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9mm AR FAQ (Page 5 of 7)
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Link Posted: 2/27/2009 6:58:58 PM EDT
[#1]
Originally Posted By badazzar15:
Originally Posted By shooter00100:
are the promag 9mm mags any good



They are OK, But Colt/Metalform is the way to go.




Your 9mm mags are metalform as well arent they?
Link Posted: 2/27/2009 8:21:52 PM EDT
[#2]
Link Posted: 3/23/2009 1:00:18 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Adventurer96] [#3]
OK, I think I've absorbed 80% of this thread - but here goes...

1.  If I get a Colt magwell block, the only other change to the lower would be the bolt release, correct?

2.  A stripped 9mm upper would need deflector, 9mm door, spring, and (obviously) a barrel & front end parts, correct?

3.  Does anyone make a 9mm version of the fake XM-177 devices that sleeves back onto a 16"+ barrel?

4.  Who is the member who ramps 9mm bolts, and how do you get in touch with him?

Thanks in advance...
Link Posted: 3/30/2009 4:18:47 PM EDT
[#4]
Originally Posted By Adventurer96:
OK, I think I've absorbed 80% of this thread - but here goes...

1.  If I get a Colt magwell block, the only other change to the lower would be the bolt release, correct? Yes but you need to use mags that will trip the bolt catch such as factory Colt or Metalform.  UZI mags and some others do not trip the bolt catch.

2.  A stripped 9mm upper would need deflector, 9mm door, spring, and (obviously) a barrel & front end parts, correct?  Correct

3.  Does anyone make a 9mm version of the fake XM-177 devices that sleeves back onto a 16"+ barrel?  There is a member who makes a truer XM-177 device on the forums, I have no doubt he can make one for a 9mm.  I can't find the info now, maybe someone else knows who I'm referring to?

4.  Who is the member who ramps 9mm bolts, and how do you get in touch with him?  Adco, m60joe.com and a new runner in the 9mm bolt ramping arena is RSE Enterprises in Mesa AZ.

Thanks in advance...


Link Posted: 3/30/2009 9:02:42 PM EDT
[#5]
Originally Posted By AZ_Gun_Nut:
Originally Posted By Adventurer96:
OK, I think I've absorbed 80% of this thread - but here goes...

1.  If I get a Colt magwell block, the only other change to the lower would be the bolt release, correct? Yes but you need to use mags that will trip the bolt catch such as factory Colt or Metalform.  UZI mags and some others do not trip the bolt catch.

2.  A stripped 9mm upper would need deflector, 9mm door, spring, and (obviously) a barrel & front end parts, correct?  Correct

3.  Does anyone make a 9mm version of the fake XM-177 devices that sleeves back onto a 16"+ barrel?  There is a member who makes a truer XM-177 device on the forums, I have no doubt he can make one for a 9mm.  I can't find the info now, maybe someone else knows who I'm referring to?

4.  Who is the member who ramps 9mm bolts, and how do you get in touch with him?  Adco, m60joe.com and a new runner in the 9mm bolt ramping arena is RSE Enterprises in Mesa AZ.

Thanks in advance...




Fantastic, thanks.  I'm getting two Colt 9mm complete uppers here shortly, each w/a two piece block, and I'm looking to see if they'll work without receiver mods.  It doesn't appear like that's the case.

I've also got a spare XM-177 fake device that I might have redone to fit on a 16" 9mm barrel.  

Thanks for the replies!  I appreciate them, especially the pointouts for the members.
Link Posted: 3/31/2009 1:47:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: AZ_Gun_Nut] [#6]
Originally Posted By Adventurer96:
Originally Posted By AZ_Gun_Nut:
Originally Posted By Adventurer96:
OK, I think I've absorbed 80% of this thread - but here goes...

1.  If I get a Colt magwell block, the only other change to the lower would be the bolt release, correct? Yes but you need to use mags that will trip the bolt catch such as factory Colt or Metalform.  UZI mags and some others do not trip the bolt catch.

