $1,600. LMT offers their Defender lower receiver and adjustable stock for $330, and a 16" upper (with BCG, CH and handguards) for $675; this comes to a hair over $1,000 (before shipping) and you're getting a superb quality rifle. Heck, lets even explore CMMG. They advertise their rifles come with chrome lined barrels that have been MPI tested, parkarizing under the FSB, F-marked FSB, M4 feed ramps, and a plethora of other features that many buyers not only consider necessary, but mandatory. And the cost of a 16" CMMG rifle? $1,025 (before shipping). If you want to stretch your dollar even more, consider buying each part separately and assembling yourself. A CMMG lower receiver with installed LPK and stock comes to $270, and their 16" upper to $525. The total of these two parts: Just under $800. Let me note that I do not work for CMMG or LMT, nor am affiliated with either of them in any way. I am simply pointing out the fact that it is possible to own an excellent quality rifle (LMT and CMMG being 2 examples of many) without having to pay for the rollmark "Colt". smiliesftw.com/x/wavey.gif

This argument will never end.

I'm assuming you want one if you're asking this question? If not, no one is putting a gun to your head & forcing you to search for or buy one at inflated prices. I'm just playing devils advocate here, nothing inflammatory intended. Yes, the 6920 has QC & all the desireable features minus the 16" barrel as do a few others brands. I've used Colts in some harsh conditions in the Corps & not all were 100% but neither is any "machine" or, wait, I dare say "tool." It's a rifle with a popular name & some folks only buy to fit in. Best is subjective. So if you want one buy one at a price that you can afford but don't expect to find one at a cheap price.

Colt will charge want they want to charge & they aren't going to make an exception for you unless you find a dealer letting them go at discounted prices-rare. I've owned one as a LEO & found nothing majic about it over my other guns. I started buying CMMG & sold it. I was thinking about picking another one up just to have but I can't justify spending that kind of money on a complete gun just to have. I have more bucks in guns I've built myself combined with CMMG + add ons but that doesn't make them the best for what I have in them. It's like veh's. I'm as American as they come being a red man but I don't buy American made veh's.

Our family only buys Honda because they hold their resale better, fairly priced, run forever & have less issues. They are all around a better veh IME but they aren't the end all either. This is a free market so buy what you want & don't justify the purchase by what others tell you is the best. It's your money, it's your rifle.

My first rifle was a Colt SP1 carbine...  At the time I chose to sell it , it had well over 15,000 rounds down the pipe without one single hickup, no parts replacements or failures  It was quite simply the perfect rifle for ME!  Now fast forward 20 plus years and I now own a Colt LE6920 and I expect the same quality from it as the Old SP1....


 ITs really quite simple when I bought my Colts , I new what I was buying and I new the reputation behind them....there was not any guessing that when I decide to squeeze the trigger it will go bang everytime with out stopping...I have several frineds that are Chief Firearms instructors and will tell you with total confidence that it is a rare occasion that you see a Colt fail on the firing line, but ask about anything else but Colt and you will get all kinds of stories about what failed to fire or fired and broke..

For MY personal choice of firearms COLT is the only choice..

I gladly paid $1175 for my 6920.  I have owned AR's by Rock River, Bushmaster, LMT, and Noveske.  To me, the Colt feels better and seems better made than the first two, is equal or even a little better than the third, and definitely as good as a Noveske, for which you will pay more.

I don't know why you would attempt to save $200-$300 on your AR, when you could have the gold standard by which all other AR's are measured.  Ever notice that other AR's are almost always compared to Colt's?

If you are just buying an AR to plink with and nothing else, then go ahead and buy a DPMS.

The part I love about all of these "Is Colt Worth/Better" threads, is that they are almost universally started by people who bought something other than the Colt.  Why should you care?  If your AR works fine, great!  

I think Colt builds a better gun than LMT.


Ive owned at least 4 or 5 LMT uppers and two LMT lowers. I own a couple Colts and have used quite a few in the Army.



1. The Colt FSB is much nicer. Thicker and even ears. LMT FSB's can have thin blade like ears, uneven ears, et cetera.

2. Final barrel machining is nicer on the Colts. The machine marks are almost nonexistant and are very fine/even. I had one LMT upper that looked like there was no final machining done to the outside the barrel, and the machine cuts were deeper and uneven. Ive had a couple where the flash hiders were not indexed correctly.

