Competition Shooting is a valuable training tool for pure shooting skills....

That's why all the matches I attend at least 33-50% of the shooters are active duty, reserve, or retired military, or active duty/reserve law enforcement.  I've personally met Special Forces, Air force Para-rescue, Marines, regular soldiers, Department of Energy guys, assorted SWAT Team members, and average beat cops.

Civilian competition shooters were using reflex sights, dual optics, and a number of other things before the military or law enforcement even thought of doing so.  Civilian competition shooting drives innovation in products and techniques that are later applied to real world applications.

Quoted: Quoted: And this one time at the range a "SPECIAL FORCES TEAM" could not out shoot 5 B class IPSC shooters.........These were trained combat expereicned men....... You're joking, right? Evidently you haven't been around many SF in your time, or you wouldn't have made a comment like this.

It's actually very likely.  I've seen it happen before.  To win in IPSC you do have to game it some, but there is also the pure shooting skills aspect involved.  The people who do it all the time for fun and do not have to learn any other skills, will always be better than people who have to learn a multitude of skills, one of which happens to be shooting.

I recently shot a full-auto match with a friend that just got back from a year in Iraq.  I beat him badly by about 50%…this isn’t to say he is a bad soldier, just that I am a better shooter.  Would I be as good as him at doing patrols in a hostile enemy city?  Definitely not, I have no experience doing anything like that….I would listen to what he had to say and do what he told me.  Likewise when it came to shooting instruction, I gave him advice and worked him through some drills and his proficiency increased.

Quoted: Quoted: And this one time at the range a "SPECIAL FORCES TEAM" could not out shoot 5 B class IPSC shooters.........These were trained combat expereicned men....... I would like to see those same B class shooters go against that same SF team using simmunitions. It would be interesting to soo who "out shoots" who on that day.

One of the training schools in Phoenix does just that.  Another local instructor frequently sends out his LE students to shoot matches for two reasons 1) to humble them so they know there are people that can shoot better than them, 2) so they can understand if they can’t hit static targets in a timely manner that aren’t shooting back how can they do it in real life.

Quoted: Man, how did this go from "Run and Gun" observations and IC equipment to IPSC bashing?

It seems really ridiculous to me….we’re all Americans and we’re all on the same team.  The types of serious shooting we do differ, but we can all learn things from each other.  Getting all worked up about the way we do things different is energy directed in the wrong direction IMHO.  Take what knowledge and skills you can from each discipline and apply it to what you do.

As someone involved in the shooting sports, there are a lot of things that go on that I don't agree with, believe to be impractical, unfair, or against the spirit of particular matches....but I just have to deal with it.  I still enjoy shooting the matches and believe them to be valuable training tools.  We are also trying to get some competitions going that are more practical/real world oriented with less potential for gaming.  It's going to take people coming to them and participating to get them off the ground and going though.

Competing in action shooting sports has drastically helped me improve my shooting skills over the past 3 years.  It also helped me and others at the company I work for come up with ideas for new products or product improvements that are now being used by professionals around the world in the global war on terror.  Likewise, I have learned things from military and law enforcement personnel that have helped me become a better competition shooter, and improved my skill at arms so that I feel better prepared should I ever be called to defend myself, my family, my state or my country.

BTW Tangochaser I like the Coyote Brown furniture on your carbine.  Stay safe.

Quoted: Quoted: "Finally got our minigun mounted on a gun truck" Pic please. CD, should we post the pics from PS?   Your call, I have them saved.

Pretty please?

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Por bastards! Must be a shitty company to work for that makes you use a C-More. I still remember the owner of C-More showing a friend of mine at an IPSC match how to wedge a toothpick in the control knob so the sight would stay on. Who gives a shit about IPSC or any other shooting game where the targets don't shoot first?  If the gear works for them, that is all that matters. If the shit fails in a "game" what are the chances it will work in a real fight? I understand your comment, but I am tired of people with no real world experience talking about what they have done in their classes, or shooting sports, and acting like it is the same thing.  I guess I could have been more specific.

Ok "stickman"....I've shot people and been shot at...I have my "Combat Patch"....I take classes and I also shoot competition and doyou know what? it's about 85% better then any training I got while on active duty.  Did you know that Rob Lathem and Matt Burkett are paid by the DoD to help develope training programs (as well as do the actual training) for "operators"?...Did you know that alot of DOE guys shoot 3-gun? Are DOE guys "Mall Ninja's"?

Because you aren't good enough to pay $200 match fees and run with the big kids, IPSC/IDPA/3_Gun etc. must not be any good...

Tangochaser do you mind if I add your pictures to the military and law enforcement gallery on our site?

I think the early hand over screwed up the insurgents attack plans.

I'm SURE that was very deliberate and intentional.  

I can see them all standing around whining now:

"Pity poor me! I got all dressed up and now I have no one to blow (up) ! "





Questions:


Can I presume that those guys who bought M16s and M4s with State Department-issued end user certificates will NOT be (legally) bringing those rifles (or at least the receivers) back with them?  I presume they'll be "hand me downs" to be sold to the next bunch to come in on rotation, or something like that?

How often have YOU gotten into firefights?   And how much ammo do you consider to be a practical average daily ration given your circumstances?

I will ask the question that you're not supposed to ask:

How many people are you sure that you've sent to the great pig farm in the sky?

CJ

Quoted: Can I presume that those guys who bought M16s and M4s with State Department-issued end user certificates will NOT be (legally) bringing those rifles (or at least the receivers) back with them?  I presume they'll be "hand me downs" to be sold to the next bunch to come in on rotation, or something like that?

The way guns get over there and who actually owns them, is a big grey area having talked to contractors and people deploying over there.  Many bring their own or at least their own components.  When you're making $500-$1000 or more a day, having to leave the gun there if necessary when you come home isn't a big deal.

Quoted: Sinistral, I will be moving up to Phoenix in November for school and I would love to get involved in the shooting sports.  It is something that I have always wanted to do, but I do not know anyone that competes so it was never practical for me to get involved on my own as I would not know the format or techniques.  If you would be interested in "taking me under your wing" once I move to Phoenix I would be ever so appreciative.  I already have my own guns and gear, sans a shotgun for 3-gun comps, but I plan to remedy that soon.  If you are interested please let me know.

PM sent....for match info keep an eye on the events section of our website.

BTW Tangochaser, you're famous www.cavalryarms.com/MLE.html