2.  A stripped 9mm upper would need deflector, 9mm door, spring, and (obviously) a barrel & front end parts, correct?  Correct

3.  Does anyone make a 9mm version of the fake XM-177 devices that sleeves back onto a 16"+ barrel?  There is a member who makes a truer XM-177 device on the forums, I have no doubt he can make one for a 9mm.  I can't find the info now, maybe someone else knows who I'm referring to?

4.  Who is the member who ramps 9mm bolts, and how do you get in touch with him?  Adco, m60joe.com and a new runner in the 9mm bolt ramping arena is RSE Enterprises in Mesa AZ.

Thanks in advance...




Fantastic, thanks.  I'm getting two Colt 9mm complete uppers here shortly, each w/a two piece block, and I'm looking to see if they'll work without receiver mods.  It doesn't appear like that's the case. Two Piece blocks require drilling holes to pin the blocks in.  You can get one piece blocks farily cheap.

I've also got a spare XM-177 fake device that I might have redone to fit on a 16" 9mm barrel.  .223 barrels are threaded 1/2x28, 9mm are threaded 1/2x36, keep that in mind.
Thanks for the replies!  I appreciate them, especially the pointouts for the members.


FYI, I just had my bolt ramped by RSE.  $40 for ramping and reparking.  



Link Posted: 4/3/2009 9:24:51 PM EDT
[#7]
How necessary is a 9mm upper/deflector? I am a righty, is this going to be ok? I wouldnt mind if it was throwing shells 3-5 O'clock.
Link Posted: 4/4/2009 1:03:49 AM EDT
[Last Edit: engineer2001] [#8]
Originally Posted By eternal24k:
How necessary is a 9mm upper/deflector? I am a righty, is this going to be ok? I wouldnt mind if it was throwing shells 3-5 O'clock.


My latest build doesn't have one at all.  Don't even notice, other than it looks better.  It also uses a 5.56 flat top upper - once again, can't tell once the rail was installed and the hole was mostly covered up.  Works great.  The brass is thrown at about 4 o'clock and 8-12 feet away pretty consistently.

Link Posted: 4/4/2009 9:05:48 AM EDT
[#9]
Originally Posted By eternal24k:
How necessary is a 9mm upper/deflector? I am a righty, is this going to be ok? I wouldnt mind if it was throwing shells 3-5 O'clock.


I just learned myself that the deflector on Colt style 9mms is a gas deflector, not a brass deflector.
Link Posted: 4/9/2009 8:36:19 PM EDT
[Last Edit: cyclepath] [#10]
Is there a thread on how to modify uzi mags for the 9mm mag blocks? I saw a diagram on this subject but there was no mention on how to do it. Can a dremel or file be used or is it best to have a someone machine it?
Link Posted: 4/9/2009 10:03:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: AZ_Gun_Nut] [#11]
Originally Posted By cyclepath:
Is there a thread on how to modify uzi mags for the 9mm mag blocks? I saw a diagram on this subject but there was no mention on how to do it. Can a dremel or file be used or is it best to have a someone machine it?


Best way to do it, take out your mag block, insert the magazines all the way in so they bottom against the ejector, scribe a line inside the mag catch hole and take an end mill or dremel and cut out the scribed area.  Stay within the lines, you want a tight fit so the mags will feed better.

Or you can pay someone $12 - $13 apiece to do it for you plus shipping.

I had my UZI mags done by RSE Enterprises in Mesa, AZ.  Randy not only cuts the mag slot but will cut the back of the mag for the Colt bolt catch to work.

Here's his handy work.

Edit: He also refinnishes the mags for that price.  This is how they look before refinnishing.  I'll post some pics of mine when I get a chance.

Link Posted: 4/13/2009 4:22:47 PM EDT
[#12]
After reading I still have this question.  

On Ramped or non-ramped bolts.  My understaning is that if you have a ramped bolt you can use any LPK but non-ramped you need a 9mm hammer or DPMS hammer.  Can somone clear this up for me.  Because I want to buld a lower but want it to be used for both.
Link Posted: 4/14/2009 5:06:02 PM EDT
[#13]
Originally Posted By speedjunkie:
After reading I still have this question.  

