User Panel
Posted: 4/17/2024 3:06:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Lancelot]
Please forgive me if this is posted in the wrong area. I just registered and have reviewed some threads from years ago but could not find info on my particular rifle. I'm 79 years old, 2 tours US Army bucoo years ago. Shot M1 & M14, got out of the Army before the M16 was introduced to my Unit (3rd Armored), 36th Infantry.
I never really had much interest in AR rifles until my son heard about one in a local pawnshop and asked me to go take a look. I did and was surprised to see the decent quality, ease of operation, high condition of the rifle. I negotiated a decent price for less than half of what this rifle is (was) advertised for when available retail. Long story short is that it is a very fun rifle at the range, seems nicely zeroed right at 100 yards with Federal Cartridge 223 Rem 55 gr, although barrel is marked 1:12 twist and 5.56 x45 NATO. Buttstock is A2. The rifle is nameplated STAG ARMS, New Britian CT,. The Rifle I've seen advertised (although no longer available) is the STAG 15 Retro. All the company info I can find shows Cheyenne WY, and I called them and all they could tell me is that my serial number was probably a lower that they sold when in CT, and all their records were turned over to BATF when they had legal trouble (circa 2014/15) and were sold to White Wolf Capital LLC. Being a Collector I try to get as much info as I can on my firearms including when and where manufactured, shipped to and when, accessory details, etc. I do have a FFL (03) C&R. Do any of you folks have a 6 digit Stag Arms lower and can tell me the year manufactured? So........what I THINK I have acquired is a serialized LOWER receiver made by Stag Arms in New Britian CT sometime prior to December 2019 when they moved to Cheyenne WY. My upper was added by someone (private individual, dealer, distributor) was added at a later unknown date. |
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[Last Edit: DVCNick]
[#1]
Is there any additional marking on the barrel?
1:12 is pretty rare these days... not sure if it would be manufactured at all outside of retro parts made specifically for Vietnam era clone rifles. Also I don't think an A2 stock and 1:12 barrel combination would be technically clone correct for anything, so likely it is some kind of mutt/build. |
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[#2]
No idea about the age of that, but welcome to Arfcom.
A 1-12 bbl will do best with 55 gr. All the newer ones are a faster twist for heavier bullets. |
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"The true soldier fights not because he hates what is in front of him, but because he loves what is behind him."
G. K. Chesterton |
[#3]
I'm trying to post a pic of the bbl marks, but in case it doesn't post the barrel marks are: 5.56 x 45 mm NATO MFR 12238 MP CHROME BORE 1-12 Also this rifle does not have a modern Delta Ring (tapered style with wafer springs). Rather it is equipped with the old style Slip Ring that is very hard to compress, even with a tool. Nice shooting retro style rifle with the 55 gr Federal 223 Remington.
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[Last Edit: M4BlackRifle]
[#4]
CAGE code 12238 is assigned to manufacturer Brownell's Incorporated.
www.ar15.com/forums/ar-15/Brownells-Retro-Barrels-Are-Back/123-707782/ |
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[#5]
It's a Brownells 1 in 12 twist barrel. They're pretty good quality barrels. Definitely sounds like someone's put-together.
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[#6]
Call Stag and ask.
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You're not the board darling you think you are.
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[#7]
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Can't never could 'til try came along.
"All welchers should be removed from the EE".-Aimless R.I.P. to the EE |
[#8]
Originally Posted By M4BlackRifle: CAGE code 12238 is assigned to manufacturer Brownell's Incorporated. www.ar15.com/forums/ar-15/Brownells-Retro-Barrels-Are-Back/123-707782/ View Quote Originally Posted By sawgunner73: It's a Brownells 1 in 12 twist barrel. They're pretty good quality barrels. Definitely sounds like someone's put-together. View Quote What they said. ^^^^ |
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Can't never could 'til try came along.
"All welchers should be removed from the EE".-Aimless R.I.P. to the EE |
[#9]
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connoisseur of fine Soviet and European armored vehicles
Let's go Brandon CINCAFUGD |
[#10]
Originally Posted By fadedsun: Who makes Brownells barrels? @TGWLDR View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By fadedsun: Originally Posted By TGWLDR: What they said. ^^^^ Who makes Brownells barrels? @TGWLDR @fadedsun I can't say for sure these days. BA was doing the retro barrels for them at one point in time. Things didn't go as planned, I do not recall who they changed to. |
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Can't never could 'til try came along.