3. The first LMT lower I bought the hole for the pistol grip was machined off center by about 1/16th of an inch. My 2nd one has a slightly tight mag well.

4. Colt Carbines come with side barrel sling attachments which I greatly prefer to LMT's A2 placed sling loop. I always have to take a punch and knock those of LMT's and order the Colt side sling attachment. Colt's also come with nicer plastic handguards if you arent going to put a rail on.



These things dont exactly affect the functioning of the guns and Ive never had a serious issue but I just think more goes into Colts and they are QC checked a little better before being sent out.


There seems to be quite a bit of price variance in what carbines like the 6920 are sold for. A few months ago they were being sold NIB for ~1200 and now its ~1400 with some odd balls up over 1500. I checked my reciept for the first Colt I bought in Jan 2006 and I paid 1150 out the door. The reason why the price goes up and down is supply and demand. They are always in demand but the supply isnt always there. When they are scarce the price goes up.


As far as CMMG too many issues on here to feel comfortable buying from them and lack of apparent customer service.





With that said I think buying a like new or new Colt 6921 upper and having the FH perm attached and putting said upper onto a LMT lower is a great combination. The last Colt upper I bought had 100rds through it and came with bcg and ch. I paid 750 for it. Then I can perm attach the FH to avoid paying 200 bucks and waiting. Go to dealer and buy a 325 dollar LMT lower.



As far as the little things like slop between the upper and lower that is normal and doesnt mean anything is wrong. Parts can be within spec and still have a wobble. More or less its just mating a lower to an upper that has a tight fit. Some lowers will and some wont fit tightly to any certain upper. Besides even with a tighter fitting upper/lower combo if you shoot enough rounds through it eventually there will be a little slop.

The position I see being taken here is:
"I bought a Mustang and it runs great. So, why do they bother building NASCARs for racing. After-all, my Mustang runs 100%."

Certain things don't become apparent unless you push the performance envelope of a product.
In the AR world, few companies design or test their weapons for operation on the 'hairy edge'.
Buying a brand that functions fine for use at the local range, and not having failures, isn't a testament of it's durability or reliability.
Buying a brand that is tested and designed for such hard use will cost more, but if you're only going to be plinking at a local range, may be a waste of money for you.

I use my AR for defense at home, and Colt gets the nod for that purpose. Even though my Bushmasters & CMMGs have never failed me.

I do not own a Colt. Butt I have a back ground in collecting
military fire arms . The colt would be the best choice



for a collection.(with out spending big cash for M16) Resale should
be higher then other brands.( Every collector wants his guns to go up
in value)

I got an ADS with a flip-up rear and quad rail for less than $1,200.

Honestly I can't see how a Colt with the same trimmings would be substantially better.

Quoted: Quoted: Why would you pay hundreds more for the same thing? They all aren't the same, and I'm not just talking about the logo. Free-markets are a wonderful thing. I can spend my money on what I think is best. Me, when it comes to AR15's, I'm sticking to Colt and LMT.

+1  my LMT is far better than my DPMS rifle is, wont waste time going to specifics.  Not just looks but the fitment between lower and upper.  





Whom ever stated COLT is the best and others are for poor people, do you happen to drive an average American or Japanese automobile? I bet you do! Those are for us poor people too.....you see not everyone can afford to purchase a Rolls Royce or Porsche...don't try to compare the 2 analogies, one is for poor people and the other is for rich people!   I'll give you this...... its your opinion and you are entitled to it but its not etched in stone that COLT is the best AR ever made.

Colt may have improved them but Armalite/Eugene Stoner is the original manufacture from 1954. COLT bought the rights to them in 1959 and have improved upon them since. Since you call those less expensive weapons Koolaid as in cheap knockoffs those manufacturers are making AR plateforms in varying prices and designs with better/more features they are just as good, the weapon functions the same as colt only for a lot less money, sometimes its enough to allow new shooters to buy ammo while they are buying their first AR rifle.

The most solid feeling and best fit & finish I have ever seen on an AR15 was on an Armalite a former coworker of mine had. I can't judge my father's Colt to the same standards because it was made probably in the mid 1970s and it's seen a lot of rounds.