On Ramped or non-ramped bolts.  My understaning is that if you have a ramped bolt you can use any LPK but non-ramped you need a 9mm hammer or DPMS hammer.  Can somone clear this up for me.  Because I want to buld a lower but want it to be used for both.


A ramped bolt will not work with a 9mm hammer as it has a notch cut in it to specifically catch on the bolt carrier to prevent hammer follow fullauto.  Once the bolt is ramped the notch catches and hangs up when the bolt is moving rearward so you need to use a flat faced hammer.  Typically an M16 hammer with the sear catch trimmed off is the way to go.  So in your case I'd get the M16 hammer and dremel off the sear catch and you'll be good to go.



Link Posted: 4/15/2009 11:48:51 PM EDT
[#14]
Originally Posted By speedjunkie:
After reading I still have this question.  

non-ramped you need a 9mm hammer or DPMS hammer.


Is this true?  can a regular DPMS .223 hammer work with a ramped bolt?

Link Posted: 4/16/2009 11:33:50 AM EDT
[Last Edit: AZ_Gun_Nut] [#15]
Originally Posted By hartzpad:
Originally Posted By speedjunkie:
After reading I still have this question.  

non-ramped you need a 9mm hammer or DPMS hammer.


Is this true?  can a regular DPMS .223 hammer work with a ramped bolt?



The only thing the 9mm hammer does is prevent hammer follow.  You can use a regular AR15 hammer (as long as it's not notched) or an M16 hammer with a non-ramped bolt.  I've done it myself.

Here's what all the various hammers look like.  http://www.biggerhammer.net/ar15/hammers/

Link Posted: 4/19/2009 8:57:50 PM EDT
[#16]
Originally Posted By AZ_Gun_Nut:

FYI, I just had my bolt ramped by RSE.  $40 for ramping and reparking.  



Got a link or a number for them by any chance? Thanks.

Link Posted: 5/18/2009 7:27:15 PM EDT
[#17]
Originally Posted By Morg308:
Originally Posted By AZ_Gun_Nut:

FYI, I just had my bolt ramped by RSE.  $40 for ramping and reparking.  



Got a link or a number for them by any chance? Thanks.


Sorry for the late reply.  The owner "Randy" is a member here, his handle is "muta4warrior".  I know him personally, he's a stand up guy.  I contact him via instant message so I don't have a phone number or email address to give you.  I'll see if I can get him to post info here.

Link Posted: 7/21/2009 11:10:55 AM EDT
[#18]
Tag for research
Link Posted: 8/29/2009 12:58:29 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Girlieman] [#19]
Originally Posted By AZ_Gun_Nut:
Originally Posted By speedjunkie:
After reading I still have this question.  

On Ramped or non-ramped bolts.  My understaning is that if you have a ramped bolt you can use any LPK but non-ramped you need a 9mm hammer or DPMS hammer.  Can somone clear this up for me.  Because I want to buld a lower but want it to be used for both.


A ramped bolt will not work with a 9mm hammer as it has a notch cut in it to specifically catch on the bolt carrier to prevent hammer follow fullauto.  Once the bolt is ramped the notch catches and hangs up when the bolt is moving rearward so you need to use a flat faced hammer.  Typically an M16 hammer with the sear catch trimmed off is the way to go.  So in your case I'd get the M16 hammer and dremel off the sear catch and you'll be good to go.


Okay... here's my Q'....
What about using one of them there fancy trigger/hammer/drop in modules. Like the American Triggers's "Gold"
Y'think it would function...in a 9mm AR with a regulat non-ramped bolt...?






Link Posted: 8/29/2009 1:18:21 AM EDT
[Last Edit: eternal24k] [#20]
tag
Link Posted: 9/15/2009 1:53:02 AM EDT
[#21]
What would I need to be able to switch quickly from a 9mm upper to a 5.56 upper?