"All welchers should be removed from the EE".-Aimless R.I.P. to the EE |
[#11]
Originally Posted By TGWLDR: @fadedsun I can't say for sure these days. BA was doing the retro barrels for them at one point in time. Things didn't go as planned, I do not recall who they changed to. View Quote Dang. It might be Luth-ar and I know it's the old DPMS crew so kind of been shying away from them. |
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connoisseur of fine Soviet and European armored vehicles
Let's go Brandon CINCAFUGD |
[Last Edit: TGWLDR]
[#12]
Originally Posted By fadedsun: Dang. It might be Luth-ar and I know it's the old DPMS crew so kind of been shying away from them. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By fadedsun: Originally Posted By TGWLDR: @fadedsun I can't say for sure these days. BA was doing the retro barrels for them at one point in time. Things didn't go as planned, I do not recall who they changed to. Dang. It might be Luth-ar and I know it's the old DPMS crew so kind of been shying away from them. Sounds like maybe BA still/again? Post #44 HERE Recent thread: https://www.ar15.com/forums/Industry/Brownells-you-really-need-to-have-a-word-with-whomever-is-making-your-retro-barrels-/333-305284/ Not sounding favorable. |
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Can't never could 'til try came along.
"All welchers should be removed from the EE".-Aimless R.I.P. to the EE |
[#13]
Originally Posted By TGWLDR: Sounds like maybe BA still/again? Post #44 -Retro-Barrels-Are-Back/123-707782/?" target="_blank">HERE Recent thread: https://www.ar15.com/forums/Industry/Brownells-you-really-need-to-have-a-word-with-whomever-is-making-your-retro-barrels-/333-305284/ Not sounding favorable. View Quote That doesn’t sound good for brownells |
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connoisseur of fine Soviet and European armored vehicles
Let's go Brandon CINCAFUGD |
[#14]
I noticed they were marked Luth-AR on the barrel so it should be marked if it is them.
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[#15]
Several posts on the gun boards stating CAGE marked barrels from Faxon for the retro barrels recently.
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Can't never could 'til try came along.
"All welchers should be removed from the EE".-Aimless R.I.P. to the EE |
[#16]
Thank you all for the replies and comments. You have helped me identify this "retro" rifle as best as we can. What I have is a Stag Arms - STAG-15 Retro receiver, most likely made in their New Britian, CT factory prior to December 2015 when their license was revoked by BATF. The reply that I got from Stag Arms a few days ago confirms that my "serial number was sold as a receiver only and they only kept records of COMPLETE rifles. The records of serialized receivers were all turned over to the BATF." Thanks to you folks interpreting the barrel marks under the handguards, pretty much confirms that the upper was for sure a Brownell's Inc. product in that it is a 20" 1-12 twist rate, Standard Non-F marked front sight base, circular handguard, old style flat slip ring assembly. The carry handle is detachable and rear sights are fine (not offset right or left).
I don't have any idea of the dates that Brownell's sold these 20" retro uppers of an early M16A1 but I'm OK with everything now. The rifle is nicely zeroed right at 100 yards and I'm running Federal Cartridge .223 Rem 55 grain FMJ. I haven't had to diddle with the sights at all, so evidently the 1-12 twist is OK with this ammo. Even with a very slight wind (right to left) I didn't see any keyholing at all. I do have some Frontier (Lake City M 193) ammo that is also 55 grain, with FMJ, BT so I'll have to see if that affects anything next time out. All in all, after years of shooting M-1 Garand and M14 rifles is 30-06 and 7.62 I'm really liking this lightweight little rifle. Just shooting it offhand reminds me so much of 60-65 years ago afield in southwest New York State with my old Savage in 22 Hornet getting paid a $.25 bounty on woodchucks from local dairy farmers who didn't want their cows breaking a leg in the fields. Recoil wise about the same, but the 30 round mag and semi-auto action would have been really nice in those old days. Thanks again for all the info. |
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[#17]