So far the only QC issue I have seen with Bushmaster has been with carrier key staking. I have yet to see canted FSB and the lack of parkerization under the FSB doesn't mean much to me. Carrier Key staking is an easy enough thing to fix. You can stake it yourself or do what I did and buy a high quality BCG for replacement. Problem solved. It shouldn't have been an issue in the first place but there it is. It's fixed.

Dad gave my BCG improved Bushmaster a thumbs up. That's good enough for me. The old man is a die-hard Colt fanatic. He has a small collection of Colt 1911's and various Colt revolvers including a 19th century Single Action Army.

Quoted: I got an ADS with a flip-up rear and quad rail for less than $1,200. Honestly I can't see how a Colt with the same trimmings would be substantially better.

It's not, but your ADS hasn't had any parts testing, and it's not a Colt.  They are very nice, though.

Just to clarify, even most of the super high speed/low drag guys here only have one or two Colt rifles out of ten.  Even though people love Colt/LMT/Noveske/whomever, they aren't the only game in town.  Others have high value to fit any budget, but don't mistake high value for Colt quality.  It's not the same.

I bought a new AR15A2 Carbine new back in the mid '80s.  It was OK.  

Personally I don't see any attration to the 6920.  It has the short sight radius of the carbine, a goofy cut in the barrel for a grenade launcher, and a Colt trigger.

I would buy an RRA with the barrel of my choice (probably midlength light weight), a good reciever fit, and an excellent trigger from the factory.  Plus a forearm of choice and maybe add a Magpul stock while I was at it.  I would pay about $900 - $1050 depending on exact configuration.  

If I was really concerned about crack testing (which I am not), I would buy a can of Magnaflux Spot Check Cleaner, Dye, and Developer for about $40 and Dye-Pen test the bolt and carrier initially, and every time I cleaned it if I desired.

But hey, variety is the spice of life - if some people like the Colt better, good for them.

Colt is a well known name and the resale is there do to the name Colt. that said they make a great product, everyone acts like samuel colt invented the ar15/m16 some of the AR world has caught up with Colt, my first ar was an Armalite then a Colt M4 and i will always keep them, they have NEVER failed in any way, close to 6k rounds now. i also have J&T kit rifles that have never failed,and Anvil Arms products that are as good as i can find. the prancing pony is great but there are others that can compete now, LMT, CMMG, Anvil Arms all jump to mind. if you can save 400-700 bucks then do it i say, buy ammo, mags, etc..... the whole Colt thing gets really out of hand due the the snobish attitude of some owners.

I own a 6920 and issued a Bushy. I have never had a problem with either rifle. I got a decent deal on the 6920 and I'm glad I went with it.  

Some of you guys need to stop worrying so much about what name is stamped on the rifle and just go shoot it and have fun. Whether your training for "the test" or just plinking. Don't sweat the small shit.

Quoted: Quoted: ...Many US Special Forces dropped the M16 for HK's 416... Who? How many 416s?

Yo mean the 416s that got parted out like cadavers?

Quoted: Quoted: Too bad you didn't buy a Colt when I did, $250 out the door for a SP1. Of course, that was 1975, but it still shoots GREAT! Buy whatever makes you happy. I got ya beat! Paid $219 for a Sporter 1 in 1974

I paid $220 something for mine in '74'

Sorry i ever sold it now....who knew? X wife's lawyer got the Govt model too.

Quoted: I own a 6920 and issued a Bushy. I have never had a problem with either rifle. I got a decent deal on the 6920 and I'm glad I went with it.   Some of you guys need to stop worrying so much about what name is stamped on the rifle and just go shoot it and have fun. Whether your training for "the test" or just plinking. Don't sweat the small shit.

+1


If anyone has any concerns with the AR they own, then by all means buy a bunch of ammo and put it through its paces. Inspect all the various parts as best you can. Then shoot the hell out of it again. A proven good rifle is a proven good rifle regardless who made it.

You might have a Colt which develops problems after 300 rounds. You might have a DPMS that runs flawlessly for many years. Guns are made by people and people can make mistakes. The better QC of companies like Colt and Armalite make it less likely, but it could still happen. Your own personal QC and your own experiences with your rifle are what really matters.

I want to build my next AR. Nothing too detailed because I don't have all the necessary tools. I'm thinking a Bushmaster or RRA lower with a LaRue upper.