From what I understand, all I'd need is a ramped bolt and then when I swap the uppers I swap the buffers too. Is there anything else?
Link Posted: 9/15/2009 5:06:00 PM EDT
[#22]
FWIW, the NDS 9mm marked A1 profile lowers are now available - check out their website. I will be ordering a black one soon as I get home. I cannot say enough about their quality. I have two, soon to be three, and won't be buying anything else from here on out.
Link Posted: 9/15/2009 10:03:00 PM EDT
[#23]
I have the following set up:

Colt style 9mm block
9mm ramped bolt
stubby 9mm hammer
heavy spikes tactical buffer
wolf buffer spring

Can I use a match grade trigger setup like a Gieddelle, a Timney, or a good 2 stage NM in place of the trigger and hammer?

Sorry if this hs been answered already, this thread is a little confusing and I went through like 5 pages and now my eyes hurt.

Thanks
Link Posted: 9/18/2009 2:38:20 AM EDT
[#24]
Ok guru's, here's the problem.



I am using a RRA 9MM upper on a dpms lower with dpms hammer.  

Colt 9mm buffer, RRA bolt... HY Mag block....




The gun will fire a couple of rounds and then the trigger for some reason or other doesn't

reset.  If you re-charge the gun it works fine and then doesn't reset after another couple rounds...




WTF MATE?
Link Posted: 9/19/2009 4:33:44 AM EDT
[#25]
40-xb, I use a Timney 3lb trigger in my 9mm just fine

Bullets1st - The 9mm blowback action is really harsh on things and maybe your semi-auto sear isn't catching or holding the hammer for one reason or another.
Is your bolt ramped?
With the rifle upper open, cock the hammer and release it nicely whilst holding the trigger down. Now whilst still holding the trigger down try to reset the hammer, if it does hold it, then try to physically force it free (All whilst holding the trigger depressed) This will indicate if you have an adjustment issue with the semi-auto sear if you can force it free - the vibration of actual operation can do the same.
Link Posted: 9/20/2009 3:44:07 AM EDT
[#26]



Originally Posted By Atomrally:


40-xb, I use a Timney 3lb trigger in my 9mm just fine



Bullets1st - The 9mm blowback action is really harsh on things and maybe your semi-auto sear isn't catching or holding the hammer for one reason or another.

Is your bolt ramped?

With the rifle upper open, cock the hammer and release it nicely whilst holding the trigger down. Now whilst still holding the trigger down try to reset the hammer, if it does hold it, then try to physically force it free (All whilst holding the trigger depressed) This will indicate if you have an adjustment issue with the semi-auto sear if you can force it free - the vibration of actual operation can do the same.


Thanks, I am gonna try and see if this is the problem... And no, the bold is not ramped.

 
Link Posted: 9/20/2009 8:31:06 PM EDT
[#27]
been doing a bunch of reading, but i still have a few questions.  right now im trying to decide on a mag block and an upper.  i want the bolt to be held back on the last round.  i want reliable, easy to find mags that aren't too expensive.  

does anybody have the hahn precision mag block?  its a tad expensive, but it looks like a well made piece.  and aren't the cproducts 9mm mags pretty good too?
Link Posted: 10/9/2009 3:29:30 AM EDT
[#28]
Originally Posted By Bullets1st:
Ok guru's, here's the problem.

I am using a RRA 9MM upper on a dpms lower with dpms hammer.  
Colt 9mm buffer, RRA bolt... HY Mag block....

The gun will fire a couple of rounds and then the trigger for some reason or other doesn't
reset.  If you re-charge the gun it works fine and then doesn't reset after another couple rounds...

WTF MATE?


Had a similar problem, but mine wouldn't reset the hammer after just a single round.  A change to an M16 hammer did the trick.