Originally Posted By Hunter2210: Thank you all for the replies and comments. You have helped me identify this "retro" rifle as best as we can. What I have is a Stag Arms - STAG-15 Retro receiver, most likely made in their New Britian, CT factory prior to December 2015 when their license was revoked by BATF. The reply that I got from Stag Arms a few days ago confirms that my "serial number was sold as a receiver only and they only kept records of COMPLETE rifles. The records of serialized receivers were all turned over to the BATF." Thanks to you folks interpreting the barrel marks under the handguards, pretty much confirms that the upper was for sure a Brownell's Inc. product in that it is a 20" 1-12 twist rate, Standard Non-F marked front sight base, circular handguard, old style flat slip ring assembly. The carry handle is detachable and rear sights are fine (not offset right or left). I don't have any idea of the dates that Brownell's sold these 20" retro uppers of an early M16A1 but I'm OK with everything now. The rifle is nicely zeroed right at 100 yards and I'm running Federal Cartridge .223 Rem 55 grain FMJ. I haven't had to diddle with the sights at all, so evidently the 1-12 twist is OK with this ammo. Even with a very slight wind (right to left) I didn't see any keyholing at all. I do have some Frontier (Lake City M 193) ammo that is also 55 grain, with FMJ, BT so I'll have to see if that affects anything next time out. All in all, after years of shooting M-1 Garand and M14 rifles is 30-06 and 7.62 I'm really liking this lightweight little rifle. Just shooting it offhand reminds me so much of 60-65 years ago afield in southwest New York State with my old Savage in 22 Hornet getting paid a $.25 bounty on woodchucks from local dairy farmers who didn't want their cows breaking a leg in the fields. Recoil wise about the same, but the 30 round mag and semi-auto action would have been really nice in those old days. Thanks again for all the info. View Quote Happy that you are enjoying your rifle! And, welcome to ARfcom! If you're thinking you upper came assembled from Brownells, from the description you gave, it was put together from parts like the lower. Detachable handle receivers were never sold with their 1:12 barrel assembly. Does your barrel have a round or triangular end cap for the hand guards just behind the front sight base? I'm asking because you may have a Brownells Prototype barrel. Photos would be a great help. |
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[#18]
Welcome to the forum sir, enjoy your new rifle!
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[#19]
Originally Posted By deadmau5er: Welcome to the forum sir, enjoy your new rifle! View Quote This and OP you might want to check out our Retro Forum for more information. https://www.ar15.com/forums/AR-15/AR-15-M-16-Retro-Forum/123/ |
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"An age of glory passed like a lightning flash. The mandate of heaven passed from you but you didn't see. Times change and power passes. It is the pity of the world."
Song dynasty poet |
[#20]
Gotta say, you asked questions and gave info about them. Even showed your research.
Heck, right forum even. Great 1st post. 10/10 please post more. |
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Martyr Magnet
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[#21]
Originally Posted By Hunter2210: Thank you all for the replies and comments. You have helped me identify this "retro" rifle as best as we can. What I have is a Stag Arms - STAG-15 Retro receiver, most likely made in their New Britian, CT factory prior to December 2015 when their license was revoked by BATF. The reply that I got from Stag Arms a few days ago confirms that my "serial number was sold as a receiver only and they only kept records of COMPLETE rifles. The records of serialized receivers were all turned over to the BATF." Thanks to you folks interpreting the barrel marks under the handguards, pretty much confirms that the upper was for sure a Brownell's Inc. product in that it is a 20" 1-12 twist rate, Standard Non-F marked front sight base, circular handguard, old style flat slip ring assembly. The carry handle is detachable and rear sights are fine (not offset right or left). I don't have any idea of the dates that Brownell's sold these 20" retro uppers of an early M16A1 but I'm OK with everything now. The rifle is nicely zeroed right at 100 yards and I'm running Federal Cartridge .223 Rem 55 grain FMJ. I haven't had to diddle with the sights at all, so evidently the 1-12 twist is OK with this ammo. Even with a very slight wind (right to left) I didn't see any keyholing at all. I do have some Frontier (Lake City M 193) ammo that is also 55 grain, with FMJ, BT so I'll have to see if that affects anything next time out. All in all, after years of shooting M-1 Garand and M14 rifles is 30-06 and 7.62 I'm really liking this lightweight little rifle. Just shooting it offhand reminds me so much of 60-65 years ago afield in southwest New York State with my old Savage in 22 Hornet getting paid a $.25 bounty on woodchucks from local dairy farmers who didn't want their cows breaking a leg in the fields. Recoil wise about the same, but the 30 round mag and semi-auto action would have been really nice in those old days. Thanks again for all the info. View Quote First welcome to the forum and black rifle disease. Second thank you for your service. I have couple questions on your rifle. Round, triangular, freefloated or railed handguards? Does your pistol grip have a finger groove on it? If so, A2 PG. You may want to try some 52 BTHPs in your rifle also. |
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De Oppresso Liber
Iraq: 91,03,04,05,06,08,09,15,16,22,23,24' Afghanistan: 09,10,11',14',17',18',19',20'&21' |
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