Barry
Link Posted: 10/13/2009 2:21:44 PM EDT
[#29]
^ thanks.  Gonna try that and see if that fix's it.
Link Posted: 10/13/2009 3:03:18 PM EDT
[#30]
I had problems like that with my Timney, I adjusted the sear and it seems to have gone away, i will know after more mags.
Link Posted: 10/13/2009 11:40:21 PM EDT
[#31]
Originally Posted By Girlieman:
[Okay... here's my Q'....
What about using one of them there fancy trigger/hammer/drop in modules. Like the American Triggers's "Gold"
Y'think it would function...in a 9mm AR with a regulat non-ramped bolt...?
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v204/Girlieman/goldtrigger.jpg



Well I have the answere....

Works like a charm. 'Buddy installed one of them there Gold Triggers in an Armalite  lowere with a RRA 16" 9mm upper.... Frigging thing ran like a watch.. No hiccups or problem whatsoever...
Uber sweet trigger if you wanna spend $300
Link Posted: 1/4/2010 3:36:03 PM EDT
[#32]
My RRA upper assembly passes a function check on a lower using an RRA 2 stage trigger.  I haven't fired it that way to test for anybody though.
Link Posted: 1/25/2010 5:53:01 PM EDT
[#33]
Does anyone use a Geiselle SSA trigger with a 9mm ramped bolt?
I would like to use both a 5.56 and 9mm upper on this lower and am
wondering if this combo will work well. Looks like it would be ok
Link Posted: 1/27/2010 1:17:25 AM EDT
[#34]
ive got my colt lower SBRd to use with my 10.5 lmt mk18 clone.

recently just bought an armalite lower to build something like this. need to send in paperwork soon before i get bogged down with textbook reading.

Link Posted: 1/27/2010 6:14:07 AM EDT
[Last Edit: BillBond] [#35]




Link Posted: 2/3/2010 7:16:05 PM EDT
[#36]
I am building an RO635 clone as well, but bought an NDS 9mm SMG marked A1 lower for the project. Their quality is phenomenal - I only buy NDS lowers now. Very tight tolerances. My upper is real RO635 as is the stock and 2-pc magwell. I need to get it engraved and get the SBR paperwork out, but had the lower transferred as 'other' so it can be built as a pistol until the Form 1 comes back. I also bought Colt SS pins and an extended 9mm bolt release from Specialized Armaments Warehouse. The bolt is a ramped RRA with a DPMS hammer - I'm thinking this should be a good combo.

I've been thinking about putting a 607 stock on it though, since I have one of my65pan's fantastic reproductions and may never get my 607 built. Anyone looking to build a 9mm should really check Nodak Spuds website for their NDS-635 lower. they had them available in black and grey last I checked. As some Mk18s and RO635s used A1 lowers, I think this is the way to go, especially as Nodak's A1 lowers are nearly as strong as an A2 - they have reinforcing in the same areas, just not as much as an A2 so the profile is correct. This is my 4th NDS lower and I can't say enough about their quality and customer service. Do yourself a favor and check them out.
Link Posted: 2/9/2010 12:28:06 AM EDT
[#37]
i've purchased many ak receivers from them. never had a problem with them, but I just wanted colt and armalite. =)
Link Posted: 2/16/2010 11:59:19 PM EDT
[#38]
Question regarding a 9mm build:

I hope this is the correct forum.

I'm looking to build an AR 9mm pistol.  I have the lower and a LPK, saving money for the pistol buffer / tube and also for the upper.  I plan to purchase a 10" RRA 9mm upper.  My research tells me that I need to replace the hammer in the LPK with a 9mm hammer when I assemble the lower.

My question is; Once I install the 9mm hammer can I then use a regular .223 upper on the same lower....  using the 9mm hammer?  Or ––––  do I  need to put the .223 hammer back in to use a .223 upper?

Thank you in advance for any advise.

KW
Link Posted: 2/17/2010 1:48:36 PM EDT
[#39]
Yes, you can leave the 9mm hammer installed and still use it with other uppers.  The only reason for the special shape of the 9mm semi auto hammer is to clear the 9mm bolt, and the standard semi 9mm bolt is cut crazy both to be heavy and prevent installation of a full auto (or standard semi-auto) hammer.

Full auto versions use a standard M16 hammer, and seem to run just as well as the semi versions.
Link Posted: 2/17/2010 9:58:16 PM EDT
[#40]
Thanks for the reply and explaination.

KW  
Link Posted: 3/30/2010 7:50:48 PM EDT
[#41]
Does anyone know of a source for a full auto bolt carrier for a Oly 9mm system?
Link Posted: 3/31/2010 3:51:59 PM EDT
[#42]
I bought mine direct from Olympic.
Link Posted: 5/23/2010 5:24:32 PM EDT
[#43]
I'm looking at putting together a 9mm sbr to use with a suppressor.  Since spike's is selling their lowers for so cheap (<$90), I figured I would grab a couple of these for near future builds (9mm sbr) and distant future builds (6.8 spc SBR, 7.62x39, etc etc...).  I can get it built with the goodies that I want for under $900.  If I get a mag block and finish the lower, it seems that would finish it up.  

I didn't read too much on what would be needed to hold the bolt open.  Would i need a specific follower or specific mag block to make this work?
Link Posted: 5/24/2010 2:03:01 PM EDT
[#44]
The original Colt design used a special, extended 9mm bolt hold open arm, which projected forward over the colt magblock's top to the 9mm magazine and was activated by the back tab of the colt magazine follower.  Modified uzi mags have a channel cut in the back, and a tab added to the follower to serve the same function.

Newer magblock designs use a standard 5.56 bolt hold open in the lower, and have a transfer bar built into the magblock, which is acted upon by the magazine's hold open tab, and in turn acts on the standard bolt hold open.

So you'll need to have magazines which feature the hold open tab (Colt, modified Uzi, and probably some of the newer 9mm mags - cproducts?), and either the Colt 9mm extended bolt hold open, or one of the magblocks with a hold open transfer bar built-in.

To the best of my knowledge, hold open is not available for the olympic 9mm design.
Link Posted: 5/25/2010 3:58:43 PM EDT
[#45]
Ok, so it's a combination of the mag blocks and Uzi mags.  When I was going over my notes, I saw that I wrote down "no bolt hold open for Oly" but wanted to be sure.  Thanks!

There's a shop in south Austin with some really knowledgeable guys, so I'll enlist their help when getting this new member to the family.  They usually have a 9mm suppressed upper with the end of the suppressor barely sticking out of the quad rail that looks so sexy...I always have to make sure that I have plenty of self control when I'm there.
Link Posted: 6/9/2010 10:20:47 PM EDT
[#46]
What is the most reliable 9mm setup for a 16", unsuppressed. Are Hahn blocks for Sten mags reliable?  Can it be used in a Spike's upper/bcg?



I like the idea of cheap mags.  Or am I better off getting a better block and mags?



I have read through this thread but I am having a hard time figuring out what the most reliable combo is.



Thanks,

Ian
Link Posted: 8/28/2010 11:34:19 PM EDT
[#47]
Originally Posted By Twinsen:
My RRA upper assembly passes a function check on a lower using an RRA 2 stage trigger.  I haven't fired it that way to test for anybody though.


Could not get my RRA 2 stage trigger to work with my Colt 9mm kit. (ramped bolt).
Link Posted: 9/1/2010 10:35:49 PM EDT
[#48]
Per the first page FAQ the notched hammer works with ramped bolt correct? I'm just curious because that's what I have in my lower right now.
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 2:15:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: WILSON] [#49]
Hey guys, I just got a bunch of stuff from 9mmAR.com.  They have a good variety of 9mm AR-15 parts.  I got my package the same week I ordered it.  Not bad.  I am stoked to finally finish my 9mm AR build.


Oh, here is the link to their my site:

LINK
Link Posted: 9/26/2010 6:55:20 AM EDT
[#50]
HI guys

I've done a bit of searching and still confused.

I'm building a 9mm upper.
Have RRA bolt.
Uzi mags are impossible to find here, so have some Sten mags.
What options are there for a mag adaptor for this combo?

Thanks
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9mm AR FAQ (Page 5 of 7)
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